Since the recent SteemIt, Inc announcement I've seen a lot of discussion around whether or not steemit.com should start selling advertising. I absolutely think they should sell advertising, and I think every other Steem-based site or app should too, because I believe that as long as it's done correctly it could skyrocket the value of the STEEM token. Allow me to convince you.
I hear many people say that Steem-based sites should not sell advertising because Steem is supposed to be a new way to monetize content online without ads. I don't think that's true, however. I think the monetization method on Steem is exactly the same as on traditional websites (i.e. advertising), but it's how that ad money gets distributed that's different.
To use Facebook as an example, though most any site will do, people provide the content for free, and Facebook gets all of the advertising dollars which is made possible by the content everyone freely contributes. The brilliance and innovation of the Steem platform, is that the advertising dollars can instead go to the people who are actually providing the content and the value that the advertisers are seeking.
Advertising is still the method of monetization, but now the users - the content producers, the readers, the curators - are the ones benefiting from it. This means that, as users of Steem-based websites, we should want advertising. We should appreciate and support companies and brands that choose to advertise on Steem because they are literally paying us for the privilege of being able to have us see their message.
Let's say SteemIt, Inc starts selling advertising on steemit.com. All ads must be paid for using STEEM, so that means that every dollar spent on ads is a dollar spent purchasing STEEM, and increasing the value of the asset we all own. I would even go so far as to show a message with all of the ads saying something like "Trezor, Inc is running a 300,000 STEEM campaign to bring you this message...".
I would be so freakin' excited to see something like that on any Steem-based website. Not only that, but I would be so appreciative of the fact that Trezor (in this random example) has chosen to advertise here and increase the value of my STEEM that I would do whatever I can to support them - i.e. buy their product - so that they would continue to advertise on Steem-based sites and continue to put more money into STEEM.
So now we have a situation where instead of users being annoyed at the ads, they love and welcome them, because every ad dollar spent is increasing the value of the tokens we all own and earn on the Steem platform. This is a dream scenario for advertisers as well, and I expect that if this concept is properly messaged to the Steem userbase then ads would perform significantly better for advertisers on Steem-based sites than anywhere else on the internet.
If we, as a community, not only allow for advertising to be shown on Steem-based sites, but support and embrace it, then we would create a wonderful, virtuous cycle that continually brings in more money and increases the value of the STEEM token.
I don't really see SteemIt, Inc doing that, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean that another Steem-based site can't do it. I would love to see steempeak/busy/dtube/vimm/etc go out and get that very first advertiser, and then rally the Steem community to go make sure they have the best freakin' ad campaign performance they've ever seen, and try to jump-start that value cycle I mentioned.
To summarize - if it's made abundantly clear to the userbase how the ads being shown benefit them, then they should be excited for, and supportive of the ads which, as I said, is a dream scenario for advertisers, and will help bring a lot of ad dollars into the platform and into the STEEM token.
Have I convinced you? Or would you still prefer to have no ads and no actual way to monetize content outside of hoping people blindly speculate on the future price of the token? Let me know in the comments!
I completely agree with the proposal. And I will go one step ahead to suggest that any steemian be allowed to use that add space created on Steemit or other apps by simply paying the necessary fee in either Steem or fiat. That would help us increase the sales force across the globe fighting for the limited ad space.
Time has come that all dapp owners start using their property to earn from ads.
Yes as of now audience is small but this a typical business issue which with continuous efforts will be addressed.
whats the story with the voting bot on this comment????????
His own bs bot. Guess nobody reads his garbage and now he's taking delegator's SP to vote for himself.
yep, pure bitbot abuse at it highest
Flagged for bidbot abuse @steemflagrewards
Needs to be two words @juicyjules0202 for the bot to recognize the bid bot abuse category. Please, update and I'll approve this one.
I can't wait to see Steemmonsters ads on all the front ends :D
Ha, i thought of writing something like "steemmonsters will buy the first ads", but i'm not really sure that would be a good use of money since we use our VP to get everyone else to advertise on Steem for us!
The other thing to consider is - with a limited userbase of ~60k per day, (and I'm not sure how many of these are bots) - what sort of Advertiser would want to throw their money at this? (Outside of the crypto-sphere, that is)
Well it's a small but very targeted audience, and even just inside the crypto-sphere there's plenty of advertising money being thrown around that would be perfect for the Steem audience.
