c449882f2be62d8a36da56e28823451365760d4b
Proposal:
This proposal from the DAO would enable all Splinterlands players the right to purchase Riftwatcher packs for:
100 SPS plus one voucher per pack (no volume discount)
This would be a "Special 2-Week Promotional Sale" for all players regardless of the amount of packs purchased, and the sale would last for 2 weeks once the Devs initiate implementation (after a yes vote).
This proposal is be carried out separately from the current outstanding method of selling Riftwatcher pack for 5000 DEC, and it in no way slows down or stops the daily burning of 13,500 packs or the daily delivery of 1500 packs to the DAO. In other words, all current methods of purchases, burns, or transfers to the DAO continue to be as they have been implemented by DAO.
Current Riftwatcher purchase options would remain available both during and after the Special Promotional Sale, assuming there is a supply available before, during or after this promotion.
NOTE: All proceeds from the Special 2-Week Promotional Sale will go to the DAO Treasury.
No thanks
DAO < "Muh Riftwatcher card bag. Good to know where you stand.
I purchased 2015 packs in the Riftwatchers pre-sale, and opened them all. I still didn't get everything I needed to max everything, and I'd technically need to buy more packs to get everything maxed out, (in reference to future airdrops) even though, mathematically speaking, those 2015 packs were more than enough to max out everything in the collection.
Now, onto the claimed numbers for this proposal.
There is no logical way in which that almost 43% of all liquid SPS will be used to purchase the remaining Riftwatcher packs from the market. With additional "Staking demand" coming onboard for SPS via Tower Defence, in addition to the recent requirements for battling.
While your proposal is highly optimistic, it is not realistic.
Why would the DAO (which wants to get as many funds as it possibly can) offer a discount on something that will be whittling down in supply on a daily basis? It makes no economic sense to the DAO, and it should not be allowed to be so financially irresponsible with DAO assets (unsold RW packs).
ALL proceeds from all riftwatcher sales already go to the treasury.
I hope I have elaborated adequately on my remark of "no thanks"
I don't understand why we wouldn't try. I appreciate the well thought out response but respectfully highly disagree. There were also people gated out of the RW presale, any of these people that wish to purchase some/more would be able and since the increased demand in the Modern Format these will certainly run in a major way for sales, get leveled up. There are also people that have entered since this initial presale that lasted all of 30 seconds. Just a few thoughts, again I appreciate your input you're a well thought person in this ecosystem and am glad you're here, I just respectfully disagree the results that would be seen if this proposal was given an opportunity to see a chance.
I am very glad you acknowledge this could take in a massive amount of the loose float of SPS--that's a major point I was trying to get across in this proposal.
they are able to purchase some more - they are for sale at 5k dec if you haven't noticed. Also there are plenty on tribaldex way cheaper ... just saying.
Burning packs and earning zero makes no economic sense
"Why would the DAO (which wants to get as many funds as it possibly can) offer a discount on something that will be whittling down in supply on a daily basis? It makes no economic sense to the DAO, and it should not be allowed to be so financially irresponsible with DAO assets (unsold RW packs)." = Buy in the presale and F everyone else that encroaches on my bag, even if they pay close to 2x what I paid in the presale when the proceeds go to a decentralized organization (we're all DEFI heads right?).
Let me enlighten you, burn=0. 100 sps= over a 50% premium of what players paid in nominal SPS (many much higher with quantity discounts). If SPS is a dumpster to protect players' bags then let everyone know--the support of the comment is worrisome. I worry about this game and what the DAO is being used as. I hope the game is ready to subsidize a prize pool when the SPS airdrop is over--because the DAO funds won't last long at all. Creating a new flagship token every 5 years is not good.
In the end I guess let's hope "we find a big enough round of more suckers" to give this a shot. If this is the case then yes, SPS is far too valuable at a 2 cent valuation right now.
