To follow the debate chain: me, him, this post
@positive: Muh Representative Technocracy!
@dwinblood: If enough people felt they were being misrepresented there needed to be a way to quickly recall that representative rather than the slow process we have now. I believe the representative should have the opportunity to explain WHY they voted the way they did, and back it with information.
Nah.
Easy to replace representative = incentive to engage in sophistry
Liars and manipulators would do well under such a system.
How so?: What you need is another layer of representatives that serve as auditors, and get payed when they find flaws. This provides an incentive to be thorough and to not collude with the representatives as the incentives will be orthogonal. @positive: I'd rather pool commission from my capital in a fund which goes to my delegate, so that imposing these disincentives can be done at a cost cheaper to me. @dwinblood: It also does not STOP you from pooling your resources. You can do as much of that as you like as long as it is voluntary between yourself and the other participants. As far as making people stick to the agreement on how that pool should be use, you accomplish that with a contract which all of the participants are signatories. It doesn't stop me but it makes it more costly. Companies have to be set up with coordination from other companies (blockchain registrars and insurance companies, private notaries whatever), or I have to make arrangements on a peer to peer basis. It costs me time, and puts more pressure on me to be efficient -Why risk people not understanding you and losing your position?
How does natural law force you to do anything? That seems contradictory with what I know of natural law.
And that's the secret sauce.
Lest my recklessness cost me money.
I don't want that burden, I don't want to spend my time on admin, and John Smith can have a cut of my capital to handle that weight,.
Hell, I'll even let him skim a bit on top through corruption!
The main point is that we're paying for convenience, - i.e. paying for added time which we can spend on things which we regard as far more rewarding!
@dwinblood: Currently our education is very indoctrination like. It often omits information and selectively steers people towards compliance and conformity [...] This is dangerous in a democratic environment as HOW a person was educated is going to steer how they vote with the exception of a few fringe minority individuals or groups.7
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@dwinblood: This makes Democracy even a Technocratic Democracy unworkable.
I think you make a good point, but you're 20 years late. Formal education is redundant in educating and serves as a daycare centre.
The wealth of information accessible online is far larger than that any institution could possess.
In fact, I would argue children now are far more advanced in cognitive ability and more independent well informed rational thinkers, simply due to the exposure to rich information and digital wheels which allow their hamster-like brains to peddle away through cognitive sublimity...
Point is I don't think ignorance as much a problem as you think.
At least not so much that they can't understand how their interests relate to that of their representatives.
@dwinblood: The Technocratic Democracy could protect the rise of groups who through exceptional power, property, etc could apply force to others (indirect or direct).
In a deregulated world where nothing limits wealth disparity, this will be magnified by orders more than in a technocratic representative government!
Laws based around pre-crime, and what might happen and billed as preventative in reality are based around fear, and risk avoidance. They take away the voluntary choice of people to engage in risky behaviors if that is their choice, and be responsible IF something DOES happen as opposed to being penalized for something that might happen.
I repeat: What's good for the individual is NOT what's good for the system!
Voluntary choice is an abstraction.
It's an ideal which does not benefit the individual, but appeals to notions of equity and fairness.I'll finish with a quote from my initial post:
I'll reply. It may take a bit. :) I'm actually TRYING to make myself work on some external to steemit projects that I allowed myself to neglect due to being excited about steemit. Though I will give you a response it will likely be sometime tomorrow. :)
we are so screwed when our kids are born mommy and daddy working so hard to make ends meet that they have no choice but to allow gov. schools to raise their kids from age of 4. Throughout school you learn that if it was not for gov. we would be eating from unsafe diners and our cars would fall apart on road trips. Then as an adult they tax you for your own good for social security. And then after the extortion when you retirement and your funds are eaten away by inflation the gov. saves the day and gives you your social security benefits from borrowed money from your grand kids. Wow now that's what you call social engineering.
I 100% agree. But the problem lies with the government structure.
Government should be minimalist and truly representative, for efficiency reasons, with technocrats as representatives.
This is not the case right now, it's this overblown, arrogant ponzi scheme, that wants to invade all aspects of life.
Representation is a hoax. And technocrats as representatives seen like a nightmare. What does that even mean. I don't want gov. efficient I want it to be the bumbling idiots it truly are. We have a technocratic elite running the show now. Just as we don't need a department to govern gravity we really do not need a department for human action that does not violate other's rights.
I'm so thankful one of the posts in this thread started trending so I could stumble upon it. I love this stuff!
You put some time and effort into your post. I am trying to do the same, though for me most of the time will be focused on keeping it short. Thus, I am thinking about what you wrote and trying to WEED out my responses and find the one that might truly be interesting. Plus, your approach this time did make it a little bit more difficult for me since you've decided time frames (see your education comment) make a topic TOO LATE. That could be applied to almost everything. 20 years too late. Not sure which event you are referring to there. I can think of a few but most are older than that, and some are newer. Plus, when it comes to too late... not sure we should be discussing any Utopian ideas as I don't think ANY of them will work without fixing education.
Fair enough.
I wanted to say so much more... but I behaved
https://steemit.com/anarchism/@dwinblood/reponse-to-positive-debate-if-you-see-no-blood-is-that-proof-of-no-wound-non-voluntary-system-is-force
Can't wait to read it :)
You also wanted sensationalism so I am trying a different tact than if you and I were just standing around discussing this.
I'm not very fluent in 'memes', could you please translate?
What I'm trying to indicate is a reluctant acceptance of the inevitable; because there is nothing we can do, either individually or cumulatively!! Hence the "rolling" of the eyes and the head turning away in a "here we go again, seen it all before" attitude.