Advertising is one thing. Another is corporate accounts. I'd be overjoyed if some camera manufacturer organized a photography contest and rented SP to reward the contestants one day. That would take an established community of photographers here with sufficient numbers centered around some great photography app. The community building aspect of Steem is perfect for targeting ads.
This is exactly what the @oracle-d project is trying to sell. That's the real value behind holding Steem Power.
I started playing that, or, trying to, still trying to figure it out, when @merlin7 mentioned it to me with one of her micropayments.
They kind-of already have advertising. They'd just need to find a way to give "Promoted" posts more visibility. Right now, promoting a post is basically just a waste of SBD.
Well as far as I'm concerned, useless advertising is about the same as not having it at all :-)
Yeah, but that's about placement. If someone were to post promoted posts in their own special screen real estate where they gained extra visibility, it wouldn't be useless any more. Heck, you could even give them a slot where you rotate through them in a prominent location on the steemmonsters page. ; -)
Im for it, as long as there is no penis enlargement ads! hahaha
You don't think such ads would not be targeted right in your case?
If they made it easier for me to buy them with steem, then I would be steem broke! :)
:)
If they're buying STEEM i'm all for it!
I hear that!
"I would even go so far as to show a message with all of the ads saying something like "Trezor, Inc is running a 300,000 STEEM campaign to bring you this message...". "
Wow. This sounds like a great idea actually. Maybe it will become reality one day.
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you are right. I was wondering since a long time , why steemit doesnt use ads. Because if you dont sell something you need to advertise to finance a website in a longrun.
im 100% with you!
But the advertisment must payed in Steem and not in Fiat. Otherwise it shows nobody need steem :)
Btw i won against you in Steemmonsters 5 min ago :) https://steemmonsters.com?battle=7d0cd01fa3046c75dc6d1d4c82ca8bcedcd6e614&ref=freddio
See you on Battles
Edit:
I think a Company cant make money only sell there shares. And this is what Steemit does, They Finance all only Sell Steem.
Would a other Company do this outside the Crypto world, nobody would pay a Single Cent.
You don't have to convince me. That's what I've been saying for months now. You just put it more eloquently than I have.
Speculation can work for a while but every single speculative bubble in history has ended in a crash. It would be stupid to rely on speculation feeding us forever. It is symptomatic of belonging to the coddled generation to think Someone Else is going to keep supporting them no matter what. We can embrace the original value proposition of Steem willingly or be obstinate and bring this platform to the bring of death before coming around to a more realistic point of view.
Yes, I guess to make a sustainable buisness out of steemit.inc they need to sell ad space. In your example with the 300K ad revenue the biggest portion would go to Steemit.inc to finance there buisness costs and therefore is no direct benefit for Steem Price.
Because the Steem get bought for the Ad and than sold again for the buisness costs. But if a portion of the revenue would go to some kind of Steem buy back program, Steem-burning pool or whatever that boosts price of Steem, than that would be a great benefit for all of us, and makes clickin ads more enjoyable.
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Well Steemit, Inc already sells a ton of STEEM on a regular basis to fund their business operations. So if they were to even earn USD from advertising then they wouldn't need to sell as much, or maybe any, STEEM which would also really help the price by reducing supply on the market. At the end of the day, money coming in to the Steem ecosystem will help the token price one way or another.
I agree, good point. I hope that the right decisions will be implemented soon!
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I think that will also make more people willing to join steemit as it would become known as the platform that is truly able to self sustain by having other sources of revenue...That has got to attract savvy investors.
Totally with yo, I already made an article a long time ago about where the money in steemit is coming from and read a lot about how we are printing money and hoping that investors come in. So Steem need a lot of other revenue streams. The only thing that comes to mind is Steem plus the extension. They are already adding things over the ui in steemit. Maybe we could opt in ads and get paid for it in steem. It's far fetched :D
for ads on Steemit.com over steemplus extension.
Edit 1 : as a first test like proof of concept ?
That's actually a really good idea! I'll mention it to @stoodkev.
claps
Thank you for being a voice of reason here...
This posts deserves 100% of my upvote.
It doesn't make sense to cut off costs while you can sell ads here and earn money.
All of this doesn't separate us from the goals of the Steem blockchain.