Possibly upwards of 190 million SPS to be stacked by the DAO, as mentioned above over 1/6 the current total float of SPS publicly issued to be owned by the DAO. Upwards of almost 6% of all SPS to ever be produced through this promotion to be taken in to the DAO Treasury, to help ensure additional ongoing viability for the DAO following the SPS in game reward airdrop.
Seems quite a small sacrifice for a single set that no one in the DAO voted for cards to be printed. I realize there is a major incentive to burn these cards if you own them so you can see a slight uptick in their value, while ignoring a massive opportunity for the DAO and those that stake SPS.
This is a major problem and why we are in the situation we are in. If this were in an in game set it makes much more sense to simply burn them and move on since the game is expected to come up with a new set roughly every year.
It's unfortunate you don't see the value of the DAO taking in such a massive amount of SPS WHILE BUYING LOW. If you think SPS will always be 2 cents or lower we are sadly in a spiral that will be virtually impossible to recover from.
As @bronko pointed out, this will lead to a massive reduction in card prices. Your proposal would allow the purchase of RW at 2.10 $ compared to the current 3.49 $ on HE, while the current EV is 3.81 $.
I see your intentions, and they are very good, but it's just not wise to try everything at the same time. We have an issue with both DEC and SPS supply and inflation, and the last few weeks have seen several proposals and initiatives to work on those issues.
If the market doesn't get the option to adapt but gets flooded with more proposals and initiatives, the results are just paralysis and shifting value within the ecosystem.
The company and community decided to burn RW and sell it in DEC to solve the issue, and this promo sale works against this decision by obscuring its effects. Standing alone, it would be great, but in the current general conditions set by the company and the community, it isn't good.
The main issue that remains unaddressed is that the inflation we have within the economy is primed to dilute value. But the excessive ponzi rewards we're handing out to asset holders of non-productive assets to artificially hold up their price (nodes, land, soulbound) are basically beyond return.
especially since all of them are close to becoming productive assets. The only issue is that I could have said the same thing six months ago; just as it was a burden back then, it's a burden today.
Neither the past proposals nor this will have any meaningful impact before we reduce the overall inflation paid out to unproductive assets, either via reduction of inflation or increase of demand, by bringing those developments on.
However, the least favorable thing to do right now is to divide the decisions made by a new decision in the opposite direction (favor SPS for RW), as with this proposal.
Possibly upwards of 190 million SPS to be stacked by the DAO, as mentioned above over 1/6 the current total float of SPS publicly issued to be owned by the DAO. Upwards of almost 6% of all SPS to ever be produced through this promotion to be taken in to the DAO Treasury, to help ensure additional ongoing viability for the DAO following the SPS in game reward airdrop.
Seems quite a small sacrifice for a single set that no one in the DAO voted for cards to be printed. I realize there is a major incentive to burn these cards if you own them so you can see a slight uptick in their value, while ignoring a massive opportunity for the DAO and those that stake SPS.
This is a major problem and why we are in the situation we are in. If this were in an in game set it makes much more sense to simply burn them and move on since the game is expected to come up with a new set roughly every year.
It's unfortunate you don't see the value of the DAO taking in such a massive amount of SPS WHILE BUYING LOW. If you think SPS will always be 2 cents or lower we are sadly in a spiral that will be virtually impossible to recover from.
As stated in my first comment I think the idea is great @cryptkeeper17, I also see a big benefit in the DAO banking as much SPS as possible.
However, as per my first comment, it is not the right time for this proposal. If this would have been proposed during RW priced in SPS it would have been a great idea but not with the last major changes to RW distribution by matt.
It's being done in conjunction and changing nothing on the schedule that is currently active, other than the packs possibly selling out and the DAO taking in a massive amount of liquid SPS. Respectfully disagree--I hope you like the expeditious release of the next promo set the company will dump upon us--it's going to cost the DAO as a lost opportunity of upwards of 190 million SPS.
