I'm also talking about upvoting bots, not only about them but partially. To make this clear from the start, I'm not going for the "Burn all the bots and people behind the bots".
The bots are currently a big part of the "visibility ecosystem" we have around here. Upvoting bots are a favorite method to reach trending.
I can understand that. I've accidentally (or "accidentally"?) bought myself in trending with a bot. It was quite nice, but it wasn't a splendid experience. The most attention I got from it was so called shitty attention - people commenting nonsense "nice post well done" etc. "follow me friend" whatever comments the most popular posts receive.
Indeed I got more attention, but does this kind of attention make you happy?
Some are hoping to catch whales attention with this, but can we seriously think a whale thinks you are cool because you bought upvotes from a bot?
The best thing we can reach though is to make us visible to our peers. If even one person who is actually interested in you and the content you create, it's worth it. I have a lot of cool people following me and I'm feeling bad I don't post that often. I miss their comments. I'm too little on Steemit so I don't even always notice their posts and that makes me feel even worse.
But back to visibility.
You can purchase visibility from bots. However, what I think is really sad is how quite many people think the bots are the only way to get visibility. That's unless you're already a big, famous user with a lot of SP.
I'm not sure if they're getting zero visibility without the bots or if they just are unhappy with the amount of visibility they're getting. "I'm getting only 5/10/20/50/1500 views in average per post, I deserve more".
Of course, it can feel wrong. Especially if you work on something and it might actually be good, but in the end you'll get 5 views and maybe none of them actually read what you wrote. Just drop a comment "wow well done upvote for upvote" 10 seconds after you posted. You will surely feel let down.
But would upvotes from bots grant you more people actually reading the post?
This is the special thing.
I really do believe having some upvotes on the post will help. If you see a post from 2 days ago with $0.00 estimated payout, you might just skip it. "It can't be good as there are no upvotes". However, if the post had $4.52 worth of upvotes, it might catch your attention. At this point, you do not know if it's a bought upvote or not.
With an average author, $4.52 is quite good if it's natural votes. With bought upvotes, it might bring some more people to read your post.. maybe.
It's not only about the estimated payout value though. You can't survive alone on that, unless you buy yourself to trending, be it on a specific tag or in the normal trending. You need people to view your profile, follow you. You still need to impress them with your posts - you are competing with all the other people the viewers are following.
You need to build connections with other people, in one way or another. For most of us, it's still personal interactions. The cheapest method of visibility, standing against the claim "I can't get visibility without bots". You are the key to get views.
Many users on Steemit are like single people, sitting alone at home and thinking "Why isn't anyone asking me for a date?"
It doesn't matter how well prepared you are for the date or how great you would be on the date if you're not interacting with anyone in any way.
We can get lots of visibility for free. Good or bad visibility. You can get 5000 followers without issues, but does it help you in any way?
Steemit is a rough competition for views and payouts. You will most likely be disappointed in both.
Personally, I'm not even following the amount of people viewing my posts. I'm just hoping my favorite people will drop a comment.
And when I'm saying this, sorry for not leaving a comment in your post. Sometimes I do read your post but I just can't come up with anything to comment. I hope you still know I read you and I care.
Upvoting bots can bring you whatever you are looking for. They are still not the only way for visibility and views.
I hope you all will understand this and view on Steemit and the bots in a different way. What kind of attention and visibility do you want? Are you wanting it for followers? Upvotes? If you see a post in trending, do you think all the attention, comments and views are because it's in trending - or can it be the author already has friends, loyal followers, a community around him who are viewing his post even though it's not in trending?
All you see is "The post is in trending, there are a lot of views and comments". You always see only a part of the truth.
All images used are CC0 from Pixabay!
Hey @apsu,
thats a question I think many of us pondered at some point! I considered bots in my early steemit-days, but never actually used one. I chose a very "puristic" attitude:
This was hard at the beginning, but it really enabled me to have an insanely good time on steemit and spend it with the best of people! :)
And look how you still are active even after you'll soon be one year on Steemit!