Keep up the good job man!
upvote for visibility
How about creating a new dapp where companies can put their advertisements and give the benefit directly to the end users ? They are now spending millions in marketing , so why not build something, which could bring direct consumers to them, and pass the benefit to the consumer. That way we will have more and more consumers, and that will ultimately bring in more companies or advertisers.
I think adding a little add revenue would be a great way to inject a little money into the Steem ecosystem. I think the requirement to pay in steem is essential however.
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Selling enough advertising to employ someone to operate it is already quite difficult. Looking at Facebook as an example is a little off because Facebook is ridiculously huge. I doubt very much there is enough desire to advertise to Steemit users by paying in Steem to justify a front-end paying the costs of running the ads in the first place.
Even if you allowed paying in fiat, so advertisers who weren't used to Steem already could come in, a small social media site whose traffic is declining isn't a terribly attractive market. So it's hard for me to see how this covers expenses, much less drives revenue.
I do advertising for a living...and you are dead wrong. Do you know even know how many pageviews Steemit.com has? It's in the millions per month through search engine alone at this point, a very targeted audience of people who live primarily in the US, Europe and Korea.
Great point @cryptoctopus!!!
I'm glad to see a marketing professional confirm that. Most active Steemians have produced a shitload of keywords for advertisers to use for targeting.
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Thank you, @tcpolymath. I'm not sure why so many people think advertising will save STEEM, when it's not even STEEM we're talking about, but Steemit Inc., which, as far as I know, despite their currently taking questions and discussing things like we're all suddenly a part of their think tank, is still a privately owned and ran business, which, if they did sell advertising (and managed to make anything out of it), would be under no obligation whatsoever to share it with STEEM holders.
Plus, ads that are worth their money require the ability to target, which means tracking people's data, which is part of the reason why we're not on Facebook or Twitter, right? So, why would we want that?
Hey Glen
Just a note on your final point. The data being tracked would unlikely be personal as there is no requirement here to add any of those details. I suspect it would be targeted advertising, based on the topics you up-vote, the tags you use, the places in which you leave comments - this is all open and freely available for anyone to compile.
I watched a presentation at SteemFest, the final one of the week where a chap was discussing advertising. If I remember correctly, they are working on a tool similar to how you set up an advert on Facebook. (Goes to hunt for presentations...) Waivio, that's the app. I have no idea where they are up to...
EDIT: Found the presentaton
https://steemit.com/waivio/@grampo/steemfest-growing-steem-ecosystem
Okay, so I watched the Waivio presentation. Whoever is going to push this needs to get away from using the term advertising, and use the guy's term, attention trading. And then explain that it's not for Steemit, but for STEEM. Because everything he said had nothing to do with traditional clickable display advertising on a site.
I'm glad I watched it because I really didn't want to have to argue with you. :)
Worth a watch if only for that term, which I'd forgotten was there.
So you are OK with me looking at the categories you post in, comment in, vote on, at what time, and performing a full text search of everything you've written, as long as I call it Attention Trading when I present it to potential advertisers? :D
Just read your post on this topic. I'm glad I ended up waiting before answering this one.
The answer is, no, not really, I'm not, but hey, in some forms, it's already happening, and you've been doing it by pulling information off the blockchain.
That said, I suppose we could call everything we do here advertising if we wanted to go that route. It's all business and there's not really any deep connection going on. STEEMfest and other STEEM meetups are just calculated pressing of the flesh—everyone wants attention and everyone wants a piece of the Steemit Golden Goose (delegation for projects).
If that's truly all this is, then I probably should get out now. I ran a newspaper business for 15 years. I sold advertising. I've had blogs off and on. I've tried Google ads, affiliate links, trying to sell products, etc. None of it really worked for me.
Then I came here, where there was nothing between me and the buyer, which actually wasn't really a buyer but a reward pool allocator who really wasn't spending anything, in fact, they were eventually being paid something to say I should be paid something.
But somehow that works for me. I've not earned a lot, but I've earned a hundred times more, at least, than I ever did doing any other thing on line. Even at 34 cent STEEM.
Businesses, however, are going to want results. A lot of people here will need to be willing to spend money for any of this to truly work, not just get rewarded for looking at a video or whatever offers there might be. But since STEEM powered up is our only means without fiat or other crypto somewhere to make more STEEM, and since the vast majority of us here are minnows and red fishes, that means the folks that are going to need to be doing the majority of the buying are larger dolphins on up, because they will be the ones who will be able to afford 150 STEEM sports shoes (which is probably a bargain at today's prices).
