(https://unsplash.com/photos/Zdf3zn5XXtU)
Hi everyone,
Today I have a cautionary tale to tell you; a warning of what not to do here on steemit, but don't worry, because I also fill you in on what you should do as well.
(https://pixabay.com/en/warning-sign-rustic-forest-fall-2545718/(
WHAT EXACTLY IS PROPER IMAGE SOURCING??
Yesterday I applied to be a member of @qurator (for those who don't know about them, here's a link https://steemit.com/qurator/@qurator/qurator-2-0-update-post-guidelines-or-registration-details-or-tier-changes) and this morning, woke to see the STEEM I had sent them returned, and my membership declined.
(https://www.pexels.com/photo/woman-street-walking-girl-2013/)
For those of you who know me, you know that I take great pride in my work here, so I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed. I wallowed at my very own pity party for a few minutes, then decided to investigate further. I sent a message simply asking why.
@brumest - Today at 15:06
Hi,
Your account was declined due to lack of proper image sourcing.
Every image used has to be linked to free to use sites, like pixabay for example.
I am obviously not talking about your own original shots.
I have always used Google Images, but I click on Tools, then Usage Rights and then labeled for reuse,so I'm choosing photos that are ok to reuse. Not good enough.
Then I thought, Where exactly should I get my images from?
HERE'S THE ANSWER FROM THE EXPERT:
@brumest - Today at 15:35
Every time you use an image from the web you need to get it from one of these sites, or any other free to use one:
pixabay, pexels, maxpixel, unsplash.com
And link it to the specific page where you got it from.
Easy as that.
Google is not a source at all
(https://www.pexels.com/search/Right%20and%20wrong/)
Information well worth knowing I'd say!! Too bad I didn't know it when I joined last December, but there's no use dwelling on the past. Now I know.
No actually, now we both know. No more excuses :)
(https://www.pexels.com/photo/box-cheerful-color-cute-207983/)
) (Animated banner created by @zord189)
Okay. To answer the questions of proper attribution—qurator apparently has a specific standard for membership, which should be adhered to if one wants to become a member.
They, however, do not necessarily set the standard for Steemit (or the rest of the Internet). However, if you uphold the highest standard, you really can't go wrong.
There's actually two different things happening. One is attribution, which is providing the image source. The other is permission, which is using images designated for reuse, or modified for reuse, etc.
The convenience of using the listed services is they are already royalty free and mostly designated for personal and commercial use. By virtue of those images appearing on those sites, the actual image producer has given permission/waived their rights to further determine usage.
So, those free sites are the absolute best to avoid permission issues if you can actually find an image that fits your needs.
Otherwise, unless you want to be a member of qurator or some other entity with a specific set of standards, sourcing the image to the page where it came from is fine as long as you're certain you have permission. That might include actually asking. Google isn't the image source ever because they only collect the images into one place for your browsing convenience.
I hope that explains things @magicalmoonlight, @silentdiscourse, @lynncoyle1
Yeah, that makes sense. That's going to be tricky for some of my threads. but it is what it is I guess.
Thanks to @lynncoyle1 for bringing it more to my attention and to you as well @glenalbrethsen!
Now here's an interesting thought.. What about GIFs?
"There is no standing legal decision that specifically determines whether GIFs made from copyrighted material qualify as infringement. When there is a dispute over a GIF and it's original creators, it all comes down to the doctrine of fair use.
Fair use is determined by the nature of the GIF, who created it and its intended purpose. Generally, something is considered fair use when the original material is used for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as commentary, criticism or parody. According to Jeff John Roberts of Fortune, GIFs can be considered “transformative” under copyright law because they do not undermine the market for the original work: “No one, for instance, is going to watch a Star Wars GIF instead of the original movie"
https://modicum.agency/blog/animated-gifs-fair-use-copyright-law/
So, this might in fact be a loophole to any images you'd like to use... Just make them into a GIF... lol
There certainly is a lot of gray area when it comes to a lot of things happening on the internet. Gifs and memes tend to fall more into fair use because they've been altered from their original intent or state. No one really owns it anymore or can claim it after its altered.
A photograph taken by a pro photographer and placed on their website is still in its original state being used for its original purpose, so attribution and permission would be necessary. The same would go for a photo on a news site, or on a number of news sites because they're all sharing the same photo, with attribution and permission.
As far as what could happen in a failure to comply situation, it's normally along the lines of a cease and desist order, though it could go beyond that if the creator wanted to somehow prove that your use infringed upon their ability to profit from their image.