I can say it seems your method is really working - and it's a great thing :)
You are right.Many people comment without posting it.
And about bots i don't think its wrong .I think sometimes the article is a quality article but people don't saw it.By using bots many people can saw and give upvote .
I didn't quite understand what you are trying to say, but thank you?
I am not going to judge people who are using bots because I also use them from time to time. But to be honest they just give us a false feeling of appreciation! We only notice this when we don’t use a bot on the next post. It puts us back with our feet on the ground!
I say it alot and I will write it again. I always will prefer a genuine comment above an upvote(don’t get me wrong an upvote is always appreciated).
Interaction is maybe the most undervalued power we have on the Steem blockchain. Interaction is what gets us noticed during the dark days as I like to call it!
Interactions will get us healthy group of followers. I rather have 10 genuine followers than 1000 follow-you-follow-me followers!
I do feel that the trending and hot page has to be fixed. I really would like to see the number of comments integrated in the alghoritm!
Great post and we are on the same page. I did give you an upvote crushing my voting power even more!
I do hope to see these kinds of posts more often in the trending page!
Good luck,
Peter
Well I'm not judging people who use bots either. Not at least now, I might do it every now and then.
However, as mentioned in plenty of comments, people are here for different reasons. Some are only for money, some think the money is a bonus and why wouldn't someone decline all rewards always and be here 100% for the social aspect, or whatever pleasure they might find here.
Hmm....well as of late I've been converting all my sbd into steem power thinking itvwill eventually make my own upvote more valuable. I gave up on the whole bot thing long time ago. Too complicated for my brain. What i would like is posts i actually wanna read as well as genuine votes and comments on my posts too but obviously that's only going go occur in a perfect world.
Hey @luanne,
well, at least the "posts I actually wanna read" part should be achievable. Just follow only people who blog about stuff you are interested in! I get updates only from a handful of people, and looking at my "Feed" page is always really interesting! :) At the beginning it is a bit hard to find out who to follow and where to find people you can follow, but eventually it will create a superb newsfeed! Good luck!
I find i have to go to their blog pages to see what they're up to. I also have added peeps who have since quit blogging because the value of steem dropped. I have been going back and slowly weeding out the dead blogs, but it's very frustrating i fund. Probably just me.
It is a big ocean out there, with lots of plankton, red fishes, dolphins, whales and orcas out there!.
That's way I do present each Thursday 3 of the people I am following to my followers. I also write down why I do follow these people! It is up to the readers of the post if they do want to check them out or not!
Also I browse a few times per day through the new posts! Trying to discover new good authors!
I would comment on this, but we talked already on the chat :P
People don't want followers or engagement. They want money. I'm sorry, but this post is mostly bullshit. No one is here for genuine engagement. You get that on Facebook or Reddit, or anywhere else on the internet.
If people were given the choice between "genuine engagement" and a 100% whale autovote bot with zero views on every post, they would choose the latter.
No one is here for the "social media aspect". They are here to quit their job at McDonald's.
I'm one of the crazy one! I do see the money part merely as a side effect, while I will not neglect an upvote!
But still I do think that I would have been here anymore with the interaction/engagement I am receiving!
I don't have any problem with your viewpoint, at least you are being honest!
He is honest, but he's also
an assholeassuming he's always right.He's not right always, but more often than the average person, but not as often as an engineer would be.
I had to come reply on my phone even though I hate using phone for writing.
People actually really often want the money. They assule they will get big whale upvotes whem they have enough followers and engagement - they assume whales are mindless drones following big groups of users.
Or then they assume big amounts of upvotes bring a lot of payouts. Quite many have no idea of SP and how it affects upvote value.
Facebook and Reddit are controlled. Facebook more than reddit. Write about wrong stuff and you're gone. I never write about the wrong stuff, but I am writing stuff my fb friends are not interested about.
Also, I'm lucky enough to be Finnish so my hourly wage is more than I'm getting on my better posts, while spending more time on a post than at work.