And therein lies the rub. We start spending STEEM, we have less to make it with. We don't spend the STEEM, the businesses won't stay in business, at least not on the blockchain.
Fyrstikken suggested a big old banner ad at the top of the page for $20,000. I liked his other two ideas, so I shouldn't be too harsh on this third one, but there's no way anyone is going to pay for that, let alone 365 of them, or however many more you will need to meet his $7.3 million. Banner advertising doesn't work the same way as it does in a newspaper, or on television. There's cost per click, and there's cost per million, and there's cost per action. The smart business isn't going to go CPC or cpm, they're going to go per action or purchase, like an affiliate link.
And then someone is going to need to sell these ads. Someone who knows how. Someone or someones who won't come cheap, and if they're smart, they won't get paid on commission.
I don't know. We've got this blockchain, we've got this inflationary setup, and we've got consumers. Waivio is a way that at least sounds like it's in keeping with that, but none of this instantly does anything for STEEM. And while we're tied to the broader market, we're still going to go up and mostly down, apparently, with it.
My thoughts. Probably should stop now and get on with other things. :)
Remember when...?
https://steemit.com/steem/@ats-david/we-need-advertising-revenue-you-say
Most posts I read have some sort of advertising already baked inside of it. A community, a dapp, eshop, a new crypto, or additional ways to support the author. After a while I start to unfollow authors from my feed who changed their content to make more money reposting advertising than providing new information I enjoy, free of these extra ads and sales offers. It is so hard to know who to trust, unless they show they have nothing up their sleeve.
When I joined steemit I was so happy to not have ads forced onto my feeds by big businesses, and I hope it stays that way. I think it is integral to a decentralized blog platform. Of course Steemit and all the other dapps can choose to sell ad space if that is their decision because they own the web domain and servers we are granted access to.
It is very hard to find a monetized and uncensored blogging community free of ads and spam that provides useful content. Freedom. That is why I joined. Earning crypto was an added perk to me, not the primary goal. Change the recipe for success, and the users may not stay.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. I disagree that this would appeal to everyone, yet I can see the obvious financial benefits.
I'm glad this idea is gaining some traction; it needed a crisis, but sometimes it clears the mind!
This either needs coding into a post - which would show on all platforms - or into a platform UI.
I also feel we should promote tag-specific ads, as that will be important to many advertisers.
And sure, start with the obvious: lots of crypto ads available.
This sounds promising but if this is not THE EXIT SCAM why did STEEM not do anything before we were at critical mass. Also what new market particapate would ever buy into steemit now and power up when ned is powering down and the site is being phased out. I have been on STEEMIT for a while and have signed up many new people recently and now whats next?? REPLY WELCOME PLEASE THANKS !
My preference would be for Steemit Inc. or any interested party who could work well with the various front ends, to not sell ads directly, but instead run an advertising marketplace system and receive a small percentage cut or commission of the funds going through it.
This would be similar to the now defunct Project Wonderful, an ad system which I loved... or in some ways comparable to the current and crypto friendly Anonymous Ads.
This would keep with the community driven spirit as it would be the content creators themselves directly selling advertising space and not the hosting site. Outside advertisers could easily leverage the system, running campaigns with settings allowing them to advertise across posts meeting their criteria, such as particular post tags, author reputation, etc. Users in turn could avoid bid bots for promotion by instead buying ad space in the footer of another favorite author or well known Steemian in their particular area of interest.
Common settings in these services allow users to manage their own ad blocks to reject ads that may not fit their blog as well.
This inherently leaves the choice of ad participation up to individual content creators, and consumers who are against ads can likewise avoid anyone who "overdoes" it or hosts ads not to their liking.
Here's a post I wrote months ago specifically discussing Anonymous Ads. This service does not work within the post bodies on front ends like Steemit and SteemPeak, which I assume is simply a security setting of some sort. Rather than reinvent the wheel, it could still be possible to simply whitelist this code and encourage a partnership between Steem and Anonymous Ads. A-ads starts dealing in Steem in addition to Bitcoin, massively grow their content network and inventory of advertising slots almost overnight, and Steemians get community controlled advertising that creates a secondary income stream with no payout time limit basically enabling evergreen content earnings. Steemit Inc. could either negotiate a split of the commission in exchange for whitelisting and integrating A-ads as the official advertising network of Steem, or set themselves up as a major referrer and earn referral revenue. Likewise, if outside advertisers do begin purchasing with Steem, the potential price appreciation alone can help with Steemit Inc's financials.
