Flat Earth - The End Debate
7 years ago in #science by mobbs (73)
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I agree, very patient guy here..
If you fly at 80,000 ft high, you will see the curvature of the earth. But most people will never see from that position. I have had pilots describe it to me though.
I have circumnavigated the earth.
It took a few months, but if you keep going East, you do end up back in California, if that's where you started from.
That's a bold statement to make about the 80,000 ft considering the Jay Baumgartner Red Bull sky dive from space disproved that. At 120000 ft there is no visible curve except that which created by a lens or a piece of glass being viewed through. Look at the video from the Red Bull skydive from space when the view is from an out of capsule camera with a fisheye lens there is a clear curve but when the capsule door opens and the view comes from a camera without a fisheye lens inside the capsule magically the curve disappears. Also there was a video released a week ago of a camera sent to 100,000 ft by weather balloon and it had a lens to correct the curve created by fisheye lens and there was a very slight curve detected but not enough curve that there should have been visible at that height. The videographer went on the show the lense used still have a bit of barrel Distortion and he was able to correct that and so that even at 100,000 ft there was no visible curve.
Also your comment about circumnavigating Earth shows you've done 0 research on how the flat earth works if you go in a circle you'll continue to go in a circle traveling East you continue to travel east you'll never go off the edge the map, Google the azimuthal equidistant map to get a better idea of how circumnavigating the Earth Works in the flat-earth idea.
Right, their has never been recorded curvature at ANY altitude, even NASA tells us we should be seeing curvature from any flight at the normal cruising altitude (36,000 feet). Earth is 71% water and water always seeks to remain level. Their has yet to be any observable or repeatable proof that water can conform or convex to hold the shape of a sphere. Not to mention their are 4 separate experiments proving the earth is stationary.
Not even going to address this one. You come straight outta the 1400's...
This comment shows a total misunderstanding of the most basic scientific concepts. Water seeks to remain level, yes. But level relative to what? In the round earth model, it is level relative to the gravitational center. The water is not unnaturally conforming to a convex shape. At each point it is being pulled downward to a central point.
If you want to argue flat-earth, fine. But you should at least try to understand what you're arguing against.
as a Hollow Earth proponent, AND someone who understand how easily this could all be a simulation, why can't you all just accept that the Earth can be both flat and round and hollow all at the same time? it just depends on whose looking and how, i mean, ever heard of spooky action at a distance? Things could be programmed to hange as son as you observe them 9funny we just acept this as some fundemanetal law of the universe when no its just part of our simulation lol its like rendering of 3d shapes, they render what you look at they dont render the whole thing, just whatever the players are obeserving
anyway it upsets me how upset the anti flat earthers become...its like the flat earthers are totally loosing the debate when they get angry at the flat earthers and im constantly seeing teh flat earthers with more confidence and they seem like they know theyve already won because their view is trendong online
i just wish we could understand that if the earth realy ios round,l then you have nothing to worry about! let the flat earthers believ what theyw ant because eventually theyll get in a spaceship thankls to elon musk and theyl see the round earth for themselves! But thats just another reason we need more investment in Space and why we all need to save money so we can aford tickets to go to low earth orbit!
When you take a flat earthers to the mars Colony with elon musk it will be extremely hard for them to continue talking about the flat earth.....
they will see that there is no freakin firmament theres no fucking glass dome, the bible is cool and all but hey, come on, hah YHWH's Terrarium lol its really cool for just tripping ouit and imagination of new worlds its so cool to imagine like hey what if that WAS true, i mean you could easily see how it could be true if we were simply living in a matrix like simulation, then the entire world woiuld be maleable we could have the world be whatever shape we wanted
I just want to say thank you to @fulltimegeek for upvoting the above comment of mine and bringing the value of this single comment to just over 25% of the value of the OP. The pay out on this will give me the SBD I need to finally be able to invest in bitconnect. I appreciate the support of champions of truth-seeking such as yourself. Thank you again.
That sounds like an adventure, you posted about it?