Some poor bastards are trying to use Steemit to get rich on their own standard. They rarely care about engagement, that is true.
I do write 70% of my comments on my phone! Silly me!!!
I do understand there are too many people here for the money. I do understand that some have worked out a great short term business model, without knowing that they are destroying the hand that feeds them!
I’m from Belgium and luckily my real job brings in the money! I’m glad thatI don’t have to count on my Steem earning! I do understand that some people do need it and I can understand in thesecase that they will do everything within the system to achieve these goals. But these are rately the people who buy their post into the trending pages!
I know he is right with on some aspect, I just have a different viewpoint! For me interacting on the Steem blockchain is fun, the money for me is really a nice side effect!
I have never been upvotes by a whale 🤔and according to me I do have posts which are worth it. Not all but some 😂
I also don’t mind that @schattenjaeger has a different opinion! At least he keeps it to facts, which I can appreciate! As long as we respect each others opinions that I could take a loss!
Oh you must have a better phone or better nerves than I have. I'm always having issues with my phone keyboard, as I'm really fast typer with a traditional keyboard but the phone keyboards aren't fast enouogh.
Congratulations being from Belgium! Too bad you don't have as good chocolate as Finns have. (Let's see how much you respect my opinion after this..)
Lets say the the backspace on my iphone is worn out!
Lets see. I can only recall one chocolate which reminds me of Finland, which is finlandia. And you don’t taste the chocolate due to the alcohol!
I don’t even remember a Finish beer! Carlsberg is from Danmark and, ow, Tuborg also.
Always in for some friendly banter 😂
Some people are using bots like investment. They don't seek for visibility. And some people want to have more followers, so they want their post on trending, so people can see their post and follow them. But I think best way to get visibility is commenting on other posts. What do you think about it?
Some do use bots to earn money, but it's a poor method to earn money. Maybe some can get it to work, but most will just be disappointed after curation rewards are removed.
Commenting is the best kind of visibility, especially if you're focusing on people with similar interests as you have. :)
Is there any reason to think that people use bots for visibility?
I see buying votes as just another market that one can use.
Edit: You can send 0.100 to a bot and get back 0.200, it's like money magic.
Although I think it should still only be used for posts with merit. If the post is low quality like, "Just posting to multiply my SBD." then I think that's when dolphins and whales should actually start judging.
Some at least claim they do.
The bots are kind of "flawed" right now, so I'm not sure how certain it is to earn with them. If you pay 0.100 and get 0.200, you'll use 0.1 SBD to get estimated payout of 0.2. 25% is going to curation, so you'll have $0.15.. half is paid as SBD, so you'll get 0.075 SBD and $0.075 worth of SP, which currently could be 0.025 SP. (if Steem is at $3)
If the SBD price would be $3 per SBD, you'd spend $0.6 worth of SBD to get an upvote, giving $3x0.075+$3x0.025 worth of payouts to you.
And basically you earn nothing, lose nothing. In this example case.
Yes, I may be off since I haven't really sat down and figured out the variation between STU/SP/steem/sbd. What I do see is that you can send the 0.100 SBD and get back about 0.200 (STU?) in the form of a vote(s).
0.200 x 0.75 = 0.150 which i think we agree would be the overall STU for the author. At that point I don't care if it comes in any form so long as it is worth more than the original SBD. I got the SBD from votes in the first place, and was going to trade it for steem and power it up anyway so anything that comes back as SP isn't considered a 'loss' by any stretch. According to steem.supply i should get back the sbd I put in plus a little SP as icing on the cake. Those that sell the vote get my direct sbd and some of the curation, with hopefully more of the curation going to people that voted me organically. Anything that comes back to me as SBD can go right on out again until it's all SP.
The visibility i want, is that which generates engagement in my post. I would rather be seen by ten people who genuinely read and show interest in what i post, and care enough to share their honest thoughts on it, than the thousands who only come running to upvote, and leave at best 'nice post' kind of nonsense.
