RE: Swarm Theory: A Practical Theory of Everything

[meno]

Very interesting Andrew, I already follow you, so "no further action is needed" but I do find this subject fascinating. I'm curious as to the pragmatic implementation of the idea, but I have a brain teaser for you.

Can't remember where I heard this, but I suspect you will enjoy thinking about this too.

Imagine a boat that has been in service for 80 years. Naturally this boat has needed a lot of work to continue to be operational. Over the span of the decades almost every single piece of the boat has been swapped, replaced, improved.

Is it still the same boat?

If we are the result of information, if we evolve, if we replace our ideas for "better ones" - change our convictions even (possibly once in a lifetime at least) - Are we the same person? And if we are? How? Why?

Anyways...

Great read my friend. Glad you are back.

Comments

[andrarchy]

Great question! I was actually considering giving a very similar example! Every cell in our body is eventually replaced, so are we the same person? I believe Bernardo Kastrup’s analytical idealism will be most consistent with Swarm Theory. Basically this holds that the perceived barriers between things (e.g. the boat, the body) are “dissociative boundaries” within a unified “mind at large.” In Swarm Theoretical terms, boats and bodies are both swarms of information processing nodes. Creating information processing nodes which aggregate into swarms which themselves become information processing nodes, and so on, is how the universe scales consciousness and better understands itself. But Swarm Theory is still a work and progress, so working this all out in public and integrating the relevant science is part of what this journey is all about! So feel free to share your thoughts, feedback, and anything you think might be relevant.

[kenny-crane]

You may be thinking of the Ship of Theseus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

I was talking to a relative over Christmas holiday about this. We were talking about consciousness and how it is an emergent property of brains, much like digestion is an emergent property of stomachs and intestines. I was saying that I'd have no problem becoming a robot bit by bit as my broken bio parts are replaced by whatever high tech the future brings. As long as it happens bit by bit, I'll never lose conscious identity and I'll consider myself one entity from birth to this future robot version of me.

So I'd say yes, same boat/body/being. But operating in a different sea of information if we have upgraded our behavior and thought processes for better ones.

Cool stuff to contemplate! :)

[savvytester]

If I recall correctly what I read online, the cells in the brain are completely replaced by new cells in roughly six months, for which some say that a person is "replaced" by a new one after about half a year. 🤔🧘‍♂️🤯🤯🤓 !WEIRD !LOLZ

[andrarchy]

There is actually no proof that consciousness is an emergent property of brains. This is just a faulty assumption many have because they don't realize their worldview is fundamentally materialist. This is so ingrained that most people don't even know what materialism is and that there is an alternate worldview that many brilliant people hold (idealism).

[kenny-crane]

Well I'm a materialist so that explains why I said what I said. :)

materialism, in philosophy, the view that all facts (including facts about the human mind and will and the course of human history) are causally dependent upon physical processes, or even reducible to them.

Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/materialism-philosophy

Of course I may be wrong! I will be reading what you post in your series on swarm theory. I love to learn about many different points of view. I will change and adapt when I get new information if I see that it leads me in a new direction. I am not married to my current beliefs. Wherever the data goes, I'll go too.

I think saying "many brilliant people hold" some point of view is a bit of an appeal to authority or popularity.

The phrase "many brilliant people hold some idea" can be interpreted as an appeal to authority. This fallacy occurs when a claim is assumed to be true because it was made by a perceived authority figure, without critically examining the authority's relevance or reliability. While it may suggest that the idea is supported by knowledgeable individuals, it can also be seen as a form of appeal to popularity, where the belief is accepted simply because many people share it, bypassing the need for evidence. Therefore, while it may indicate that the idea is supported by experts, it is essential to critically assess the authority and the evidence behind the claim.

Source: copilot AI

However, I also use this, quite often! It makes sense to me to know what brilliant people are thinking, and why they think it.

You're smart, well spoken and accomplished, so I will be reading what you write on this topic. I've been reading your posts for almost 10 years now, and I have learned a lot. Thanks!

[andrarchy]

I didn't mean to suggest that I know this perspective is right. I just think a lot of people would be surprised to hear some of the names who hold idealist views.

[andrarchy]

Thanks for the kind words and for expressing an interest in what I have to say! It means a lot especially since I am trying to motivate myself to write more and create more content!

[kenny-crane]

I hope you do create more content; I'm planning on reading all of it.

Wishing you all the best!