I am sorry to the "Flat erfers" but the Earth is spherical, you can watch ships sail over the horizon, the Sun set over the Horizon, etc. Never mind all the other obvious evidence mentioned above or in this playlist I compiled and just added @mobbs video to:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdi8Vt83oIkL0DUNDozxA2tLs3Cp68CR7
Yes they do:
1 Video proving this:
2nd Video Repeating the Observation:
My own Personal Video Repeating the Observation:
My friend took that picture of my eye years ago in Vietnam to show me the cool macro lens. I liked the photo. It stands out on steemit. That's it. I mean obviously you wont believe me but if I was working hard to deceive I don't think it would be very efficient to go on Steemit of all things with 15,000 users and have one single debate about the science.
I suggest you go out in the world and actually do experiments yourself. They're very easy to do and anybody can do it. The only reason people believe the flat earth theory is because they are people who haven't actually tested it and spent too much time sharing YouTube videos with each other
Well you sure exposed me!
Next time pull the zoom lens closer on the ship and watch it come back into view. LOL.
Ever here of the Nikon P900? You can find dozens if not hundreds of videos of "ships that sailed over the horizon" out of sight, that when viewed thru the zoom lens of the P900 they sunddenly appear again. I mean either the curvature math is wrong OR this camera has magical powers that can pull oceanliners back over the horizon.
My video completely addresses this, if you look. Only 13 have viewed it so it's unlikely, given that you seem to have not addressed it at all. It also addresses the video below in great detail
No, it's just your math is wrong lolz. Go back and take trigonometry again please.
Here is a video that was just released today. Go ahead and see if you can find any errors in the math presented.
Ok I see this is a different argument about the horizon. The answer: The devil is in the details.
1 - On that very website, it says
Implying they took advantage of some refraction. So what's that? Let's find out. Take a look at this picture:
The sun here is in fact below the horizon.
Again it's easy to accuse us of lying about refraction, but then you're denying a whole field of physics again, which is absurd. You can read more about refraction here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index
Refraction is very real and substantial, which is why sailors, when navigating with stars, don’t use stars below 20 degrees to the horizon, for example.
It's also why astronomers and photographers schedule their plans accordingly. These people in the video planned their photo in order to get the world record. If it was an every day phenomenon, it wouldn't be much of a world record, would it?
You can actually use my video to demonstrate this exact photo. As stated, there is no atmosphere on Google Earth so no refraction. The mountains are accurately placed including altitude, so if you read up on exactly how much refraction, compensate by closing the distance accordingly on google earth, you would see roughly the same peaks as the photo.
The weird thing is, is the guy in the video is actually admitting that there is a curvature of the earth by showing how you can only see the peaks of the mountains. Take a look at some of the mountains, they aren't small!
Stop using reason with these people, they are not going to take anything you present as evidence because they don't even bother to look at it. They will present the same tired and completely debunked arguments over and over again. No matter how obvious it is they are wrong, they will never admit it.
I know. I'm not trying to convert anyone, I learnt that many years ago. It's just a thought exercise, something for a follow up post, something to address philosophically. And I'm learning as I go, too!
The FE is a sponsored debate by the elite. Anything to keep us fighting each other instead of the banksters and politicians...
Heh, interesting idea. But I'm a man of evidence!
It's your choice not to analyze any so-called evidence and blindly accept anything that comes from government agencies. And also it's up to your free will to accept computer graphics and composites as an evidence but consequences for such a decision are also yours. There is my reply addressing your poor argumentation. As my reply coming with some supporting evidence was to long for just a single comment, I've created this article, feel free to review it:
https://steemit.com/nasa/@jimmco/nasa-pictures-can-they-be-considered-real-or-they-are-just-deceiving-art
I'm not blindly accepting anything, that's why I set out on this whole thing in the first place. We scientifically minded people cross check things to the best of our abilities.
I'm happy to see you've done a post response about it so I'll check it out!
No videos, please, as stated in my previous post, video dumping is evidence of lack of understanding
You are a Zionist/Jesuit troll you are pushing lies and deception on people.
Good argument. I will take it into careful consideration.
Thanks for video. Babylon never went away. Mystery Babylon is all around us and most people don't see it. Great Amazin Prime movie called "In the Shadow Of Babylon." It's a sermon, but he is very good. He has another great one on the beast system here
I have a whole lot to say on it, if you want to check some of it out.
Another great video on Mystery Babylon on Amazon Prime by same person, "In the Shadow of Babylon."
