I would like to ask the community what are your thoughts on freedom? Especially in America, there is this endless obsession with freedom and protecting it. The idea is tossed around incessantly, yet I'm often asking myself, what exactly is freedom?
Prompt: Freedom is an innate quality of life. An infant is free and imprisoned by their mother's teat. An old man is free and imprisoned by all the idioms he believes to be true. Whom is freer? Neither. Freedom is a superlative.
Agree? Disagree? Why? Comment below and let's get this conversation started!
I would say that Freedom is the absence of aggression. If you define freedom as the ability to do anything you want then that is deadend thinking. I want to fly, gravity enslaves me.
Sometimes freedom is merely a state of mind. If you allow your external circumstances to define freedom then you will always suffer. Perhaps freedom means the absence of suffering. Suffering is what we do when we resist the current moment.
Proles and animals are free.
I agree here, specifically when we bring agression to its logical conclusion of fear and then avoidence of future pain.
With suffering, even riding the tide can still put you through quite a bit of pain. Then there are the unexpected shicks and challenges of life of course...Some of the Buddhists say that its adversion to suffering that creates it and that binds us to it. I.e. if we say were all about peace, were probably surpressing violence/agression.
On the second point, Ive always found it strange to seek freedom from the only place that teaches us what freedom is. Without suffering in this plane, we cant know what pleasure is. (CS Lewis is great on this in 'The Problem of Pain) Then further, without death we cant know life. We are part and parcel of this enviornment, so to strip ourselves of it seems to be to fight against it...and then to be bound again in the struggle against the flow.
Did that make any sense? Sorry for swervey rambling...
Upvoted you
Well I can answer this two different ways. The first sounds fatalist but much easier to accept and that would be that the only true freedom is found in death. Until death we are always bound by something, even if it's the pursuit of our own identity. Every pursuit outside of this just leads to some other form of bondage or "non-freedom".
The only other option I can give which is less popular and could get people to not like me is the freedom found in a restored relationship with G-d through recognizing the sacrifice of His son. I even hate typing it myself because of how much Christian rhetoric there is and how it's ruined the image of a loving G-d who let His son die as the ultimate blood sacrifice so no one would have to, but I do believe it. I believe G-d gave all of His creation complete and utter freedom and the consequences of our disobedience is pain and suffering. Not pain and suffering caused by G-d, but pain and suffering caused by the world that has been corrupted because of our disobedience. Now I know you can also say this is a lack of freedom, but that's what leads me back to the first response. If our mind is so focused on being obedient to G-d, the sacrifice of our own selfish desires grants us the ultimate freedom that obedience gives us.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. On the first point, I don't think that sounds fatalistic. We frame our existence around our mortality. I wonder two things around this though: a) are we promised death? (is there reincarnation, immortality or some other form of afterlife?) and b) if death is the only route to freedom, doesn't that become the ultimate bind?(Are we afraid of it, do we chase other pursuits to escape it?)
On the second, please don't be ashamed of your faith in the divine. I totally agree with you that there has been a lot of distortion regarding the various faiths. More a propos, there's Milton's quote "Sturdy enough to stand; free to fall." In any case, I don't have a particularly valid critique of faith. Sometimes, it feels that there is a projection of human will onto 'divine' will. I've realized that it would be very difficult for me to be a monk or totally devoted to a faith, i.e. not participate in the inflicting of pain and suffering upon others and removal of all personal desire, even if I want to. In terms of freedom, single-minded focus could be the way to go. You would have to basically remove yourself from society and be self-sufficient not to participate in the mass-corruption. In the end, are you saying that prayer for forgiveness and unrelenting devotion to the divine is the only way to be free?
This is one of the things I'm still trying to understand myself. I could share my opinions on it, but it's still not an definitive answer, the fact is none of us alive here and now know.
I can agree with that, but death would be freedom from the pursuit of death, thereby granting that ultimate freedom... maybe.
I love the Milton quote. While I hold a very high regard for my perspective on faith/religion, I don't feel eternally bound by it. I still have too many questions myself to view it as a perfect summation of my beliefs. I call myself a Christian, but it's not a Christianity like ~90% of people who call themselves such. Where most people view it as if you're joining an exclusive club, I view it as almost the opposite. My faith has made me more free to love everyone whether or not they believe the same things I do. I'd rather err on the side of being too loving and forgiving than to be too hard-hearted against people who don't agree with me. Like you said, I feel a lot of people have started projecting their own emotions and feelings onto their image of G-d rather than trying to understand a will outside of themselves. I'm a very different person than I was a few years ago simply because I stopped trying to make my religion into what I wanted it to be.
In a sense, yeah, but I believe that has to get expressed through love and compassion to everyone outside of yourself, self-sacrificial and all. If I believe G-d shows unconditional love (a Christian cliche/axiom), and I want to be like G-d then I need to be the same.
That is really beautiful that through your faith you've become less tied to your own kin and broadened your scope/acceptance of people. We need more of you!
I personally believe you are onto something. "Be the change you want to see in the world." No? If you are not particularly expecting anything in return, then I think it works. Once expectation comes into play, that's it, right? Then we're back into desiring for selfish gains, then bound again.
Thanks, I was raised to try to make the world a better place, I'm just trying to do that. :-)
This is great haha. Thank you. Got to take things a little less seriously sometimes. Still love to think in meaningless abstracts...though I don't think I'll ever reach the shibenlightment.