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Okay so thats the difference. So because of onboarding efforts from Ecency and Actifit and other added values to the Hive ecosystem, than that makes it okay to exchange points for upvotes or getting upvote just from using the app (actifit).

I'm unsure about actifit but ecency does place a lot of value on Hive with their dapp and like good-karma mentioned above the main point behind the delegations and point system is not to enrich or unfairly reward the delegators and their users compared to the rest of stakeholders.

I agree. Ecency is creating a lot of value for hive and I use their mobile exclusively.
I just think the margin is thin and tricky when it comes to stuff like this.

But I have undelegated 1k from Hive.curation now :)

Yeah but you must see that hive.curation does pretty much nothing but automate everything and collect a cut (most likely). That doesn't bring a lot of value to the ecosystem, if anything it takes value from other deserving authors since we share the same rewardpool and gives it back to those who delegate to it.

I don't know who he votes for or what the pattern is, but ye. I guess he doesn't spread it out to people who deserves it but keeps it in a small circle, I can imagine.

But the problem is not being value to the ecosystem. Thats the cut off point-.

By the little I looked at it, he makes sure to vote (20x) on users he has whitelisted that delegate to him, and when there's no such posts he just front-runs to maximize curation returns for the rest of delegators that don't post. As I said, the latter is fine and will be rendered useless with the changes in the upcoming hardfork, but the former isn't and will never be okay. It's important to make that distinction especially before we enter linear curve again with the upcoming hardfork as many will want to try and maximize their own returns that way.

I have had over 5000hp delegated to him at one point, but I didn't receive a upvote even tho I made daily posts and I was whitelisted, so dno how it works. But I spread out the hp instead.

The upcoming HF will make it hard to maximize rewards if there isn't any change it voting in the first 24hours right?