Sorry I don't address video dumps, as stated in the previous post. Kind of a waste of time and doesn't demonstrate personal understanding, just absorption of what's being thrown in your direction
Lol... Picture worth a thousand words, and a video worth a thousand pictures. What do you want explained? Most people don't understand 'why' the government would lie...but most don't understand Alchemy and Kabbalism. It was a reply to someone posting on Mystery Babylon. You should look into the history of Newton, Copernicus, Kepplar. I would provide a video, but you wouldn't watch it. I'll summarize so I don't show my ignorance by posting it. They were alchemists. Know the true history, don't just absorb what's being thrown in your direction.
I'm aware of my history. Newton was an Alchemist and in that sense, unfortunately, a fool. But it was a sign of his times.
Darwin struggled with his beliefs and held off publishing for years because he knew it would enrage the religious - as in, everyone.
Just because they achieved a lot doesn't mean they were right. Nobody has actually done alchemy. If they had, we'd have used it by now.
This is based on an idiom, not facts and evidence. A picture of a wall is not worth a thousand words. Words can be far more valuable than images and videos. I mean, just compare most novels to their movie counterparts.
I don't require an explanation to be convinced. As I said a few times on here, I am under no pretense that I can convince anybody, or anybody can convince me. The point is to learn why people like yourself think the way you do, so I can get a better understanding. It's a different learning process.
Dumping a video has no value towards that cause. It just provides me with more nonsense conspiracy talk.
Fair enough, I could say the same back, "Not sure why you think the way you do...." and, "Can't change anyone's mind...". One thing I find consistently in these arguments is an assumption that people who believe in FE don't understand modern physics. I would argue that by in large they know it more than most.....which is why they reject it. Higgs fields that become 'ether' and multi-verse matrix simulations have moved the subject to metaphysics. Misinterpretation of experiments that show a stationary earth were morphed into Lorenz contractions and special relativity, where nothing is as it seems and now a select few wander through their equations trying to make sense of senseless answers. Most have neither the time or inclination to question it. False experiments like Focault's pendulum's and the Cavendish experiment are taken as 'scientific proof.' Confirmation bias digs the hole deeper and here we are, no one ever questions it. It will become clear as (meta)physics rambles on, that you will either have to believe you live in a simulated, potentially 'alien generated' multi verse as an insignificant spec of dust.....or you don't.... Nice to have alternatives.
I've objectively shown many of their knowledges to be wrong in the comments, if you have a read, for example the video about a mountain that should be beyond the horizon but isn't. The commentor demonstrated a lack of understanding of earth physics, which I enlightened on.
Thats not to say I'm a pro. but to say
Is implying that people using Google know more than those who spend their entire lives working in these particular fields which is kind of insulting.
What tends to happen is that they get enough of an understanding that facts become a little blurry and so much easier to fit into their own personal narrative, but not enough understanding to be right.
The difference between FE's, religious, conspiracy theorists etc, and people like me, is this:
FE etc: 'They don't know the answer/they are wrong. Therefore it's actually like this' and 'that is an anomaly, clearly lies made by those who did it'.
Me etc: 'We don't know the answer, yet. It'll take time but we will get a reliable answer in time' and 'That is an anomaly, let's look deeper and find out why'
The need for an answer, to settle on something, to not be lost and out of control in the unknown is precisely why we have conspiracy theorists, religious people and so on across most the globe. The more you become comfortable with not knowing, the more your eyes open to the fantastic complexity of human progress.
Everyone needs to learn from early school days that 'Googling' isnt 'research'. The internet is a wonderful tool but it's too often being used incorrectly and dividing the world politically among everything else.
This post received a 3.2% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @mobbs! For more information, click here!
You are much more patient than I am. I would deal with these people very differently.
Hahaha. I have a loooot of time on my hands nowadays
Hey aren't you that guy from the other post that got his butt handed to him on the herd immunity fallacy by @benjojo?
No? The opposite happened, last I checked he still hasn't responded to my links. You're talking about the anti-vaxxer who denies herd immunity is a real thing, right?
You mean the whale who is a highly educated man that is an anti-vaxxer who knows that herd immunity is bogus. Yes that guy.
