Taboo
Today I want to discuss a subject that has been the cause of much drama in the Steemit community. This subject is almost taboo, because you can not discuss it without loss. It is the cause of divide in our community and a lot of pain to some.
Added Value
Added value was not a term used in the original Steemit whitepaper. Steemit started as a reddit model competitor and quickly deteriorated into a Medium model competitor, I say deteriorated because at the time Medium's business model was failing.
Steemit started with a huge influx of people, then the influx died down. People were welcomed with a wall of "Added value", content value, and presentation.
We simply shut down the door on the casual social media users, who are not interested in becoming the target of investigation as soon as they walk into the community, or posting "Quality Posts".. This is not a defense of the ID thieves or plagiarists. We simply set the bar too high. We were not willing to accept the fast expansion. Yet, if you ask any social media expert, a social media network's biggest wealth was and still is the number of users.
Witch Hunts
Why do we have witch hunts on Steemit? why did a community divide on itself? why label some large investors "whales" evil and some "whales" as good?
The fact is we created this divide, for one reason , and one reason alone. MONEY
We rewarded Steemians to go after other Steemians for exposing abuse, I almost fell for that myself, I looked the situation and quickly realized how bad this can be for Steemit on the long run, so I started an opposite approach, try to mend things between the opposites.
What is abuse? @nextgencrypto voting for OZ is abuse? so what was the developers voting for dollarvigilante ?
But the story does not end with one whale or another, the story continues, we still have the door locked, and we made it worse. Now we go looking for people who are a success on Youtube, Twitter, and Medium, and invite them here to reward them. They will do better for now, because they are not on one side of the fence yet. Oh and that "added value" is inherited from their previous success, until they make the mistake of joining the divide.
I will not talk much about the past and where we made the mistakes and created the divide. I will give instead a recent case of discussion and explain why "added value" is splitting one community and creating borders.
I know him from the early days of crypto, yes he PM'd me several times on IRC before slack was invented. What I knew about him then is he is a go getter, he never quits, will reach to the end of the world to deliver his message. What I know about him now, he is a successful Steemian, runs the fuk.io crypto blog and he is a Mod on bitcoin.com
You might not like his style, or do not appreciate the message, but when you need to know something about something, he is the one to ask. He spends 18 hours of his day keeping up with news on crypto projects.. ( and : I do not know why this "and" fell here, it was a typo, or a pm on slack that changed my line of thought )
So yesterday a case came up where @transisto thought his presentation of :
was bad enough that it deserved a 100% downvote and another article about the same subject was better presented.
Of course @transisto have every right to his opinion, but here I will present why I think he is wrong. And why this falls into the same category of an illusion called "added value"
The other writer could have well presented the article in a much better way, could be using spell correction or better at grammar. Could be better at selecting words or images, or better at selecting the layout. But is that all that counts?
What we always ignore is what comes after, @kingscrown has reach, thousands of followers of his blog, thousands of followers on twitter, and hundreds who read his posts on forums. If we go back and track those Youtube famous people who we invite to reward blindly, I can show you how they get these views and followers, simply an ad inside an app on Apple appstore will get you 10 million views on Youtube. Yes those Ads you see in apps of videos playing for 30 seconds from youtube. Yet we decide to invite these people and reward them for an imaginary following, but we will "hate" on kingscrown and his reach.
We decide to reward the unknown and punish the known. How many people did dollarvigilante bring to steemit other than those people who were writers on his blog so they get rewarded just like he did. How many of you know about the playboy model scam that he planned with one of his friends to scam the community a large payout? where is that Model now with her millions of followers?
Did @kingscrown stop posting when the reward pool went down to pay nothing? or did he continue to write while those so called influencers gave Steemit their back?
If we do not learn to appreciate our own, we will never learn. Yes, @kingscrown makes typos, so do I, and so do you. But one thing I know, he delivers his message with honesty, he tells it like it is, hate him or like him, he is a better Steemian than your subjective "added value" playboy model.
@kingscrown can go buy a nice camera and post pictures of himself in Bikini everyday, but then I will probably downvote him myself.