But i think, and i have said this many times before, bot use is also being used by some people for long term play. I think every one recognizes that when you have a big reputation, you are likely to draw the attention of the community whenever you post.
In a sense, that is true, several people see a post by a 60+ account, and rush to thoughtlessly upvote, scheming for curation rewards in the expectation that the post will ultimately get heavily rewarded.
So the long term play, is to first grow your reputation. And high % and high REP voting bots, depending on how much you bid, help achieve that.
I previously gave a scenario of an account only a fortnight old, and already on REP above 60!!!! That is extremely difficult to achieve unless you employ bot upvotes.
An interesting thing about that account though, is that any of its other posts for which it does not pay bots, ends up getting a couple of view and meager cents!
@mirrors, why are you yelling?? ;0)
Hahahahah.......I am actually whispering, @simplymike. You have woken up?
Yes, I heard the sound of those bold letters and was awake instantly - lol
I’m only up for a short while. Not feeling so great, so I’m going to take a nap, hoping the painkillers will be working by the time I wake up again.
It was funny to see you here in the comments section, ‘cos I just commented about the importance of networking, and here you are... the living proof ;0)
See, maybe this is another way of getting 'visibility'! No? lol.
Get well quick. I hope you are on curative medication, more than just PK's.
And this, your crisscrossing my paths!!! I should lose you in my steemit wanderings! lolllll.
I think you don’t need anything else than your wise words to get visibility and to stand out ;0)
True. Did the PK's work?
Mmmh, for sure the first 2 paragraphs could have been written by me! I do think the same as you do!
It is the human nature to just trust rep above 50 more than the ones below 30. But on the Steem platform reputation can be bought! When I did start here, I was under the false impression that reputation was the only thing here that could be but bought but I was wrong. By spending enough money on bots with a higher rep, your reputation could sky rocket!
I am here on the steem blockchain to interact with people, I do see the money part as a nice side effect! Nothing more, nothing less. I do appreciate an upvote though, but appreciate a genuine comment even more!
@simplymike, screaming is with capitals not with bold!
True. Thanks for augmenting my insights. And @simplymike better know the difference between whispering and yelling! You tell her. lol.
Type in bolf : yelling
Typing in capitals : big ego
Takng in bolf capitals = shouting
😜
Whispering = italics - lol
Okayyyyyyyyy @simplymike! You win! Hahahah
I probably won because I kept typing ‘bolf’ instead of ‘bold’.
Stupid fat fingers... ;0)
But maybe i should point this one out. You repeat posted one of your previous replys to me!
Those fat fingers!!
Wow, this has turned into a real big conversation chain.
"Nice comment"
I mean.. luckily higher reputation helps to get some attention, but it's not the thing alone. The easiest way to increase reputation is to strike a high reputation upvote early on, I think I reached rep 40+ with my first post. Not above 60 though, but that sounds just insane!
I see accounts like that, with payouts built mostly on upvote bots, sad. They aren't even making that much money, as they're paying for every vote they get and still getting a part of the payout as big part goes to the curation.
I know of an account (stumbled on it just yesterday) that is just 4 days old, but is already at REP 56! And all owing to bots. And you know how many posts published? Just 4, including the introduction. At that rate, 60+ REP will be achieved in only a days.
Worse, the quality of work is, to put it bluntly, ridiculous. And i will say that again, ridiculous. I made sure to make that known in my comment.
How credible a reputation is that? Anyway, when all is said and done, we can only do so much.
Sad to hear. To be honest, I’m in shock...
Of course I knew about the power of the bots, but this is INSANE (= shouting with a big ego)
But I do agree that when you have a higher rep (like say 65+), you gain more followers, more feedback, more upvotes... because many minnows are hoping to get a vote from you.
Why on earth did I let @davemccoy talk me into this @newbieresteemday initiative. I’m using my VP and my time to support minnows, when I could be using it to suck up on people with a high rep/upvote value, hoping for them to upvote me - lol
That is the tragedy, @simplymike. Money seems to just about buy anything.
And don't blame @davemccoy.
