But we've had vaccinations for generations already - and the overwhelming majority of people who have been vaccinated experience no negative effects, either short, mid or long term.
But, let me plays devils advocate for a moment. Let's say that tomorrow it was proven that vaccines did in fact increase the overall incidence of autism in children. The alternative is that smallpox and polio still exist - or that measles, and whooping cough still kill infants and toddlers - not to mention the wide variety of diseases rarely seen anymore thanks to widespread vaccination.
But as I've said, autism is not caused by vaccines - nor are almost any major maladies in the great majority of people.
We don't know what the effects are unless we have something to compare to. I could care less if vaccines or aspirins are making people genitals fall off, I'm not saying that vaccines are dangerous or that we'd be better off without. I'm just saying that we don't know, that without those long term studies we don't really know the impact they have. I am saying that it's dishonest to say science has settled what vaccines do because we are not studying groups of people going without vaccines over many generations. No control group no experiment, simple as that.
Can't you compare it to before these vaccines came to be? Like when people were glad that their children made it through childhood? Or when life expectancy was way shorter? I can't tell if you're trolling or if you are serious. This isn't worth your time @dber.
We have better equipment now, better data collection methods too and with blockchains we can actually keep records. Why would we look at the past if we're not going back there anyways with the tech we have now? We should instead look into the future and that's what those control groups would allow us to do.
This is not about our perception of how things were in the past or the stories we may hear about how difficult life was. This is about safety, not trying to scare people into giving up research but actual numbers to show us the impact of not only vaccines but many other treatments.
For all I know the groups will show us that we deteriorate and suffer more without the vaccines, my problem is you claim to know this when you don't.
I wouldn't live to see the impact of studies carried out through many generations so why would I care? You guys can do whatever you want at the end but I will not stand by seeing how people questioning our safety conditions are bashed as anti-science and stuff like that.
I'm glad the anti-vxx people are looking into it because the more these discussions come to be the more it becomes clear that there's still work to be done. When you see people resorting to names to try to discredit a subject and the people talking about it, when you see they throw the same one liners over and over again, when you see they try to put words in your mouth...yeah, every day I grow more convinced that something funny is happening around the subject of vaccines and that's not necessarily thanks to the anti-vaxx but the people who've taken to persecuting them.
You can't compare past as a control group to present because there are a lot of variables today that didn't exist 75+ years ago...such as:
*Present day has a lot more environmental toxins (pesticides, EMF radiation, etc) that creates a different environment than 75+ years ago.
*Present day has better sanitation than previously.
Actual control groups would be done in present-day, with a saline solution. However, vaccine control group testing is done with other aluminum-containing vaccines, but aluminum is not an inert substance when injected into the bloodstream. It's become pretty common knowledge that those with Alzheimer's often have higher than normal levels of aluminum in the brain.
More research is needed - absolutely. The presumption that vaccines are safe because so many have gotten them without issue, is not sufficient. The VAERS data and even more importantly, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program data which shows payments for injury and death from vaccines, shows that vaccines are not 100% safe. And when you have a child that's injured or killed from a vaccine, you really don't care how scary measles or mumps is presented to be.
(I say this as a parent who is not anti-vax, but who does read .gov studies and is concerned about the money in the "vaccine game")
The available vaccines are out because they are deemed safe for most of the populace, but there's always a risk as with anything. Still, while we should always seek to improve how things work, we've gotten much better on the regulations. The vaccines that have been banned historically wouldn't even reach the market nowadays. In many cases, though, people find it much too easy to blame vaccinations without conclusive evidence rather than other risks factors... like all the environmental toxins you've mentioned. We've been destroying the environment as we contaminate all the food we eat.
"The United States Public Service Act of 1944 mandated that the federal government issue licenses for biological products, including vaccines. After a poliovirus vaccine accident in 1954 (known as the Cutter incident), the Division of Biologics Standards was formed to oversee vaccine safety and regulation. Later, the DBS was renamed the Bureau of Biologics, and it became part of the Food and Drug Administration. It is now known as the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research." ~ https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
But we've had vaccinations for generations already - and the overwhelming majority of people who have been vaccinated experience no negative effects, either short, mid or long term.