This is exactly how it should be done. The STEEM blockchain won't survive without external sources of revenue. I've said this many times in the past and with the market in a downturn it's even more applicable now. The same goes for a lot of crypto's but we will see a lot of them die off in markets like this.
The apps which are being built will need to either source ad revenue, sell data or find other ways to earn money. STEEM itself is a share and can't survive unless their is a good product to give it investment value. Ads make sense as long as the money is distributed in the right way and the ads are discrete rather than invasive.
Love the idea. Buying ads on the steem network should be done by BURNING steem tokens. Then only way an inflationary coin can grow is if the blockchain has a "sink" somewhere where either coins will be burned or held forever.
Otherwise we need constant growth, and we will obviously reach a point where you can no longer grow.
Ad buyers require details about the community where it plans to spend its ad dollars. These details include gender, age range, geographical location, etc. Facebook and Google ad platforms are wildly successful because they are able to provide these details and advertisers can expect a reasonable level of success.
Since Steem-based sites & dApps will not be able to provide these details of its members, we will see really low grade and irritating ads that will upset our community.
Desperate times may call for desperate measures - but an ill-conceived ad platform service is probably not one of them.
We can get some good demographics though; e.g. it’s easy for an algorithm to tell whether someone is interested in blockchain or travel, etc based on the tags users upvote or they post using.
Advertisment selling is 100% proper way to make steemit and steem sustainable. Nerd and Witnesses should figure out the most proper way.
You have definitely sparked my interest. I like your idea I just don't want to be slammed with advertisements constantly, so like you said it would have to be done in the right fashion. Maybe even make it each users option whether to allow advertisements on your page or not, and if you do allow them you get some sort of additional incentive of some sort. That way everyone is happy, because it is everyones' personal choice whether they see advertisements or not. Of course I don't even know if that would be a possibility, its just an idea.
Althought my gut feeling is against it, I guess with the situation we are facing it can make sense, especially with some ideas you are mentioning to structure it properly. I guess one question is how it would or could be distributed across various front ends... and who coordinates the deals, etc.
I’m convinced. It would be so beneficial to have all ads paid in Steem!
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I've been trying to tilt people's mind to the possibilities of advertising via musing app through a series of questions. This can bring millions into the steem blockchain. It is clear now that steemit inc cannot afford to cover the cost of its operations and we cannot rely on the reward pool either. We need money to come into the system and what better way to do so than through advertising. Imagine the traffic steemmonster and musing are pulling currently. Now imagine what they would have brought into the steem ecosystem if they ran ads. Steemmonster is worth $1m if I'm not mistaken. They would have tripled that amount if they ran ads on their app. So this is an opportunity will need not to dismiss. Those who are not in favor of this should consider the cost of not having these ads and whether they are willing to pay for it because with the way things are going someone needs to pay, and it's definitely not going to be steemit inc.
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As far as I know, busy is actually going to have ads soon. The last talk of Steemfest about bringing ads to Steem had dapps that were going to use their solution on one of their slides and I could see busy was one of them.
Heh, as I'm timestamping the video I see @yabapmatt just leaving before the talk begins. :P
2:30:15
Time-stamping doesn't seem to work when embedding here.
I watched this one and think there is potential, thanks for adding it to this discussion.
You're right, I didn't double-check. I used the "copy video URL at current time" feature, but it seems broken here as you said. The time you mentioned is correct, everyone jump there to see it. :)
We'll see how well it goes when busy.org implements it. I would love to get highly targeted ads that pay me to see them. This talk actually made me look forward to them, which is odd since usually I really don't like seeing random ads. :P
Hi
Yes, I think your suggestion is good and think that it is a good way.
Does "Brave Payments" tell you something?
People pay with BAT to visit steemit.com, eventually your ads pay people because they visit steem.com ;)
Currently it is the case that every user of the browser "Brave" receives free tokens (BAT) once a month.