In my mind, it's always better to have your ducks in a row, as inconvenient as that might be. At least for me, having exactly the right image to fit every aspect of my post hasn't made a whole lot of difference.
Thanks for the really clear comments.
Have up voted for visibility.
Your friendly @asapers
Thank you for doing that @shai-hulud! @glenalbrethsen did a great job explaining for sure:)
Again thank you so much for picking up the slack when you saw it here @glenalbrethsen!! Seriously so kind of you! I was off of here for the day and came back to you finishing all of my work for me haha
And so articulate as well! Cheers :)
Oh, I wouldn't call it picking up the slack. It's actually more of a defense (though I don't think I'm much of a lawyer, really :) )
With 15 years of newspapering and officially three years in Social Media (unofficially probably double that), I've learned something about permission and attribution. So, when you related what you were told by the person at qurator, I thought, "No. That's your rules for membership. And they're good rules, but going to one of the free image sites isn't the only way to do it properly."
In other words, it was more of my way of saying, "Aw, come on! Let her in!"
Since others had questions about what you were told, I figured I'd take a crack a that, too. :)
As it is, I'm glad you were able to get out for the day. Aside from whatever personal good that may have done for mind, body and spirit, does that mean you have more sights, sites and insights about Playa del Carmen to post? :)
haha I love your support then!! I kind of thought the same thing, but it's their group, go I've gotta play by their rules ;)
And yes! I took some more pictures and have a funny little story to relay as well. You've just pushed me to start it!
Thank you again..for everything :)
Good one!!
Good question @silentdiscourse...I'm going to defer to my lawyer @glenalbrethsen haha
I think you bring up a really good point about gifs, @silentdiscourse. And what if a gif-maker took a photo from somewhere online, without permission, made a gif and it went viral? Suddenly everyone is using it, and we might not realize that the original photo is unattributed.
I heard that the parents of this toddler were dismayed at first to realize their photo was being used by strangers all over the world, but are ok with it now.
I’m glad you brought that up, because many people don’t know this kind of stuff.
It never occured to me to write a post about this, because after working online for 15 years, a thing like this comes natural to me.
So I really applaud you explained.
I’m resteeming this post to educate my followers :0)
I agree with many of your points, but as you know, it is not the whole story. Can a group require requirements for image sourcing that are not constitutional, or flies in the face of fair use and settled law? I suppose so, but that probably does not make it legal, or right. I have a problem with people representing themselves as experts in the fine points of image sourcing, when in fact there are really very few experts on the subject. I am not saying that I am one either, for if I was my rate of pay would certainly be much higher than it is now. However, the purveyance of bad information (and I am not talking about you) is a poison pill, and it really makes me crazy. It does not make the situation any better, in fact it makes it worse. Wrong is wrong, and it simply ain't right.
As I hope I was pointing out, I found their rules to be a little nitpicky, but I do think they have a right to set standards. It's actually the easiest way out, where attribution is minimal and permission non-existent, so it's hard to find fault with the reasoning. Where my issue with them comes is denying @lynncole1 outright. The conversation should have been, "Hey, our rules are little bit more strict and so would you be willing to source like this?" And then she could have said, Okay," or she could have said, "No, too much trouble," and walked away of her own accord.
As you say, there's more to it but streamlining things within safe parameters as a private entity—I would hope there would be some room for that. :)
I agree, particularly with how the conversation went with @lynncole1. I was also rejected out of hand, for the offense of republishing parts of my own writing, from my own website which I own. I pay dearly for it too, I might add. I did not even know what a cheetah bot was at the time. My worry is that groups like this, though obviously well intentioned, will become too powerful and begin to censor just like Facebook and Youtube is now doing. It would appear (from what I have read of your own writings) that there is a little unethical activity on Steemit. I don't know the answer to that issue, but I know that you certainly don't want to penalize people that are trying to do the right thing. No offense to you. I enjoy your work by the way...Best!
Oh, I would say, based on my own addressing of certain subjects, that there's all kinds of things that could and really should be considered unethical. :) And I've seen the cheetah bot get carried away with what it's determining to be original content, too.
There are people here (because I've read their comments or posts) that would rather others not use even their own content if it's been posted somewhere else. I don't personally subscribe to that because I think you should be able to post anything that's yours. That's the actual definition of original content, not original to Steemit.
So far, everything I've put up has been unpublished elsewhere, but at some point I will be wanting to post some things I previously wrote on Facebook.