It will devalue the RW packs. Sorry, I have to downvote.
It's a major lost opportunity. Sadly we are missing a massive opportunity. We as a group cannot see past our noses. Thanks for weighing in it's good to get these reactions on the record, great to archive them down the road. Also do not wonder why SPS is going nowhere. I would play the clip of yaba on a loop in a town hall replying to a question "why sps tanking and will it ever stop" And he replies "Yes it will be helped a lot by watching the rift--or RW packs especially." Paraphrasing the town hall a long time ago but it gets the point across. This set was hyped to majorly get SPS utility and value and we simply bypassed the opportunity to hold up a promo set. That says a lot and it's very worries the hell out of me. But fortunately I have only like 1/10 the SPS you do so there is less for me to lose in the end.
the main reason a card/pack or any digital asset has value, because we decide what we like to pay for it. Packs have a major disvantage that they always lose value after the pre-sale. But at least the game, so far have never devalued them intentionally. This goes against the game makers core believe, and totally against all individuals who bought RW packs from the game.
The reason SPS is going no where is because the community is full of value extractors. Not asset holders.
Yes, you are correct. I hold 4.5 M PLUS SPS and in addition, another $1M plus hive ecosystem assets (and I am holding for 5 + years), so yeah, perhaps I should understand the value proposition, and hopefully not 'looking right under my nose'.
Losers buy outside of presales, good to know. BTW the biggest value extractors are bot helpers and bots charging massive fees, it's not the little person in the least bit. But have your opinion and I am glad your comment is on the blockchain. Thanks for responding and best of luck to you in your in game ventures.
Agree about the bot farming. As you are aware we are handling it from all directions
I want the Rift Watchers packs gone, burned, and out of the store. Any packs that are sold, I want the revenue burned. So I'm going to vote against anything that tries to bring more to the market. Especially at a discount. 🤷♂
You own them, correct? Because there would be no other reason for such a self interested removal of DAO assets to return zero value. I get it you have an asset you want it burned so it is artificially inflated. The only problem that is done at the expense of the DAO. Read the comment above to understand the context of how much SPS that is for the DAO to take in. And BTW the amount of SPS taken in would be colossal in the magnitude in an ingoing quantity could pack the DAO with SPS in a major way. But we're concerned about "Muh Riftwatcher card value." Sadly incredibly short sighted and self interest that smashes the game ongoing, unfortunate to hear.
No, I actually don't own a single pack. I'm not sure why you insinuated that I'm greedy, shortsighted, or generally stupid ("muh Riftwatcher blah blah").
I have thought a lot about this. I have written about from different angles. My reason is that I am fundamentally opposed to the DAO funding itself through selling a product directly or otherwise competing with players, investors, contractors, or companies in the ecosystem. Especially when that product requires free labor to create.
It's the same reason I voted against the DAO getting rewards from the LPs recently. Principles, not piecemeal solutions, should guide the DAO.
The DAO is analogous to a government. Capitalist governments don't compete in the market by selling products. They tax for the use of infrastructure and let the market duke it out themselves.
The other reason is that I believe RiftWatchers is a stain on the company. They created minisets as a sink for DEC. After the biggest printing of DEC ever, they brought out the first miniset that didn't burn DEC!
Guess what this entire last year has been about as we've had a floundering miniset sitting in the DAO that no one wanted to pay SPS for? It's all been about burning DEC. I can only guess how many players we've lost who are sick of what they perceived as the team reaching back in their pocket again and again so we could burn more DEC.
It all could have been avoided by just sticking with the program and making the miniset a DEC burner.
Had RiftWatchers been put out as a DEC burn on day one (when people were excited about it still), they could have made the 4000 DEC and only put up 2 million packs and we could have skipped this whole year of DEC to peg BS. But instead they decided to fund the DAO with SPS. I've been saying this was a mistake since they announced riftwatchers would be sold in SPS. Even Matt acknowledges his mistake now and even his preference would be to burn the DEC the DAO gets.