Being a Steemit whale is not a medical credential. "Highly educated" is only relevant if his education is in medicine, biology, etc. You can choose any source you want to read about how herd immunity works.
Absolutely every general science website will tell you it's real and explain how it works. The only websites that will say it's not real are those which are not general science websites that cover a variety of topics, but which instead have the singular focus of opposing vaccination.
What shape is the Earth and how old is it btw
And you have a medical degree in what exactly
I would only need those credentials if I were disputing what qualified medical scientists say on the topic. Instead I am repeating and defending their conclusions.
What shape is the Earth and how old is it?
Is this debate still alive? I m inclined to assume that those who believe the earth to be flat also think global warming is a hoax.
Cryptocurrency tends to attract paranoid and skeptical individuals, so there's quite a following here. Some of the biggest whales running the website are flat earthers, from what I hear
Haha, the lure to make more money/get rich quick schemes will always be out there. Cryptocurrency ICO's and such are being used as a vehicle to take advantage of such individuals. However, at the same time, I have seen some of the smartest people being attracted by cryptocurrencies(e.g. Bill Gates). This is not because they are paranoid or skeptical but rather they see the importance of decentralized systems and the application of cryptocurrency based on that system.
Very informative post...I love science,specially physics.Hope to see more from you...
follow and upvote my sttems here
https://steemit.com/@physics-o-mania
"So previously I set up a non-patronising, inquisitive approach to find out what makes flat earther's believe what they do."
You, sir, are more patient than I. I don't get how people can be on Steemit and think the earth is flat. I mean, we're far less stupid here on average, compared to facebook.
I've had to unfollow no less than 5 people this week for flat earth posts. It's honestly unfathomable that anyone can be so dumb as to publicly support this viewpoint. There are like 10 ways a grade schooler can prove to you the earth is round.
Sigh.
"His answer was that I assume people haven't been. It's likely that they have, but that information has been concealed from the public."
Yep, it's all part of a complex conspiracy, lol. I don't know how these people dress themselves.
Though crypto may invite more technologically advanced minds, I'm not sure it brings more intelligent people on the whole.
The paranoid and skeptical people are drawn to this technology en masse for its anonymity, for example, the idea of being free from the constraints of the government.
It's less about intelligence and more about who you're surrounded by. If you have a wacky idea like orange is green, you get ridiculed... UNLESS the small group around you agree that orange is green and support you, and show you evidence to support it. As vague or cherry picked as it might be, it appeals to the human brain, desperate to be pleased and confirmed.
Depending on people's upbringing can decide whether you're a muslim, hindu, flat earther, breatharian or what. It's a phenomenal psychological quirk of human nature. We're all capable of it, i reckon.
What is a Breatharian?
People who believe they don't need to eat, and can survive on the energy of the Universe alone. And that they have managed to live for years without eating more than a fruit in a week or something, just for social occasions
Condemnation before investigation is the height of ignorance.
should check out holl.ow earth theory and admiral byrd, apparently went to the arctic with war ships and got attacked bye ufos and such, very interesting doco on youtube about it with real footage might have to digg around tho should be in many parts watched this years ago..
Have you ever read 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth'? Sounds mighty familiar... lol... I'll keep reading...
After a long analysis, this website concludes:
And I wanted to be fair so this website describes itself as ' We attempt to explore the mysteries of our existence by relying on scientific knowledge, and without catering to unfair or cynical criticism.'
So even a website open minded enough to entertain the idea concludes it's mythical at best. You can read more here:
http://www.gralienreport.com/ufos/the-odd-exploits-of-admiral-byrd-bitter-reality-at-earths-end/
Sometimes we need to be aware that just because things make sense, or things fit with what we want to believe, it doesn't make it true. There are numerous wild conflicting versions of this story and zero evidence to back it up, unfortunately. Though it makes a fantastic read by Jules Verne!
They filmed the whole thing.. if you dig deep enuff you can watch the film.. i my self have seen it, quite interesting doco, just because a website says somthing isnt tru dont mean you should believe it ether.. What about freemasonry , try get someone to admit all the facts on that.. Everything is shrouded in secrecy nothing is as what it seems,.. Check operation highjump, thats what i was looking for.. pends how deep you want to go really, what you thinks real ect, ufos and such men in black , the world is how much % water, and there is a larger ocean under the one we have., you seen water droplet spin in space before, it goes hollow down the middle..