If cheetah or other plagiarism bots can't differentiate—especially when you go out of your way to state, "Hey, this is something I wrote on my blog five years go," in the body of the post, then it flat out needs to be reprogrammed to be able to pick up those finer points.
You shouldn't have to prove if it's original content. They should have to prove it's not. And then, the originality needs to stay with the user, not whether or not it was published somewhere else before Steemit.
"That's the actual definition of original content, not original to Steemit."
Thank You, and good points all.
For my part, I am about out of older material. So it's a brave new world now.
I have high hopes for Steemit, and I hope that it stays that way...
Best!
Where were you @glenalbrethsen when I was writing this??? haha
Thank you so much for that well written clarification and explanation. It is much appreciated!!
This is good to know. I use images off Google but I go to the actual page they came from and source from there. I'm sorry you were declined, that's a bummer!
Gday just a heads up.
You can still get done sourcing that way make sure you sellect marked for re-use in googles image search tools
Thank you @magicalmoonlight; they did say I could reapply in two weeks and that the image sourcing thing was my only problem. So now I have a goal again...It will eventually work out I'm sure!
Gday mate.
Great post that more people need to know about.
Just quick heads up the lady in the party hat might still get you refused as its is an advert for shutterstock a royalty-free but not creative commons service.
You can pretty much assume that any image with water marks and logos across it needs to have a licence purchased for use.
Quick tip rather than have those long http addresses you can make if look neater by using the following formatting.
[Source](image source link here)Then you will just get this under your image.
Source
Ah geez really?? I think I'll edit my post and get rid of it or replace it then. My intentions are good, but my knowledge is obviously lacking in this department :) Thank you so much for pointing it out!
And thank you a million times for showing me how to format that! I've always wondered, but never got any further than that! I really appreciate your help here, and of course your support through @asapers!
Its all good it's easy to confuse on sites like pixabay who make their money advertising for the commercial sites.
That formatting will work for any link eg if you wanted to link people through to one of your previous posts you can do the same and not have http cluttering up your page
That tip is going on my next "invaluable tools" post! Thanks again.
I probably should change the photo though, seeing as this is the post that proves I've learned my lesson :)
lol, yeah changing the photo would be best, I thought you were trying to prove a point of what not to use in that first image, Totally missed it until @shai-hulud reread as part of the curation post. :)
haha thanks. Going to do that right now while I'm thinking of it!
Good effort on your post @lynncoyle1 it's great to reflect in tge feedback and learn a little while you go! That's awesome to be open to tweaking your work to make it right. Helps to learn by doing! It's good we get a 7 day window to make the changes to our post to convey the message we want to share! Kudos 🎉
And, congrats on being selected by the @asapers! You can take away one win!! As a member of that group i am here to offer encouragement and support to you!! And, wishing you better luck at winning a spot with @qurator next time you apply!!
Good to know how to do that! Thanks Shai!
Hmmmmm......I've been giving credit at the bottom of my post.....so now I need to source each photo and the exact page link from that free site...Okay....Great stuff her girl! Thank you!
Actually, I think you can do that too! I should have specified that I think!
I think I'll start doing it like you described that way I'll be sure to cover my bases!
Yep! Learn from my mistakes for sure! Glad you found it helpful :)
I've been doing it all wrong too it seems.
In my last few posts, I've linked the image source (the web pages I got the images from), but I'm still doing it wrong?
Thank goodness @glenalbrethsen came to the rescue hey?? I step away for one day and this ....:)
That's one of the things I love about this platform though! Notice no negativity! My buddy jumped in and answered your question beautifully...it's a great thing !
Absolutely. Team work makes the dream work! lol
You know it!
I’m curious how fair use applies to photoshopping images. Like memes, creating photoshopped images falls into the gray area of fair use.
How much would you have to edit an image for it to be considered artistic? Would cropping out a background and plugging a character in a new scene qualify? Memes just require a few words on an unaltered image, it seems.
I like to take 5 or more photos and splice them into a single scene. I use sites like pexels as much as I can, but sometimes I want to use a famous character. Does this require permission/accreditation for each photo? I assume yes.
Man the grey area just got greyer
Grey is right! Have a look at @glenalbrethsen's comments above; he totally explains about gifs and memes. It was very helpful and something I didn't even think about when I was writing this! So thanks for bringing it up as well!
This is a very good post. Thanks for sharing this. Now I know where to go to when i need free-to-use pictures. thanks once again!!!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you found it useful. @gillianpearce (in the comments here) just told me about Canva as well, so you can add that one to your list too!