That too suck! lol
Of course, I know, lol.
Someone should invent a font for ‘sarcastic’ - lol
Don't worry, it was only a whisper! I am not sure many heard.
@apsu I disagree with you on some points.
I know I am not that much experienced steemain. But what I am sharing my thoughts what I figured out from this platform.
As You can see my posts. I did an experiment by using some Upvote bots & believe me they are worth using. I am happy from them. I got more views & more Upvotes from other users even from 1 or 2 whales. But you can se my other posts where I didn't use Upvotes bots, those posts are undervalue. I mean I didn't get much upvotes & views on those posts.
Yes, I agreed with you that when we use upvote bots to make our posts on trending page then we get a lot of shitty comments like "great post, keep it up" etc. But at the same time, we get a lot of views, upvotes (which attract whales) & Followers (many with small SP). even thogh those followers which we are getting have small Sp but we shouldn't Ignore them. They are new but with the time their sp will grow & their voting power will mean a lot. Some of them will maybe Invest in getting SP, so we should not ignore low sp steemains, we have to engage with them & give them some credit. And In future they will give you some credit too!
So, At the end. Upvote Bots are helpful but not as much as many people think.
That's the problem with bots in my opinion. They do give me a false feeling of appreciation to a point in which it can become an addiction! I also use bots sometimes to give my posts some extra exposure and yes it does hurt when I do look at my posts without bot involvement. While I don't see these post as undervalued! It is probably the real reflection of my rank on the Steem blockchain!
I do appreciate your viewpoint but mine just differs.
Well I'm glad people disagree. What would the world be if nobody would be wrong ;)
No I mean.. but yes, I'm glad you're happy with your upvote bot experiences. However I might guess you have not received upvotes from actual whales, and it'd be difficult to get their attention with upvote bots. There are basically "whale upvoting servies" and some pack a power of an actual whale, that's for sure.
Some people have pointed out, that before the upvote bot trend started, more users were giving out upvotes for free to others. Now more and more people are asking for a payment to upvote something.
At one point, you couldn't buy your way to trending and the trending page looked a bit different than what it is nowadays.
But can't deny most of us are here for the money and fame.
I think the bot thing has just about come full circle for me now - when I see a good payout on a post I automatically wonder if the votes were paid for. Soemtimes I read a post that is not fantastic and has like 20 dollars or more in upvotes and usually they are paid.
Bots arent the problem IMO its how they are being used (and abused)
That's the thing. I even sometimes check the comments to see if there are a bunch of comments from bots. Not that I would let it affect me too much, but sometimes you just know it.
I'm not against bots though. Not entirely at least. Robots killed my family though.. that's why I'm fighting. For revenge.
When I see on a post that it has already 10 upvotes or more but only 2 views, then this shows that there are most likely bots at work.
I did delegate some SP to @jerrybanfield but then found out that my delegated power was used to vote for a quite shitty post so I stopped it. Then I tried minnowsupport to upvote one of my posts - this was quite embarrassing as this was then also the only upvote I got - so no real reader ...
True. Some posts, which under normal circumstances are 5-10 minute reads, solicit 50+ upvotes in the first 10 seconds!
BOTS!
For me that is harmful. Engagement is one of the finest indicators of a healthy social media platform, incentivised such as steemit or not, such as Facebook. And 'unthinking bit' don't help to that end, besides there other indirect harms.
Yes, you are right - bots are harmful to the underlying idea of steemit ..
They are, trust me, Thanks
Well luckily I can show I'm far off from bots right now, I can have 30 views and 10 upvotes in my posts. Doesn't make me feel any better though.
And we don't need to worry about being embarrassing. Some people are always worse - someone at one point used upvote bots but flagged the bot comments, so readers wouldn't notice so easily he has used bot services.
That's something really embarrassing.
Hahaha, people keep surprising me...
I completely agree that networking is the best way to get genuine followers. Comment on other people’s posts, talk to them on Discord, be real, and get to know them. These people are more likely to pay a visit to your blog and leave you a meaningful comment and/or upvote.