I think more accurately, it depends on what you want to believe. Do you wanna believe people who have spent their entire lives working in a specific area, or yourself and the internet?
The rise in the idea that everything is a lie proven with stuff that isn't really evidence is a symptom of the internet and free information. There's more dis and mis-information out there than actual truth, and that makes decision making very difficult.
We're forced to lean back on simply what we want the answer to be.
Logically, if Byrd can come out and say the truth, why can't his entire crew? How come none of their documents or literally anybody on earth has ever managed to mention it again, with all the anonymity we are blessed with today? It's very unreasonable.
I've skimmed through all the real footage of the voyage... It shows nothing, just a boat floating around and some interviews.
But if you choose to believe there's something, then there is something... that's the issue.
I think this is a dead end thing to talk about though, unless actual evidence can be provided, which, as far as I can tell, cannot
Belief informs perception.
cant find the old footage, some interesting anecdotal evidence tho.. You do believe in aliens tho right?
I believe the chances are incredibly high that life outside of earth is out there, certainly
Ah but what did Snopes.com say? ;)
Snopes is a false flag! If you rearrange the letters of the entire website, you get a secret letter from Roosevelt unveiling the truth
... wow, word travels fast. Even dead presidents know how Snopes founder David Mikkelson embezzles cash to pay for vacations and prostitutes.
I actually didn't know that. That's pretty wild lol
I do not feel that my responses we're properly represented in this post. I encourage everyone to go read my actual responses at the link here.
https://steemit.com/flatearth/@mobbs/flat-earthers-failed
What's missing? I'll be happy to edit it
How about my actual responses and not your summarized paraphrased versions of my responses. You were able to copy and paste your questions you can just as easily copy and paste my responses.
Sure, no problem with that. I just know people don't like to read a lot of text so it was a stylistic choice, but I can put the quotes in. though I'll have to add a little more responding to the rotating thing I suppose
EDIT - Done
It is absolutely flabbergasting that people actually believe this.
Just shows that some small number of people out there will believe any craziness you can concoct.
I'll drink to that...Sing with me
Always look on the bright side of life
I would be willing to bet you haven't done an ounce of research on the matter. You just believe whatever you are told and trust the government implicitly. Just remember condemnation before investigation is the height of ignorance.
Define 'research' and tell me what 'research' you have done, I'd love to hear your thesis, honestly
Well, i know the method and calculation of how the Egyptian Greek Eratosthenes first measured the circumference of the earth. I know how early navigators took the curvature of the earth into account while attempting to travel north. I know that a craft is able to circumnavigate the globe. I know that if you go far enough in any one direction you, in fact, will never hit a giant ice wall or an edge dropping into an abyss. I happen to know that when you fly high enough in an airplane the curvature of the earth becomes apparent. I happen to know that, you know, we've been into space and photographed the earth from every angle, and not a single on of those angles seems to how a disk. I happen to know that we've photographed tons and tons of other celestial bodies from planets to comets to asteroids to stars and none of them seem to be disk shaped.
I happen to know all of that.
But here is the real kicker with a good conspiracy, any evidence against the conspiracy is, itself, just part of the conspiracy.
So if you're going to rebut with "yeah, but all of that is just a cover up by The Man" then well, I guess you got me. I concede that it is possible, however unlikely, that the massive body of evidence that the earth is round has all been fabricated by all world government for the entirely of the last two centuries or so, for some reason, and the loads of evidence that would exist if the earth and other heavenly bodies were disks has all be covered up. I suppose I cannot deny that that is possible.
But there's really no arguing that is there?
FYI, Eratosthenes measurements work for both a flat earth and a globe, ships use plane sailing, east/west circumnavigation is possible on all models, north/south isn't, you can't see any curvature to at least 70mi up with X-15 footage, images of space are CGI - admitted by NASA, and because something is round doesn't mean everything is round, there is no curvature on the ground we inhabit. None of you research it, so you throw up straw man arguments that have been described, as if no one has thought of that before. Anyway, drive on.
Two century global conspiracy by every single government and every scientific organization on earth to fabricate tons of fake information, cover up tons of real information and brainwash everyone into thinking the earth is round because......