Putting this back to SPS in order to fund the DAO is nails on a chalkboard to me. Burn them, burn any income that came from them. Let's move on.
Right, the first set was selling DEC because SPS was not in existence yet. Yes, it's swung back and forth. But your opinion of the DAO is well noted and it should not exist as anything more than a junkyard for in game assets and be a "lead blocker" for those that shill their assets. Well put, glad it's on the record.
The existence a new token doesn't automatically mean we need to sell any particular product in that new token. Especially when the product they chose to sell in that new token (the miniset) only existed to help them manage the old token, which still exists, and was in need a management more than ever before.
SPS to the DAO was like putting in a pool when the foundation of your house is crumbling.
I see only pack dumping.
result, Card prices drop to push sps for a short time....
Possibly upwards of 190 million SPS to be stacked by the DAO, as mentioned above over 1/6 the current total float of SPS publicly issued to be owned by the DAO. Upwards of almost 6% of all SPS to ever be produced through this promotion to be taken in to the DAO Treasury, to help ensure additional ongoing viability for the DAO following the SPS in game reward airdrop.
Seems quite a small sacrifice for a single set that no one in the DAO voted for cards to be printed. I realize there is a major incentive to burn these cards if you own them so you can see a slight uptick in their value, while ignoring a massive opportunity for the DAO and those that stake SPS.
This is a major problem and why we are in the situation we are in. If this were in an in game set it makes much more sense to simply burn them and move on since the game is expected to come up with a new set roughly every year.
It's unfortunate you don't see the value of the DAO taking in such a massive amount of SPS WHILE BUYING LOW. If you think SPS will always be 2 cents or lower we are sadly in a spiral that will be virtually impossible to recover from.
i also think that it is very important that the dao makes money, but not at the expense of other assets. i currently consider liquidity pools to be the best solution, it does not harm other assets and even does something positive for the ecosystem because it reduces sps inflation.
The DAO will always be in competition with everyone who is protecting their bag with something. Too many people think the DAO is a trash dump and less of a collection of assets to be distributed when the SPS airdrop is done. We have a problem in this game that we cannot think forward in the least bit but will gladly watch the game burn to the ground to protect a few ROI points. It's good to get this dialog on the record. I respectfully disagree but thanks for participating in the dialog.
i don't own any riftwatcher cards, so for me personally the proposal would even be good. so has nothing to do with roi^^
This is a major broken promise to the community and a complete willful tanking of SPS because of "muh RW card values." There was so much hype around this set for SPS utility. I get it, we're a presale kind of company that has massive deals on presales and then tries to "stick it to the loser that shows up later." BTW this set had a limited time/limited supply for the presale benefits. I don't remember a DAO proposal for that either. Everything that could go wrong with this set has gone wrong and the community is a willing accomplice. A lot of people act like they're long for this project but these kind of sentiments are not going to age well looking back. Glad it's on the record.
I like the proposal, however, since the pack burning one passed so easily, it is obvious that the people, whom the outcomes of most proposals depend on, are mostly interested in pumping their RW bags, and definitely not allowing more RW packs and cards to enter the market. So there is no way this is going to pass.
I made a video on this idea this week ... and no one was a fan of it
you are correct, good call @crypto-zard
Joke I assume? If not you are kidding me and others that spent tons of SPS, Vouchers and DEC later to buy RW packs.