I understand the intent of your post, and I thank you for that, but on the surface, I would disagree. Surely there must be something wrong here, and I would like to differ with the so-called expert. I have been a blogger and a website publisher for several years, a writer, and a rare book and autograph dealer for decades.
There is much information in the literature on the ins and outs of fair use. There are numerous sources for free to use images, and many images are in the public domain. I have researched enough to know that the issue is much too complicated for blanket statements. In many cases it is unsettled law, and gray areas abound. Sorry, but @brumest is wrong, if it is implied that this these are the only places to find images to use on Steemit. If you think not, I want to see the law credentials and proof of expertise on copyright law. Obviously, a group can make up whatever rules they wish, I guess, but don't represent it as if someone has done something wrong if they don't follow your guidelines. That is bullying, and misrepresentation, and endorses the very same behavior that you wish to police. I too was denied, unfairly I might add, and I am not happy about it, for similar reasons that you mentioned, and others. I would love to hear more discussion on the subject...
Hey there @huntbook! I appreciate your comments and your opinion, but I don't have the experience that you do, so I can't really comment. The criteria given to me by @brumest was the first set of criteria I'd really seen here, and to be perfectly honest, if that's their rules, then those are the ones I'm prepared to follow if I want to be a member of @qurator. I know there's a lot of folks like me here that are happy to have a set of rules to follow regarding photo use because, like I said, we don't have the knowledge and experience that you do. I'm learning as I go, but if you wanted to do a post of your own explaining your thoughts on proper sourcing, I'd love to see it and I'd love to see the discussion there. Maybe you're not the only one who feels this way. However, I am open to more discussion if anyone wants to comment here for sure though.
No worries, I just wanted to point out my view on the matter, and the dangers of someone purporting to be an expert on such a complicated subject (again, I am not talking about you). I am all for transparency, permissions, and proper attributions. I have gone far out of my way over the years to do so.
I am also a libertarian, an independent, and a free speech advocate, and I won't be bullied with color of law, here or elsewhere. What would be the point of continuing to post on Steemit if someone presumes to impede my freedom of speech, and then denies me access to audience? The denial of my right to use images that are in the public domain to illustrate my work, as an example, is certainly one of those.
A lot of people have made up there own rules on a variety of matters - you see it everyday in the news. Many times they have received a serious education in the courts too.
Just saying...
I hear you loud and clear; you make a valid point for sure! And thanks for clarifying that you weren't talking about me haha Maybe as I learn more, I'll be able to take a stand on these types of things, but I totally appreciate you opening my eyes to it all ;)
Appreciate that. It's all about the discussion, and communication, right? Best!
It certainly is!! And I feel bad not to upvote, but my voting power is soooo low right now ugh. It's an ongoing problem for me ;) Considering the content we were discussing, I didn't want you to think it was anything intentional! Have a great day :)
I never gave it a thought, but I do see that I completely missed what I should have said at the beginning. You should have been admitted to Qurator, as should I have been, and probably others. What I can say is - shame on them...
This is extremely valuable information!!!! Resteeming, upvoted... wish i had more to give!!
I was thinking about this the other day!!
Oh I'm so glad you found it helpful! Thank you for the resteem and upvote, and please don't worry about giving more; your obvious appreciation is all I really need ;)
Thank you for sharing your experience. I've also recently started using pixabay and find they have good images to use.
Oh you're welcome! If I can help someone not walk down the same path as me, it'll all be worth it :)
Congratulations @lynncoyle, your post has been selected by the @asapers for a resteem and a feature in our brand new curation post. Issue 19
What does this mean for you? Well first an upvote from some members of the team, we are no @curie but who is going to be unhappy with some extra upvotes. Second each post featured in the article will receive a 10% share of the curation post.
Keep up the great work and please consider supporting the @asapers with a follow and an upvote on the post you feature in. Please wait seven days for payout.
Your friendly @asapers
Giving back A.S.A.P
Thank you so much for this! I saw my name appear in the Issue..notified by @ginabot (who I love by the way!!:); I already paid a visit to your Issue post. It's great work you are doing and I appreciate the support for sure!!
Image use is a bit more complicated than that. You basically have to have permission to use the image. In order to check if you have permission, it's good to cite the image source. Additionally, it's a requirement of some licenses. But you also have to check the license to see if you really can use the image, and if you need to do anything in regards to how you use it.
The Shutterstock image you used, is not licensed, and even if you had licensed it, you would have had to include the copyright under it.