I dunno, the illuminate need people to think the earth is round so when the Reptite aliens invade as part of their eons long war with the Grey Aliens, it will be easier to encircle and trap the human resistance fighters.
Something like that I'm sure.
Learn the history of Alchemy, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, Freemasonry, and you will understand 'why'... If man is made to believe they came from apes and are an insignificant spec in the universe, things are easily manipulated. Personally, I don't know what the earth looks like, but I know the surface isn't curved at 8in/mi squared. The 'conspiracy' doesn't need to involve many people, and the people that seem to be the gate keepers of sorts are all part of these masonic groups. You do not advance unless you drink the kool aid. Are all the pilots and navigators and scientists 'in on it'? No, why would they need to be. I went through many years of school in 'science' and I didn't need to know. If a result disagrees, just apply some principle of 'gravity' and all is well. Gravity isn't proven, anywhere. Motion isn't proven, anywhere. Relativity was born as a way to explain lack of observable motion. There are no aliens, there is no space. There is a Biblical model, and it seems to be true. That's my belief. 'Science' is itself now a religion of faith, where the unobservable is fact. They theorize absurd notions because their equations have led them so deep into a nonsensical rabbit hole that matrix theory and multi-verse theory are now accepted as reality. All of it based on one single faulty premise...the motion of the earth. Quantum mechanics finds chaos as it delves deep, this is no mistake. Man is not meant to know all the inner workings of things, but how convenient is it to make the world appear so complex that 'common man' has no business trying to understand any of its underlying truths? That it's better left to elite groups and specialized knowledge. When anything doesn't compute, just thrown in, "Must be a gravitational effect." What a perfect force. It's powerful enough to hold all water to a ball spinning at 1000mph, yet delicate enough to allow balloons to float away. Why? Because it acts everywhere completely uniformly and gives the appearance of immobility. Things are moving, but they now appear still right? The sun and moon appear close, but they are incredible distances away. Time is changing, but it appears constant. Matter is in constant flux with velocity, but appears stable. What better control mechanism could there ever possibly be? It's a great delusion, and it was spoken of in 2nd Thessalonians 2:11. They have turned this world 'upside down.' Isaiah 29:16. You can decide for yourself, but I would encourage you to study Alchemy as a starter. You will realize 'science' is not atheistic at all. It is based in deception, and the reality is, very few need to actually know it. When they turn some supposed satellite around and show me some real time footage of planes taking off at all different angles around globe, they have something. But they don't, ever. You get CGI composites of earth, that are never sized correctly to the supposed curve or colored the same. You get Saturn Cubes placed on Saturn, and Pluto's face put on Pluto. You get masonic measurements of speed, tilt, and velocity, 'sex' written in photoshopped clouds, like a game. Astronaut movements on the ISS and on the Moon that are ridiculous. The more you know, the less you'll believe.
I wish I was a whale so I could give you like 25$ for this comment. You just gained a new follower @phase11
In the US I see the moon in the sky during the day a lot. I've never heard of the moon being absent from the sky in Australia at night. I understand Australia also sees the moon in the daytime sky and it has never been absent from the night time sky here.
I'm sure it's a true statement that from any contenent the moon is visible during the day and has never been absent at night.
How is the moon visible on essentially opposite sides of a ball at the same time?
I appreciate your demeanor. The one argument to concentrate on, however, is the surface being flat. The rest is secondary. As an example, as with collimated lasers. Some of the best FE arguments are now streaming 24/7, see below:
Please pardon me for being simple, and starting over with my "stick man" representation here. I know it's not to scale I'm just trying to maybe ask my question with a picture, since words are not always as clear and/or can cause unnecessary sticking points.
I'm showing the earth looking up from the south simply because we're all used to seeing west and east in the left and right positions. I am in the US so that is why it is on top. You should be able to get a reference as to where everything is from this pic. The moon is represented as full, because it is usually full or a large portion of the moon is visible when I notice it in the daytime sky.
What I've seen from the western part of the US is the moon in the west and the sun in the east. This is visible pretty much from sun up until around 8 am in the spring. (most recent recollection, and actually I can't say how much longer than that simply because I work indoors and cannot watch the movement.) Both the sun and moon were pretty good sized so they were closer rather than farther away.