For Steemit to expand we need to open the doors, if people see someone write like Charles Dickens on the trending page they will have fear, they will think "this is not for me". Yes it's that person with typos that will make people think " Hey I can do this "
You think I'm wrong ? Why don't anyone bother to address the part I said was wrong about @kingscrown article ?
Where does this "10 second access to network" come from ? It make no technical sense to me and I believe it's wrong.
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@kingscrown/psa-freewallet-and-jaxx-getting-robbed-over-10-million-usd-stolen
Still the first line of his article.
Instead this guy explaining the technical detail get hit by Kingcrown downvote without any reply about the issue.
You may also notice that I have downvoted about 12 articles that day and the day before, not because I found the content was shit, wrong, full of typos or a few day late news, but because I was simply disagreeing on the reward, I disagree on reward mostly because of that exponential curve we're mostly all agree to change in HF19.
For starters my post is about 2 wallets having issues, not about one so whole argument is wrong from the core.
For the second "where does 10 second comes from" comes from.. original finder of the exploit, currently he edited it to 20 seconds. https://vxlabs.com/2017/06/10/extracting-the-jaxx-12-word-wallet-backup-phrase/
Its linked in the article that you read so closely and downvoted.
Good to know you and andu are better coders than him. So from now please argue with original finder of the bug not me as you elite coders know better.
Amazing we have so skilled people here!
How easy would it not have been for the two of you to hash this out in the comment section of the original post. I don't think either one of you is a bad person. You should be able to get along just fine. I wish and think you will at some point.
You turned
into
I really don't want to argue with you but adding ("network") time was an irrelevant detail related to time and not method of access. We're talking access to local storage there, whether it's accessed remotely or not doesn't change the time in any significant matter.
You completely changed the meaning of the sentence by miss quoting.
For multiple reasons, I also have been upvoting people that aren't necessarily the best writers and I don't limit myself to judging individuals strictly on this matter, though I do look for sincerity/honesty and as much quality as I can find relating to the group it targets.
Thanks for this important post, you are bridging the gap! All for one and one for all! Namaste :)
i think your right
i'm still learning how to use steemit
great response sir...
Thank you! Namaste :)
Welcome...Namaste;)
Love the greeting. A fan of Bollywood zeeworld . already ur fan following..and hoping to get ur posts
agreed. i read everything before upvoting to keep it real and honest, but yes quality is a must.
all the best and peace out!
@eric-boucher Namaste :)
I am 100% sure that I will not contribute anything of value to Steemit whatsoever. :D :D :D
you already did by signing up. :D
haha LOL
You're on the right network banjokid!
Isn't commenting still contributing?
Haha, I'm in the same boat, but about 99.99% sure!
Best comment, of the day :)
"@kingscrown can go buy a nice camera and post pictures of himself in Bikini everyday, but then I will probably downvote him myself."
lol I'd pay money for that.
Edit: I could go for some bitcoin pasties as well.
maybe for one post I would too. :D
Social media can work in many ways. While I think there are a time and place for a downvote I'm not sure I would have used it there. However, I avoid much of this by staying out of it. I upvote what I like, comment on what I like and typically don't flag unless someone is straight up stealing content. What other find valuable, funny, useful, etc may not be the same for me. Thus, I let the people decide what is useful and I don't think so I just stay away.
@dzboston33 agree with your approach 100%. Well said.
...
Yep!
I really salute supporting real value and unknown authors who have a lot to tell in images, layout and words as well. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I put a lot of original content into steeming, sometimes things I didn't tell or shared in real to many or any.. and I don't get much exposure. Can you please see and tell am I doing something wrong? I would appreciate it much! Thanking you @joseph
You are not doing anything wrong, but you fell into the illusion of added value, on a social media platform it's all about followers, interaction, people you know and get to know, how well you promote your content, and last what your content is about.
Good point! Agreed. TY!
Yes, I looked at some of your posts and they do look to be undervalued. I'm sure if you keep at it you will get to where you want to be! :)
You're so nice and inspiring cyber. Thank you! :)
We should all start engaging in a meaningful way. This takes time, unfortunately. I'll check out yours posts :).
I see many new youtubers and media people coming in and getting enormous payouts on there first post. I don't really care what they get, I will only upvote what I like regardless of who they are, there reputation score, and where there coming from. Yes, some people have natural skill and more desirable content that is popular, sure they'll make more. I on the other hand will be happy to connect and share with the people I have common interests with.