Just take with you, what the hell.
best regards
i wouldn't be opposed to the introduction of ads if it helped, and it's easy to just block them if you don't want to see them, right? 👍
That's the problem with traditional ads. People block them anyway, most major legacy pages out there right now that depend on ad revenue are dieing a slow death.
I wouldn't mind having advertisements. There could be a "Hide Ad" feature on the frontend if it's not someone's cup of tea. Similar to how @eonwarped made it possible for us to hide resteems on our blog page on SteemIt.
I agree with your thoughts.
STEEM needs an ad. And I think that the advertising history should be clear.
If the details of the advertisement are not clear, I think that decentralization is meaningless in the end.
I think the problem with STEEM is that STEEM has too few elements to burn. (Only null)
A proper burn will further increase the value of the coin.
Might be a good idea but how much revenue can it really generate for them? It may not be enough 😀
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Would be good that other steem base website like @busy, @steempeak, or recently new @steeveapp having that feature. Then it come down to their current active users is it large enough for potential advertiser to spent ads $ and how targeted.
Or alternatively, company can have an official steem account and advertise via bidbot ! Which a good way to get attention if nothing change.
@oracle-d are talking to businesses outside steem and getting them to invest in steem and potential content creators to compose content for them.
@actifit recently did the integration with fitbit wearable which is an awesome move too, possible some sort of future advertising possibilities from fitbit on their products in steem blockchain directly or indirectly.
We can start with even a banner ad placement and target the ad buyer directly for sponsored content stories ( like you have mentioned) ,that's an automated funnel right there !!
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Individuals should be able to sell advertising not site
Agreed... It could add value to people's posts and wallets
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It seems a shame, but if this platform is to survive but needs to bloody do something to compete.
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This post has awesome all over it.
It’s a beautiful explanation for an idea that makes sense.
Not only would advertisers pay in Steem, it only makes sense that they would then accept it as payment for their products/services. One leads naturally to the other.
What are we waiting for?
Posted using Partiko iOS
I completely agree...this whole poop pooing of ads is immature at best.
I agree with your sir,Steem needs to advertise all over the social medias..we all know that everyday Steem registered accounts are counting to fast and more accounts created everydah but sad to say 60-80% of it already had an account on steemit. To get more original bloggers and content creators and investors advertising is one of the best thing to do!
So they sall steem to make money.
I like the idea but would like it even more if the funds received are partly allocated to development efforts and to the rewards pool to also benefit the community directly as well.
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You can promote posts with SBD right now. The only thing they need to do is make it so the top most promoted posts are displayed somewhere on the UI.
edit : Here I made a post talking about it in greater detail
https://steemit.com/busy/@thecastle/i-know-how-to-help-the-steemit-platform-and-its-easy-as-hell
I see a lot of comments about it not being enough to pay steemit inc but ads at this point isnt about being a primary revenue driver but to suppliment their current income in the bear market, this additional revenue stream is only good for steemit.
I just hope that its done in a way where users have the choice to see them or not, hopefully its a free choice or i'll have to use a front end that does off it. I also thought that people who have a certain amount of stake could have the choice to switch it off since they active and invested
Fascinating thought! I see your reasoning and I agree that ads on Steemit would like be more successful than anywhere else on the internet if Steemians understand that the ads are building the value of our tokens. If we then turn around and support those products, the advertisers will see a return on investment, and that metric can be shared with other potential advertisers. I hadn’t heard of this idea, but I think you’re onto something. On the flip side, I would hope there would be some intelligent parameters around the type of advertising, the size of the ads, etc. so they wouldn’t detract from the content of the posts.
It was because of such ideas that I chose you as one of the witnesses for whom I voted. I'm 200% for advertising, as an additional monetization of my blog !!!
I agree.
But keep in mind that small social networks usually do not run ads. Ads cause user engagement to fall, which makes the network less useful to advertisers. Because of this problem, social networks usually run losses for the first few years of their existence. These losses are managed by having successive rounds of financing that bring new investment capital into the platform. This is the way both Facebook and Twitter handled the problem, and it worked for them. After the network becomes really big, investors make up what they lost due to the high profitability of a large social network.
You have a point that maybe Steem is different. Maybe users would be more engaged because of the reasons you cited. But we should keep in mind that there are reasons most social networks don't run ads when they are still small.