Why would you buy a bunch of RW packs then not buy them if this is such a great deal? A massive portion of owned RW packs were bought at cost basis of roughly of anywhere from 55-65 sps/pack, plus a voucher. I get it people feel the need to protect their bags. It's great to have this conversation though and where the DAO stands to its stakeholders. Right now it's basically a garbage dump... and if that continues it's simply more for The Splinterlands to have to distribute down the road... I hope they're heeled enough financially to do so.
it's not about people protecting their bags. Not everybody is voting for their own financial interest like you. The whole reason the packs were re-priced in DEC was part of the effort to get the flywheel going on. In some of your comments you talk about people's shortsightedness and in general speaking in a patronizing way, while you seem to be the shortsighted one here. Would've been funny for people to vote the sale to go back to sps a couple of weeks after they voted for the pack to actually be sold in DEC. Hopefully by the results it seems people are smart enough to vote the right way. Oh and by the way "thanks" for sabotaging RW pack sales by putting forward this proposal. I will take the silver lining ... you burnt 100k DEC whether it was yours or not
Read the proposal. Nothing that was instituted earlier would change, this would be in addition to WHAT'S ALREADY GOING ON. On the shortsightedness... ask the devs how they plan to compensate reward pools going forward after the SPS drop is over. Let's say this proposal generated a modest amount of packs sold, let's say 200k--- that's 20 million SPS stashed away in the DAO for future use, and the rest of the packs get burned anyways (with 10% of those going to the DAO). This is so misunderstood hopefully someone down the road does something similar.
I suspect this proposal is going to fail miserably.
maybe because it's a total joke :D
Have you thought about the amount of dev work necessary to add this two-week option?
No. If there's a will there's a way and my best guess is this is minimal. Not a concern in the least bit. The game has brought in much more complex things very quickly when there was a serious motivation to do so.
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i think this would have a better impact if the cost remained the same but a promo like we saw with chaos legion for a card instead. the salty bear got the gears moving, we need another event like that and one that wouldnt devalue current asset values. while your intention was good....this would have destroyed card value and in turn rent value and after market pack value aswell. I too am not a fan of the burn and would rather see the dao benefit some way more than 10% of burned packs. I think if we see a promo card proposal and the team would agree then we'd see a pretty nice impact in regards to pack sales.
p.s. i know im really late on this comment lol
The important thought experiment is as follows:
Original Riftwatcher pre sale buyers were able to pick up these packs with an SPS valuation (at the time of the presale) of about 8 cents (some a bit higher). At that cost at the time of the presale original buyers were able to get their packs (plus promo bonuses, plus quantity bonuses) initially for roughly 62.5 SPS/pack.
... With this proposal of 100 SPS tokens plus 1 voucher per pack that is about a 62% premium of nominal SPS paid per pack, so the original buyers are not being undercut nominally in SPS.
But the most important facts that need to be understood in this proposal would involve the volume of SPS that could possibly be added to the DAO by players that are happy to spend their hard-earned liquid SPS. For hypothetical reasons if this proposal passes, and 1,900,000 packs are sold in the two-week period, that is 190 million SPS placed in the DAO treasury. The current total supply issued is 1,094,382,755--that's roughly 17.36% of all issued SPS at the moment being absorbed by the DAO. That is a massive amount of the total float of SPS as well as the available SPS not staked by stalwarts in game.
At the moment of this proposal there are 1,958,712 total Riftwatcher packs available for purchase. This number will of course decrease due to players purchasing these packs and the game burning packs day to day.
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @cryptkeeper17!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2023-08-10 01:43 UTC
As someone that already owns pretty much all the RW I need, I don't hate this at all. I would actually buy packs here, and if I'd let go of any SPS at that price, I'm sure I'm not the only one. (Yes I know this would devalue my own cards, it is what it is.)
Intellectual honesty, well put @clayboyn I'm glad you see the main point of this debate and option for the Splinterlands community and DAO.
I realize people can look at this as a devaluation of Riftwatcher packs, but you could also look at this as a REVALUATION of SPS. There simply isn't enough SPS available under $0.032 to fill the demand if this passed. (the price of RFW in DEC after discounts)
So I vote for it, I would love to reduce the supply of SPS at such cheap prices. Its like a big buyback of SPS for the DAO.
I am not surprised you can see the forest from the trees in this proposal. This comment will age well, thanks for the support!