I could contribute a kidney and not be rewarded more than $40. Here, in this place, it's about who you know, or how much you already have.
is it the left kidney or the right one? and what is your blood type? :D
Dirty secret, I'm ineligible for donation.
I found the article discussing Reddit and Medium particularly interesting. I think Reddit is an example of a platform where the vast majority of users offer little to no value, at least on the content creation side. Most of them would be non-earners here. If Steemit wants to replace some of the main forms of social media, it will probably need to find a way to encourage participation of those who may not necessarily provide good content, because users are indeed a key metric, at least by many, for valuation.
Also, despite the lack of technical censorship here, I am certainly more careful of what I say, as I am concerned about the potential for things you discuss such as witch hunts for comments out of context, etc.
@joseph I like that you wrote this piece. I feel like there is a lot of times that people are afraid to speak their mind on here because suddenly it isn't politically correct and we will be viewed as a loose cannon so we won't be auto voted.....etc Or piss people off.
I have mixed feelings about what you have said. The sock puppet situation that was going on in the past was really bad and we lost a lot of actual people who took on the challenge of creating content for this platform from the situations that were draining the reward pool. In my opinion it almost destroyed the platform. If I wasn't so stubborn I would have left for good as well. I do agree with you that it does become a high barrier to meet to join Steemit and create content here but honestly in a lot of ways it is always going to be that way in my opinion. Cryto currency is going to be tough for anyone to grasp for a longtime and dealing with it through the exchanges isn't going to get much easier anytime soon.
I agree with you on what you have said about certain users being brought here that had supposed followings and got hugely rewarded why some of us were grinding it out post after post for months and maybe got a couple thousand dollars out of it when a makeup post made $31,000.
Some people feel that we need to make this big push to beg these successful content creators on other platforms to come over here and post. To be honest I could care less. If they want to come then fine but I don't care if they don't come. Even just building this out further within the cryto community can be very lucrative for all of us. I have told some friends about this platform but do I care that they aren't here posting. Not really. It is their loss.
Really when it comes down to it there are like 50 people on here willing to show their faces and there is always going to be drama because people are always going to feel like certain people don't deserve the payouts.
Steemit is a weird place but I love it!
General rule about voting: Mind your own votes.
Some notes about voting the other way around in old, but not obsolete post: Fun with Flags.
PS
I voted for both articles that you are writing about. I agree with @transisto, "the other one" was far better in describing that issue. That's why I voted for it with 10x more than for @kingscrown's post. But here's the thing: I got a chance to read it only because of @kingscrown's post and @transisto's reply.
Totally agree with you about how flagging is not the way to fix things, it never was. And yes, if you do see something that you like more you should vote with higher power. That what will eventually scale.
kingscrown post is about 2 wallets not about 1 wallet, so whole attack doesnt make sense
this posts are not about same topic, they only touch same base but the core of each post is fully different
Sure, I know and you are right. I'm just saying that's all about subjective feelings about post. For me none of them is perfect. Personally I would prefer #science or #kittens... or both.
If a stupid meme make me smile in a rainy day I have all right to upvote it (and of course all others have all right to downvote it).
Making such attacks and whole drama makes no much sense and is waste of time.
BTW, "crab mentality" is already described in the whitepaper.
I agree with you on this, I am just a normal user and just write about stuff I know or care about.
If I get 5 votes or 500 votes what does it matter.
The more time average users get to use Steem the beter they will end up getting at it.
Steemit was not created to be a get rich overnight scheme.
Not pointing fingers at any specific youtubers.
I saw a Youtuber the other day posting literally posting 7 words, nothing else.
When reading it sounds like an incomplete sentence.
What kind of added value is that??
It's ok if their followers are happy to upvote posts like that, since they worked hard to build up supporters on YouTube.
But there should also be a space for average users to build up their own following on here.
As they say practice make perfect, with time average users can also get better at making more valuable content.
Piracy and plagiarism am ok with not being tollerated and being reported.