So, my question is, how can any place below the line see the moon in their night sky when it's in the daytime sky in the area above the line?
Please answer using representations like this simple one, with whatever shape you think the earth may be. What's visible or not visible on a globe is not well explained on a flat representation. unless you're saying it's flat, but I don't think you are. In checking the premise, if it's not a ball and we've misunderstood, than what is it? Neil deGrasse Tyson's oblate spheroid has pretty much the same problem with this question of moon visibility.
Thanks
The moon moves, but very slowly, and for day/night cycles, you can think of it as essentially static (30x slower than earth moving 12 deg per night). Two points, therefore, 180 deg apart and within the plane of rotation of the moon on a sphere, cannot see the same thing at the same time. If the two points are not in the same rotation plane of the moon (for instance one at the North Pole, one at the south), then they can see the same moon. You would need to compare equatorial countries, or at least ones within +/- 25deg latitude of the equator to really prove the point. Can't compare a far north northern hemisphere location, and a far south Southern Hemisphere location because of the earth's 66.6 deg tilt from horizontal...;)
I really don't know what to do with this. I don't see how speed of rotation is a factor, nor countries or tilt. And I don't understand how the north and south pole can see the moon at the same time, being on opposite ends. What does "rotational plane" look like. I cannot picture this stuff to wrap my brain around it, which is why I went for a simple diagram.
Sorry I forgot you were the commentor above. This is answered in our discussion above. In short, the earth spins once completely each day, so everyone gets a chance to see the moon at different times throughout. Should be visible around 12-ish hours in any given 24 hours in any location
Just picture two points on a ball, inside a room with a picture on the wall. If the two points are at the top and bottom of the ball, they could both conceivably see the picture despite the ball spinning. Now place those two points further down, and in a more horizontal plane, and they only see the object when they rotate toward the wall with the picture. All I'm saying (the picture is the moon). Anyway, I think there are easier FE arguments, this one gets tricky. Rest assured, the truth will hopefully be revealed soon. Simone has got to send something up independently to see this thing and settle it. Hopefully soon, one way or the other.
I have a tendency to question everything that doesn't make sense to me. Everything
Hey @mobbs, if the Earth was flat, how can the flat Earth society have members all around the globe?
Shit, you got me
Wouldn't this be easily solved by sending a few ships that will sail straight, let's say west until they reach the ice wall. If they reach the ice wall case settled the earth is flat if on the other hand they get back to where they started from the earth is round.
Apparently everyone who has tried to go to the ice wall, and presumably their whole family and friend/professional circles has been suppressed by the evil powers that be
I am not asking for what may have happened, I am saying get a whole group of people for or against the flat earth theory, publicize it all over the world and just go for it, send a whole armada of vessels say 100, something has to come out of it. That way we can be sure they made the trip and whatever they discover will be known.
Nah, the supreme powers are unimaginably efficient, I guess?
Lol you're totally right. The thing is, There's a misunderstanding of what 'research' is. These days, research seems to be 'googling', and not actually doing things yourself. So rather than even considering finding something out with your own camera equipment or 100 ships or a weather balloon, they just google 'weather balloon fake' and that's sufficient research.
It's the world we live in, unfortunately.
Here's a video about flat Earthers where the presenter (sarcastically) makes an argument on how to prove the flat Earth theory.
In case that timestamp link doesn't work, the argument begins at 9:13, and since I know @mobbs isn't liking video dumps, I'll sum it up: if the Earth is truly a disc with the center at the North Pole, then the length of any line of latitude "south" of the Equator, such as the Tropic of Capricorn or Antarctic Circle, will be much longer than the Equator.
Are people still taking about this I though these people where trolling.
Are they serious?
another comment from somebody who never studied the subject, following the masses, subconsciously rediculing the people who researched this for years (that led them to amazing contradictions of mainstream science)..
Fixed it for you
cool, upvoted.
What did I just witness? Did I stumble upon a live magical unicorn? Seriously, this is amazing!! Never had I thought I would see both globe earthers and flat earthers engage in civilized debate. You @mobbs are a rare find. Thank you so much for promoting such a thing, and thank you Steemit for providing a platform where such wonders are possible! Now I'm gonna grab a snack and hunker down while I read all this comments section :)
hah, yeah you're right it is pretty rare... though I think flat earthers seem to be less aggressive than some radical anti-vaxxers who seem to be instantly on the attack.