Thanks for the input here @geekpowered! If you have a second, check out @glenalbrethsen's comments above to see if they go along with what you're saying. Thanks again :)
I tried to join @qurator too and got declined because of the same reason as you. The pictures from the free websites are very limited, but if we want to join, it's one of the things we gotta work around with.
Oh that's too bad. Have you reapplied yet? They told me two weeks and apply again and if I've "corrected" the issue, everything else is fine!
I know it sometimes feels like I can't get quite the right image I'm looking for, but like you said, gotta work around it!
They told me to re-apply after 2 weeks. So we have to make sure all of our images from now on are properly "sourced".
Exactly! It was brought to my attention that the photo I had here of the sad girl with the party hat on might be flagged as not properly sourced because in faint letters written on the photo was something about advertising for "shutterstock" and I was told that you can't use those either! I switched it out ;) Check out the comments from @shai-hulud and @insideoutlet above.
Check out the warning sign too hun x It's so hard to see the watermarks sometime. In pixabay always avoid the top line. Your pretty safe after that. 😁
Omg, I can't believe that!! Now I see it :) Thank you again..I'm just shaking my head here!
Thanks for the tip too about avoiding the top line on pixabay! Good to know. When the time comes that I make it into qurator (because I will;), I'll have to include you guys in my acceptance speech haha
I think those with some sort of signature below (which can very small at times) cannot be taken as well. Gotta pay attention to those pictures too.
There's so many things you have to watch out for!!
Safest bet is use your own pictures ;P
Sorry to hear you got caught out @lynncoyle1. We who follow you know that you would never intentionally misuse an image. 😢 Are qurator going to reconsider?
Pexels is not one I've used before so I will add that to my list. Another one I use frequently is Canva for when I'm creating an image with words although I notice others just use the image as is.
Great article! 😍
I'll have to check out Canva...thanks for that!
Yes, they said I could reapply in two weeks because that was my only 'short-coming'...on here anyway haha
Thanks @gillianpearce; always appreciate you stopping by!
Glad you can reapply. You get in easily next time! 😍
Thanks so much for the vote of confidence @gillianpearce! Glad you're in my corner ;)
Thanks for this info. I'm a newbie trying to learn, so NOW I know!
I'm so glad you found it helpful; be sure to take the time and read through all of these comments...so much more information came out here that I was unaware of!
And welcome to steemit!! Have you heard of @newbieresteemday or @greetersguild yet? They are both here to support and mentor new and not-so-new folks here. I'm a member of @newbieresteemday and we of course work together with the greeters guild too. Let me know; if not, I'll help you out for sure. Or if you have any questions about anything, you know where to find me :)
Thank you for this. Good to know. And now that I can't un-know it....best to do accordingly ;)
Exactly! No excuses now :)
Thanks for the post. It is timely that steemians especially take note of proper image sourcing. I have seen some misunderstanding in this issue.
Some provide an image source like pixay.com and argue that is good enough.
Fortunately there are group that out this knowledge right
Ch
Thank you @digitalmind; feel free to share my post if you see someone needs the information ;)
You have been up-voted by @rentmoney because @eye-am-a-mason nominated your post in our Followers Appreciation Promotion.
An up-vote bot will be along shorty to give you an extra up-vote !
The 4 rules used to determine Fair Use ...
Super helpful post, @lynncoyle1, and all the steemians who replied with more bits of information on this topic. The link was shared on the Steemit Ramble Discord channel when a lively discussion came up about photos. :-)
ahh I wondered how it came up. Thank you!
:-)
This post is a prime example of the problems with a 7-day shelf life for posts. A content creator should reap the rewards for something that will be useful to readers, for as long as it remains pertinent, not just for 7 days.
I think a better system would be if upvotes were free to use (so we could spread more of them around on all the posts and comments we come across), but that there's a TIP button, allowing a reader to tip the writer... and for this tip button to be active for all perpetuity.
I agree! That's actually a really good idea ;)
I've been thinking about somehow re-doing this one because it is really making the rounds, and you're right, it is helpful forever!
I think that sounds like a good idea, to use the info you compiled, plus other info you've picked up, and do another post. It could be very useful to a lot of people, particularly newbies.
I wonder what happens if you use some of your same text, along with new info... does that sometimes-mistaken cheetah bot leave a comment?
I think I'm going to try it and see what happens. Probably if I make a reference to an earlier post and why I'm re-doing it, it'll be fine. I know that cheetah can pay a visit and then "real" people actually investigate it to see if there's any merit to it. So I'm sure it would be fine! Stay tuned... :)