I am a writer. I also proofread and edit other people's material. But not on a platform such as Steemit. Why? Because it isn't a place for accomplished writers - it appears to be a place for people who want to share a message and connect with like-minded people. If Steemit becomes another place for the popular people to get attention then I will leave. I, too, can show you where many people on YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. get their 100K+ followers. There are some who have a legimate high number of followers, and that's based on long term activity on a platform and providing value to those followers on a regular basis. All it takes is a simple review of their activity to determine if their followers are real people or not.
I am on Steemit because it appears to be a good place for me to share my messages about mindset and success, as well as interesting bits of trivia and history that I find. I'll know soon enough if that is anything anyone is interested in - and if it's not, I'll continue to share on the other platforms.
So, I agree - let that door open and let's meet new people, learn something that can help you become more than who you are right now, and share what you know so that others can grow.
I appreciate your comment. I am not here for professional purposes, nor to join in pop culture worshipfests, but to interact and share my interests with like minded folk.
It seems to me that the downvote is both unnecessary, as simply not voting is potential, and actively harmful. @kingscrown did nothing wrong by posting. He didn't plagiarize, or spam, or lie. He voiced his opinion as he chose.
If the platform penalizes content providers simply because there are competitors, or for any reason, the platform will lose those providers, and that will leave the platform an useless echo chamber of self glorifying populists and money grubbers.
I'll be gone if that happens too.
Soon Steemit will have competition. The current crop of cryptos and popularity of social media indicate plenty of opportunity in the market for more players, and, just as Amazon did to Ebay, or Facebook did to Myspace, these new competitors can learn from mistakes Steemit makes, but doesn't fix.
Thanks!
You are my favorite type of Steemian, that's exactly my point written in better words than mine.
Thanks for the words and the spirit of the platform that attract folks to share like- minded feelings)))
Holy Shit I was saying this last August already .... everyone here wants Steemit to blow up to the masses.
However, the elitism feeling here will not attract the masses .... EVER. You want this to blow up like Facebook? Than you better learn to accept people who are not grammar experts, you should consider up voting other people and their posts who might not exactly be your cup of tea but still is a interesting post that appeals to another sub set of interest.
I took a hiatus for a few months because of this and the behavior here still remains the same as it was back in August last year.
People might not like this but its fact and true, the people here or the system will need to be more accepting and rewarding for this truly to grow into something serious.
You still see the same names/accounts with the high payouts and most payouts, regardless if what they posted has any substance to that post.
The down voting system plays into the whole elitism feeling I referred to above.
I only type this comment now because I would love nothing more to see Steemit blow up to the masses, but fact is it won't happen if Steemit remains mostly a crypto currency medium with select people being rewarded anything meaningful.
You get an 'Amen!'
I wonder if @asshole could find the "Added Value" of my boot up his ass.
Great post. Well written.
Well said these are definitely going to be intersting times ahead! As more people join and more celebrities join then I wonder if we'll start to see group mentality wars, I dunno but whatever it's something special to be a part of!
@joseph, I'll start by saying that I have not been here "since the beginning," so my impressions are based on about 4 1/2 months...
Assorted politicking and and localized "strafing runs" between certain members aside, what I have observed about Steemit is a distinct ambiguity as to "what" this platform really is. Sometimes, it seems like it's trying to be a "social blogging site" along the lines of Xanga in 2005, and sometimes it's a "come all" social network (aka "Farcebook on the blockchain") and sometimes I get the impression it really just wants to be a Reddit variant, right down to the early 2000's user interface.
What's my point? With an ambiguous "target," each new member's perspective on the "right" content to be here will be pretty widely scattered.
Personally? I'm a 20-year blogger and content creator. I was already blowing off Facebook before there was Steemit because I don't like the cesspool of dank memes, photos of tacos and generally shallow selfie-fest that passes for "content" over there. But that's just ME. I am here celebrating a return to social blogging that I have missed for 10+ years... and the likes of which I am finding on the parts of Steemit I seem to use.
I am not the grammar police, nor do I care if you ("global" you) have good English... but I do care whether content is original and feels authentic. An endless ocean of reposted content from elsewhere on the web? Not interested. Besides, where's the "value?" Yeah, I said "value."
Whereas "added value" has perhaps been overblown, value matters. Without "value" of some kind, you're basically dead in the water. Why would anyone use something-- from a restaurant to a web site-- that doesn't add "value" (in some form) to their life? Just saying...