I've been learning as I go, which is the important thing here =D
Indeed :) Keep an open mind, but dont forget your critical thinking. "To answer before listening-- that is folly and shame." If more people followed your example, and listened before judging, we might reach better conclusions for both sides of the debate. Carry on :)
This is a good exposition of the "debate" between FE and RE models. In reading the comments, I noticed one thing: several commenters appear to believe the Moon is always visible at night, perhaps because of the common association of Sun = daytime and Moon = nighttime.
In fact, the Moon is NOT always visible at night. When it is a new moon or close to it, the Moon and the Sun appear very close to each other in the sky. So, logically, when the Moon is new or close to Sun, the Moon will not be visible in the night. You can see thin crescents before sunrise or after sunset, but once the Moon sets, you will have a moonless night.
As a rule of thumb, a half-moon (first quarter or third quarter moon) will be 90 degrees from the Sun. So, if the Sun sets at 6 pm local time, a waxing half moon will be visible for about 6 more hours until it also sets around midnight. In that example, the sky will be moonless from roughly midnight to 6 am in that location.
There are computer planetarium programs, such as Stellarium, that you can use to model these motions.
"This is a good exposition of the "debate" between FE and RE models. "
There shouldn't be any debate at all if people would acknowledge the facts:
Your senses and natural science tell you that we are not living on a spinning globe. Nobody would assume so hadn't he/she not heard of the "spinning globe" theory.
The authorities who claim that we would indeed be living on a spinning ball - despite what our senses tell us - fail to prove it.
Well, I disagree with your points.
#1. Natural science does tell us we are on a spinning globe, as this has been an accepted part of physical science since the Renaissance in Europe, and even prior to those times. Using the principle of Occam's Razor, it was easier to explain natural phenomena with a round earth orbiting the Sun, especially as more precise measurements became possible, and not with a flat Earth orbited by the Sun.
As for the senses, they can be unreliable, as Ernst Mach tested in the 1800s. For example, when you are flying in an airliner, can you sense you are moving at nearly 600 mph?
#2. They have, repeatedly. But many people like you remain unconvinced, either because they don't trust the authorities (and no other reasons) or because they refuse to question their own assumptions.
There should be no debate between RE and FE models, because FE is patently wrong.
Hollow Earth
Jules Verne
these photos are great for youre imagination and imagine the sci fi ..imagine sci fi where they begin by stating they are in another dimension where the earth IS hollow, or maybe another dimension where the earth actualy is flat and there really is a conspiracy to show images from the globe eartyh dimension LOL like they just connect to satelites in space from the globe earth dimension, or that its a simulation and they make it flat for whoever wants it to be flat and gloeb for whpoever wants it to be gopbe , just imagine u could insert mandala effect ion thre too and realy make a spicey sci fi short story that could be illustrated like youtueb short stories!
I know there a masive massive market for "radio of the Mind" where we show illustrations like a comic book but read out loud over youtube, man we could make so much cool flat earth and hollow earth sci fi, i wish peopel would just relax about the debate and just ue what we have to make cool stories that at LEAST get people thinking about science and math!
at least the flat earthers are trying, theyre better than the anti intelectuals and theyre learning about math and geometry, let em think what they want i say! isnt that akin to religeious freedom???? it upsets me how MUCH it upsets the anti flat earthers when flat earthers want to express their beliefs and views...its like, hey if someone is going to believe that, then shouldnt you acept that is their choice? Science has become too much of a religion
Again, not upset. Continue the debate in chat as mentioned above
Im suprised @clevercreator didnt flag you for talking about flat earth
You're easily surprised!
I was just being bitter :) I hope I can get along with #yunk people better i know u guys are all very worthy of taking to and id like to make a better impression and i apologize for being so spikey in the chat
Its all good, I am saving up for a ride on eithr virgin galactic or SpaceX so i can make a video shpowing the earth from space (and ill use a fish eye lens just to fuck with EVERYONE hahahahahahah )
Ah you're already starting to chill, good!