You have said you genuinely wanted to understand the other side.
You talk a lot about integrity and morality, but it not clear what moral code you are referring to - there are many.
The US Founding Fathers were religious Christians and founded the United States on Judeo-Christian morality.
Religiously observant Christians and Jews, who practice Judeo-Christian morality, voted overwhelmingly for Trump (Orthodox Jews by 80%).
They did this because the Democratic party has become strongly influenced by its extreme left elements including Antifa, BLM and The Squad who are constantly attacking traditional Judeo-Christian morals and practices.
The massive erosion of traditional Judeo-Christian values and practices by "progressive" values and practices over the past 60 years is extremely concerning to them and Obama and Biden have openly supported more and more attacks.
So when you use these words like morality, integrity, established norms and wishes of the Founders, you are assigning meanings to these words that are NOT what Trump voters mean by them.
You are entitled to your own morality and values but the "progressive" morality and values that you espouse are NOT the values and morality on which the USA was founded, nor those of most Trump supporters.
If you want to understand the other side start with the basic understanding that their morals and values may be fundamentally different from yours.
@ironshield @bearbear613 @smithlabs may wish to comment on this.
In the situation that this country faces at this moment, the one thing we ALL should be looking for is intellectual honesty.
When allegations of Russian Collusion were made, there were almost FOUR YEARS of investigation and after the investigation didn't find anything of substance, and Trump was acquitted, many did NOT have the intellectual honesty to admit there was nothing there and continued believing Trump was "in the pocket of Putin".
Now allegations are made of massive voter fraud, it's been ONE WEEK of investigation so far and already incredible amounts of evidence is showing up, enough to recognize what actually happened. Yet many do NOT have the intellectual honesty to even allow the suggestion that a massive crime has occurred across multiple states and they believe that the results of the election are in.
Intellectual honesty is supposed to be the one value that all Americans have in common, no matter what their political affiliation is.
no reason to comment you said everything I would have said
The meaning of the word "INTEGRITY" is clear. Trying to overturn an election where you believe that the results were correct lacks all integrity.
If Trump voters don't recognize that as integrity . . . .
Does YOUR morality agree with Trump's treatment of immigrants on the Southern border? I'm not asking if he can legally get away with it. Do YOU feel that separating children from parents, performing hysterectomies on unsuspecting women, etc. is EVER justified.
Your entire argument is strawmen.
If the meaning of the word "integrity" becomes "holding true to your beliefs", then "integrity" becomes subjective and has no relation to the external truth anymore. At that point, the very word "integrity" looses it's integrity.
Yes, according to "their truth" Biden won the election. But what if there is evidence that they are wrong? Does their belief make them correct?
If there was no evidence of fraud, then intellectual honesty on both sides would cause them both to accept the outcome, like in 2008 and in 2012. As it stands, claiming and celebrating a victory, while 47 electoral votes are still undetermined, lacks integrity and it is nothing more than play-acting with no substance behind it.
If the tables were turned, do you think the left would be OK with Trump shooting off fireworks in a contested election?
Who said I believed the results are correct? There are no certified results.
I believe Trump won the majority of legal votes in all disputed States.
Talk about straw man arguments. You put words in my mouth. Is this integrity?