There are several myths about vaccines causing various disorders or diseases - primarily autism - but they have been debunked.: and here: and here
But, let me plays devils advocate for a moment. Let's say that tomorrow it was proven that vaccines did in fact increase the overall incidence of autism in children. The alternative is that smallpox and polio still exist - or that measles, and whooping cough still kill infants and toddlers - not to mention the wide variety of diseases rarely seen anymore thanks to widespread vaccination.
But as I've said, autism is not caused by vaccines - nor are almost any major maladies in the great majority of people.
We don't know what the effects are unless we have something to compare to. I could care less if vaccines or aspirins are making people genitals fall off, I'm not saying that vaccines are dangerous or that we'd be better off without. I'm just saying that we don't know, that without those long term studies we don't really know the impact they have. I am saying that it's dishonest to say science has settled what vaccines do because we are not studying groups of people going without vaccines over many generations. No control group no experiment, simple as that.
Can't you compare it to before these vaccines came to be? Like when people were glad that their children made it through childhood? Or when life expectancy was way shorter? I can't tell if you're trolling or if you are serious. This isn't worth your time @dber.
We have better equipment now, better data collection methods too and with blockchains we can actually keep records. Why would we look at the past if we're not going back there anyways with the tech we have now? We should instead look into the future and that's what those control groups would allow us to do.
This is not about our perception of how things were in the past or the stories we may hear about how difficult life was. This is about safety, not trying to scare people into giving up research but actual numbers to show us the impact of not only vaccines but many other treatments.
For all I know the groups will show us that we deteriorate and suffer more without the vaccines, my problem is you claim to know this when you don't.
I wouldn't live to see the impact of studies carried out through many generations so why would I care? You guys can do whatever you want at the end but I will not stand by seeing how people questioning our safety conditions are bashed as anti-science and stuff like that.
I'm glad the anti-vxx people are looking into it because the more these discussions come to be the more it becomes clear that there's still work to be done. When you see people resorting to names to try to discredit a subject and the people talking about it, when you see they throw the same one liners over and over again, when you see they try to put words in your mouth...yeah, every day I grow more convinced that something funny is happening around the subject of vaccines and that's not necessarily thanks to the anti-vaxx but the people who've taken to persecuting them.
You can't compare past as a control group to present because there are a lot of variables today that didn't exist 75+ years ago...such as:
*Present day has a lot more environmental toxins (pesticides, EMF radiation, etc) that creates a different environment than 75+ years ago.
*Present day has better sanitation than previously.
Actual control groups would be done in present-day, with a saline solution. However, vaccine control group testing is done with other aluminum-containing vaccines, but aluminum is not an inert substance when injected into the bloodstream. It's become pretty common knowledge that those with Alzheimer's often have higher than normal levels of aluminum in the brain.
More research is needed - absolutely. The presumption that vaccines are safe because so many have gotten them without issue, is not sufficient. The VAERS data and even more importantly, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program data which shows payments for injury and death from vaccines, shows that vaccines are not 100% safe. And when you have a child that's injured or killed from a vaccine, you really don't care how scary measles or mumps is presented to be.
(I say this as a parent who is not anti-vax, but who does read .gov studies and is concerned about the money in the "vaccine game")
The available vaccines are out because they are deemed safe for most of the populace, but there's always a risk as with anything. Still, while we should always seek to improve how things work, we've gotten much better on the regulations. The vaccines that have been banned historically wouldn't even reach the market nowadays. In many cases, though, people find it much too easy to blame vaccinations without conclusive evidence rather than other risks factors... like all the environmental toxins you've mentioned. We've been destroying the environment as we contaminate all the food we eat.
"The United States Public Service Act of 1944 mandated that the federal government issue licenses for biological products, including vaccines. After a poliovirus vaccine accident in 1954 (known as the Cutter incident), the Division of Biologics Standards was formed to oversee vaccine safety and regulation. Later, the DBS was renamed the Bureau of Biologics, and it became part of the Food and Drug Administration. It is now known as the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research." ~ https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation