I actually just updated it to make a smoother progression in champ while trying to address some of the concerns. The minimum card levels are not really negotiable as people have proven time and time again that if there's any room to exploit the system, they're going to use it. We've had people use low level accounts to essentially flood the pool and poach rewards by only playing against themselves, we've had people trade cards between accounts to take multiple leaderboard spots, we've had people use the market to buy/sell cards to circumvent the cooldown put into place to prevent the card swapping and many other things. Essentially top stakeholders will not let us go backwards and recreate old problems. Hopefully that helps you understand why they are there.
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How about instead of putting a hard cap on under leveled cards, we would use a softer discouragement like underleveled cards cost 2 mana more (was thinking 1 mana, but that could be misused in odds and evens). I do think some l1 legendary cards should be playable on all levels. Like Yaba. What if level caps would not touch promo cards?
okay that makes sense then. It does look a lot better with the update now. Thanks for the transparency.
then in this case, is it possible to copy the tournament system where they need a certain amount of cp of modern set to participate?
because even if this passes. let's say low level accounts just rent few max lvel summoner and 1 monster / neutral from each element and fight each other. It's still the same thing
CP doesn't really work anymore (if it ever did). Black Foils more or less threw CP out the window, even for tournaments. We used to be able to gate tournaments with CP because you could just do RF and GF. GF basically just had way higher CP than RF. With BF you can't even really make it work anymore because you'd either have to set the threshold so high that GF would struggle to qualify with a max deck or you'd have to exclude BF CP.
Why we change at all? Current modern league has already solved these issues.
Vote no if you'd like to do so.
Let's just ban the people who abuse the system. Why penalize players like me who can't afford to buy higher level cards?
So this actually couldn't be further from the truth in your case specifically and I'm going to show you why. I just pulled your data and know exactly how much SPS you're earning and how many matches you've won in modern this year. You're not very active, but if you were and you were renting/staking enough SPS to do what you're doing right now, you're earning about 0.9 SPS per win. That said for the majority of your matches you're earning less than 0.1 and you aren't very active, but anyway let's look at what this proposal would mean for you specifically with the cards you have right now.
You could comfortably play in bronze and if you're good you could maybe hang out in silver, but you'd hit higher level cards probably.
If you're active (using your daily energy) and winning regularly (at least 50%) with bracket appropriate SPS stake/rent, this is what I'd expect to happen for you personally while playing in modern:
In one season in bronze you'd earn about 2x the SPS in one season that you've earned all year so far in Modern.
If you can hang in Silver and keep up, you'd earn roughly 5-6x the amount of SPS in one season that you've earned all year so far in Modern.
So let me ask you a question in return:
Where did this question come from and what makes you think this would penalize you personally?
You're quite literally the perfect example of someone that this proposal should massively benefit.
I can answer this question. If he choose champ, most low level cards become unavailable and his win rate from 50% to 5%. If he choose bronze, all maxed out cards has a cap and equalize low level cards, the money spent on them wastes and his win rate drop from 50% to 40%. Worst thing is SPS allocation is very top heavy(champ has more than half), if you want more rewards you have to choose champ and spend more to max out deck. You may aruge it is designed to be it. but comparing with current system , this is penalty.
@clayboyn literally provided the math to show how it would improve his winnings and you just made up arbitrary numbers to argue and then said "this is penalty"...
DrStealth doesn't play in Champ - he plays in Bronze/Silver. If he chooses Bronze, where he is now... his rewards could double, if he was more active.
I think you're arguing just argue @fzhao 🤔
clayboyn assume drstealth win rate above 50%.
If he is 50% before, under this proposal which bronze legendary card max limit is 1, all his maxed legendary cards become level 1 and his win rate should drop(slightly or significantly, depends on his frequent used max cards number). Do you still think he can double rewards?
I see this as penalty. People bought what he can't use, and he was told he can use when he was purchasing.
You ASSUME DrStealth has Max Cards - he doesn't.
In fact, Dr Stealth was saying he wants to use his Level 1 Cards in Silver because he doesn't want to buy extra cards to be forced to level them up.
Stop assuming things and go look, it's not hard.
https://peakmonsters.com/@drstealth/cards
Now tell me - how many max level cards does he have? How many max Legendaries?
You are ASSUMING things and saying Clayboyn is wrong without even bothering to look.
You know what's a penalty in my eyes - people making claims and arguments without having anything to back it up.
So yes fzhao, if DrStealth uses his same cards, played more (used all his daily energy) and had more Staked SPS to maximize his returns... just as Clayboyn said, he'd make more in one season than he'd made all year.
You're upset about the proposal, you think it will penalize you - that's fine. Vote No. But don't go around saying everyone is going to get a penalty when it's OBVIOUS they won't.
OK, it is not penalty for him, it is penalty for people who hold mixed cards.
But have you thought of consequence?
He may plan to upgrade some in future, now he drop the idea entirely.
He simply has two options here, update all cards and move to next level or don't update anymore.
He will go last.
Is this good for this game or company or DAO ?
Can't people do these exploits with maxed cards too? I don't see how specific card level affects ANY of the 'exploits' you mention, and how allowing lower level cards in champ can be exploited more (again with the things you outline) than max level cards.
I love the proposal, it's YEARS overdue, but the level restrictions in champ are a bit much. I can't afford to buy a full deck right out of the gates anymore, and slowly build over time. If I buy a single bcx L I'd be pissed if I was not allowed to use it in champ.
Well Jimmy, the level restrictions are the compromise it takes for this to have any chance at passing. Arguably yes you could do the same behaviors with max level cards, but at that point the cost to do so is quite prohibitive in its own right. I did lower the Champ minimum levels from Max only to be a bit softer, but I can only push things so far before the proposal receives massive downvotes that will force it to fail. Maybe we can further soften and adjust things in the future. Maybe when a new reward set is released we can have amendments to grant them amnesty for certain amounts of times, but even if you guys aren't aware... I've been broaching this topic and trying to find a path forward for quite some time. This is the closest I've ever gotten and it's only because of the bracket system and the minimum card requirements. Without those "leagues" were never coming back. I don't think this is perfect, but I do think it's much better than what we've got right now, even if it means I personally will probably have to drop back to Diamond.
First of all, thank you for finally getting this through. And I hear you. I don't like it, but I hear you. We can only go so far with certain interests opposing. Without league caps coming back I don't think we'd ever thrive as a game, we'd just stay on this trajectory and maybe continue to just get by if we're lucky.
This is a big step in the right direction.
Hopefully we can tweak as needed so Champ isn't just a top heavy hand out b/c only super high level cards are allowed. Love to see competitive integrity forced in lol. Cheers to @captaindingus above for his Yaba card example, perfect and relevant. Super rare and hard to get, and it's going to be excluded unless you have 6 copies to combine. Champ player who pulls one Yaba from a pack and wants to play it? Someone somewhere is pointing and laughing at you lol. Hopefully we can get some exceptions or lower the restrictions for L cards at the very least in the near future.
@fatjimmy - honestly man, regardless of cards like Yaba and Grix... I am stuck in the neverending Modern Hell of 50-100 Champ.
I can't compete with the big dawgs, I can't drop to diamond and I am stuck getting farmed by Scholars and then curb stomped by a bot...
If we make the bots easier - "THEN SCHOLARS WILL FARM THEM"... THEY ALREADY DO... but anyways...
So I can FINALLY DROP TO DIAMOND to get back to a decently high Leaderboard spot... (although lately with Esc I'm higher than ever... womp womp)...
I'd trade losing a few cards for a much more level playing field opportunity.
For right now, I think this is ok. I think the better solution has been presented and it's the rShares Modifier.
However, I think the rShares Modifier should be more punishing...
1 Underlevel Card = -50% rShares
2+ Underlever Cards = -100% rShares
Now... anyone can play their L1 cards in Champ... but why would you when it nukes your Return...
Well - if that card would turn the L into a W... 50% of something is way better than 100% of nothing!