That said, this IS an important discussion you're opening!
I like what you said here .. I just wanted to add something ...
You made some very important points. Steemit is finding it's identity.
Wow, I didn't realize this was still such a problem. You have some great points here. We need to loosen up a little sometimes.
I completely agree with you man. Besides all that you talk about we also need more different content.
as for attracting Twitter accounts with 'thousands' of followers, a lot of those 'followers' are bought. I spent 6yrs. building a Twitter platform and have over 54,000 real followers, but I had to endure months of having my best posts earn pennies. Not a good way to 'attract' potential contributors.
I completely agree with you, thankfully I don't know where anyone here is coming from so I just upvote if I like the content.
I'm fairly new here, so I really don't know enough to comment about what's going on.
But I do know when I see members arguing with other members I think,
"Hey, Steemit really is a social network!"
:)
Congratulations @joseph!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following categories:
Fantastic read I've not been with Steemit long but some of which I have just read rang a bell only today in work I was telling a work mate about Steemit but thought it might be not on a level playing field for everyone ? Perhaps the more people who join might dilute the problem hope so thanks for the article mate
i Didn't really know much about steem blockchain but now I think I have a better understanding than I was.
didn't realise it was such a complicated matter.. bad whales & good whales. Sounds like Buffy now
There will always be people who abuse power, are petty, jealous and downright mean-spirited. You can't change people's character but you can give them something to think about, which you have. Pointing out people's obvious failings mostly doesn't work, I have found. They evolve if they have a life changing event. Until that happens, avoidance works best.
I totally agree with you . All you can do is offer people the truth and its up to them what they choose to do with it.
As a new user, I'm not really aware of this divide or what its about. If people are upset certain users with large followings are getting more upvotes and rewards, we just have to match their level of quality content and build up our own followings. I guess I don't understand the hate!
Very nice post! In a similar situation, I would feel harassed too.
However, the fact is, there is never going to be a phase where everybody likes our posts. We are bound to come across people with genuine disagreement at times and at others, they may be absolutely ridiculous and wrong. There are always going to be haters in any community setting.
Allowing such incidents to affect us, is going to slow our progress here.
I checked out @kingscrown's post and I don't see anything wrong with it. Look at all those upvotes he received. That should tell you something - that nobody can keep a winner down. And look at all the upvotes you have on this post - an indication that people agree with you. :)
Great post! Fairness level should be more controlled or checked. To make actual real good content should be rewarded as it brings added value to the steemit platform. I know I am still a minnow, but I also want to be treated fairly for sharing my content. Thanks for sharing this post!
I'm pretty curious about the future of the general content we'll be seeing on steemit in the years to come... It's still easy to find good original content (about almost anything) and fairly easy to spot the money chasers. This is an excellent post and it shouldn't be a "taboo" subject to discuss, I bet we'll be seeing a lot more discussions on this subject as time goes by. Upvoted, re-steemed and followed.
Somehow the bar must be set. Thank you!
Totally agree with you, no need to downvote something just because someone else wrote a similar post.
Thank you! .....so much! For this
wow, I agree with your honest view point @joseph you said it all. I posted on my page about the limitations of steemit and hope the platform will work on improvements as this platform has the ability to takeover social media if done well. I also like your note about @kingscrown and support of our community. I am new here and fired up in positively promoting steem to the world. Keep it up
Great post. I have been thinking about this "censorship." We all came here for freedom from censors. The bigger Steemit gets the more it can accommodate everyone. We need to learn to be thankful for the opportunity and not envious of what someone may be doing. Variety is the mother enjoyment. I became unhappy to see some super graphic porn showing up, but then I found the mute button. upvote and resteem
Yes, I completely agree. I think it's still early days and the current content of steemit reflects that. As the user-base of steemit grows, and the platform itself matures, we are likely to see significant changes. Firstly, while I have only been here for a few days (yes, not very long), it does appear to be that individuals are motivated to write stories/comments for some financial gain. Fine, that's a legitimate use of this platform as far as I can tell.