I’ve learned a long time ago that the community is way more important than the money.
Illustration: I have the people that belong to my closest network set up in Ginabot on Discord. Every time they make a new post, I’m notified and I can go and check it out. It’s not ‘playing favorites: if I don’t like the post, I won’t upvote it - lol
I appreciate every meaningful comment on my posts, and the bigger your network gets, the more people you see coming back again and again. That builds relationships, which are far more important than the Dollars - although I like them too ;0)
Did the ginabot go off a few minutes ago? If not, than you forgot to add me :)
Just kidding!
No Gina took a break a bit earlier. Guess she needed a cup of coffee. I make her work pretty hard ;0)
🤔 what a coincidence 😂
I didn't read your comment, but I'll just upvote it and say "follow for follow".
No but for real, networking is really great. It's just a shame even the "Talk to other people" can be so misunderstood. At worst, someone tries to "talk" to people with spamming comments. "I just tried to make friends".
I can see you're not new for being so well aware of these things. The meaningful comments are the joy of Steemit. I'm happy with the payouts too, but you can't really sense the real appreciation through only the upvotes. "Did he vote me because I'm good or because of something else?"
People can comment even if they don't think you're good and you'll know it. "You suck, dumbass" or such is a better thing than someone just skips past your post and doesn't react in any way.
Agree. I’d rather make an impact - any impact - than no impact at all.
But I can’t go around saying ‘you suck, dumbass’ every time I think so. That would be spamming - lol
APSUUUUUUUUU!
Whatever I choose to write, I want it to be amazing to me. If one person genuinely reads it and thinks it's good, that makes me so happy! I think everyone at some point or another has the "good post" guy swooping in to ruin their day on a post they worked hard on.
Although I don't normally adopt the scarcity mentality, I see Steemit as a competition. But rather than just be me versus all the other content creators, I see it as an opportunity to empower others, and for others to inspire me.
I've gotten natural trending and have "accidentally" bought trending with bots too. One key thing I noticed is that it doesn't feel as nice as I would think it to be when I bought votes in the past.
Interacting is a big deal on Steemit but I would rather use my time connecting and building strong relationships with some of my favorite people than spread myself too thin commenting everything, everywhere just to be seen. It's okay to not comment sometimes! :D
I literally realized that I haven't written all my replies from like 5 days ago. I like going at my own pace, and enjoying what I write. If I get real votes, that means I did a good job. But if I don't then I will just enjoy writing my next post and not worry too hard.
I just broke 1000 followers too, but instead of making a post for it, I am silently celebrating :3
love,
shello
Congratulations on your followers! And can you see how slowly I'm replying to all the comments? Some of the comments I've replied to today are comments from 4-5 days ago. Imagine that!
Almost a week delay.
But I'm doing this when this makes me happy. And I'm glad you're doing your own pace. You're doing a good job :)
Goodbye shello
Wait.. that doesn't sound as good as hello shello?
Thank you @apsu,
Thank you for the well wishes, Steemit will always be a home to me <3 I also finally got my slider today :DD LMAO I also take forever to reply to comments at times! (my bad) I like to reply everyone at one time so that I can better dedicate my focus and not just write whatever to reply xD 4 or 5 days feels like the magic number to me!
No goodbyes only hello!!! And thank you, I wanna be in "hustling mode", but I think that having fun is more important. Thank you for all the love my dear Apsu c:
Oh my, now who's having a dramatic day? Hahaha. I think I found out the magic formula of Steemit. 😂😂😂
It's all about connections yes but it's also following where the money is sometimes. 😎 But heck I might be wrong on what that magic formula is. Maybe I will post about it soon if I have proven it.
Am just following the advice you gave me, don't take Steemit seriously. So let's play the game shall we? 😁
To the Steemit nazi fag child molestor phedophile who bully on the internet cause they dont have respect for women. you sad sad fuck @erodedthoughts
i think you also @apsu in the phedophile pysco ring.
stop stalking me and leave me alone