I see that these financial incentives drive people to write articles that others will find interesting, which is great. However, for those who don't have anything interesting to write about, or do not think about their audience when writing, these financial incentives may lead them to try produce a higher quantity of articles, rather than a higher quality. Again, what's wrong with that? No one has to read them or comment on them.
But in my opinion, all of this really misses the key use case of the steemit platform. Let's think about this - it is a decentralised platform for sharing stories an information. So.....what centralised companies/industries make their profits from the same service, i.e. sharing stories and information. Well...you might be thinking about FACEBOOK and about ALL CORPORATE NEWS SERVICES, as well as ALL PUBLISHERS. Can anyone see how steemit may disrupt these massive corporations which make their money from people sharing stories as well as accessing current, reliable, factual information.
So, could it be possible that steemit becomes a reputable source for news that replaces existing news sources including the NY Times, Huffingtonpost, Daily Mail, etc? Of course it is, and it NEEDS to happen.
Think about this...many people no longer trust major new corporations as reliable sources of information. And we have good reasons not to. The news disseminated by these profit-driven corporations act to promote the agenda of its stakeholders, and are known to be strongly influenced by the the chief editors' political ties. I don't even need to list the examples of this type of corruption within mainstream media, as I am sure this would be fresh in the minds of most, given it was widely exposed by Wikileaks during the recent US election.
I believe that in the future the key use case of Steemit will be to enables us, the people of the world, to reach consensus on what deserves to be the most disseminated piece of information on a topic by using a distributed system without an editorial board, political ties, or other external influences.
That's a great point, and I fully endorse it. However, it misses another point, which is that Steemit doesn't have to be only one thing. Steemit can be, if it is intended to be, suitable for people that wanna post pics of their dinner, wanna reveal state secrets, talk about finances, or all of the above.
Actually, I only came here for the free cheese, haha.
I agree. For a regular user it might be hard to join Steemit. For me its nice because it approaches most of the subjects that i like, and because i have been in several networks before. But if we are talking about a facebook user this might be scary, because they might think that they must be a writer or a youtuber to join. I also think that everyone is important because there is no writer when there's nobody to read.
Very true!
They have to make this as inviting an simple as possible otherwise people will be disinterested and intimidated and not bother trying the app. Also the password they gave give you is a bit much I get that it's just for security reasons though.
nice
you're right
Interesting point of view...
@joseph - Great thoughts brought down to the core!
Money doesn't change the character of a person it uncovers his true intention.
I'm not in steemit for the money!
I'm not in steemit to promote myself!
I'm in steemit to share my thoughts, my visions, my believes, cause I thought steemit and it's community doesn't care who I am.
I am insignificant on/for this planet - I know, and it's me who gives a damned shit about that fact. I'm in here because I met many extremly talented people... - artists, photographers, musicians, writers...
And I love to strengthen their back; to react to their skills... - their GODGIVEN talent!
If steemit wants to walk the same path as any other outlet did before, it's only a matter of time - when steemit has lost its outstanding possibilty to unite us - WE, steemits creators of a wide variety of impulses shared with each other day by day!
CHEERS!
Nice post. But even though you may say that steemians shouldn't be intimidated by what we find in hot or trending, it will continue to happen. New steemians, like me, can't help but wonder "how can I be taken seriously on a topic that is discused by huge Steemians?" I don't see how can we "open the doors". Maybe I don't get entirely your point but yet I fail to see how the community can improve the situation
Steemit is a social platform, you do not need to be taken seriously. interact with people get followers, reach out. let people know who you are. Social media is about making friends, if you find yourself in a circle looking to make enemies then break away. You could be lucky with instant success or have to work hard at it. Yes I am worried about intimidation, but I have a lot of hope that the communities feature will resolve most of our problems.
I agree with you. This is why most of my posts now are merely of photos. Everyone loves to see my travel photos, and they pay pretty good too. :-) My photos pay much better than anything I could ever write.
10 months ago I started posting on Steemit and I was a total outsider. Never had been involved in Reddit and never played with cryprocurrency, but I'm so glad I jumped in. It was so hard in the beginning for outsiders and I remember the early days. @joseph, thank you for the awesome post and I appreciate you. Steem On
true, censorship sucks...I am here from youtube is for that reason..thanks for the post! upvoted!
Very well said. Interesting points and appreciate your honesty
nice post...