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5 years ago in #utopian-io by crokkon (69)
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Can you make decent money with it?
After about 2 weeks I get ~0.5 Steem each day. And I consider myself as quite low. I've spent 2.4 Steem overall, so I am already making profit. Not getting rich of course. But it's kinda fun and a little extra
Go and create an account using my referral, and then I can tell more about it LOLL =)
You just convinced me to stay away, buddy.
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That’s one of the things I don’t like about Steem.
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If you show me a way where I can make more -- I'm stopping right away.
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I already delegated to ActiFit and I would have kept my delegation, but then the difficult times hit and now I need to get money spendable right now since ActiFit isn’t traded on any exchange just yet.
Believe me, for me this is painful as well.
I didn’t self-upvote my self for a year having even a higher stake, but it’s not my fault that such hard times for Crypto came. I was pushed in a corner.
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No you can’t ... here’s an example !bookkeeping drugwars
Please use one of the following keywords after !bookkeeping:
yep, I have started 21 days ago, I have invested 14.622 STEEM and I earned 17.049 STEEM from daily and 8.019 STEEM from heist which totally gives me 10.446 STEEM of pure profit with incomes around 1.18 STEEM per day. I was break even after two weeks. It is important to know what is worth your money and what is not and can be upgraded normally in the game
Really? So, if I invest 1,400 Steem — I’ll make 1,000 Steem of pure profit in 21 days?
What are the risks?
Can I lose all my initial investment instead of earning anything?
Most likely it is almost impossible to invest 1400 Steem and earn 1000 Steem of pure profit in 21 days. Size of the rewards decreases every day and those rewards are generated from the resources in the game and shared reasonable with all the participants. If drugwars have a small payout budget and there is a lot of players which are not investing anything anymore, then sooner or later it might appears some problems with fulfilling your expectations. Without a smart management plan about spending some Steem during the first steps in the game, it is possible that you can lost a lot instead of earning. I have also heard about guys which made a full cashback in 7 days, so everything is up to you and your investing plans.
Hey @crokkon,
Thank you for your interest in DrugWars and for this analysis. We are also sad to see so many automated actions ingame and are working hard to counter them and/or to make them useless. With a total of 11k players we can't let some people ruin the fair and the fun of the majority of the DrugLords.
Best regards,
I wonder if there is a way to prove an awesome, genuine, player like myself is actually who I say I am?
What if there were "Proof of brain" airdrops or something?
I am not sure how it would work. Maybe create whitelist or something?
Make us turk something potentially useful! Use our army of capcha warriors to do real work that puts something back into the heist pool!
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Hey @drugwars, before all congratulations for the great experience and game growth you acquired. I think it safe to say this project was a success since day 1.
But with all the success it would be obvious it would have people that always try to be more clever than the system and it's a good time to double down on the security. Otherwise, real players will not have a fair sensation while playing or spending time on the game.
If I may advise, you could start to implement reCaptcha v3.0, since now it's a really seamless experience and always analyze all the players vs bots movements in a quick and clean way without any confirmation or pop-ups needed to be a field or check. That way real players can keep have fun while the number of bots is reduced or even banned. This is just a short term patch I really recommend you as well to implement your own security measures like a blacklist of recurring bots and false players and other methods that make the game a safe place for all and promote a fair and fun place to be a part off.
@drugwars you made an amazing job (for yourself)
the game is actually quite nice in the beginning ... but the rewards are way to low ... and the degradation of earned value goes downward way to fast.
I am a human player, with no bots or gazillions of steem sitting somewhere, and i was in the game quite early, and spended over a 100steem, just to realize that after you have build something of a little empire, these prices and the recourse needed get’s way out of hand. It is really way to crazy and expensive. We are not all whales with gazillions of steem to spend like it is nothing!!!
Also i have noticed that you change things on the fly. And after the battles were back, you raised the price for troops significant.
So, it is safe to say that ... The only winner with drugwars are the drugwars devs and with that conclusion, i take my hat of for you
scash!tip 100
⚡$$$ Tipped @crokkon
⚡100.00000000 SWIFT! If you don't know how I work, replyhelp! Currently the price ofSwiftCashin the market is$0.0031 USDperSWIFT. Current value of the tip is$0.3100 USD. To find out more aboutSwiftCash, please read our whitepaper!The change which is require to login to websocket API takes about 5-10 lines of code. From my perspective it was made not to limit access to API but to help drugwars team find user names of players who are abusing the API.
The problem is that it in reality it doesn't change anything, for 6 STEEM you can buy a new Steem account and use it only to find players with cheap resources by calling get_user method. This info you pass to army of bot. The bot attacks looks then legit because no abuse of API is done by them :( You will have to only regular buy new accounts which will be banned for abusing the get_user method.
From my perspective identifying and banning bots is waste of time, instead of developing the game the team has to do some statistic analysis :( Instead of this number of user actions should be limited for e. g. 20 attacks a day, or only 1 attack in time frame of 2h . Maybe a captcha should be added before each attack.
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I think some anti-bot tools could be tweaked to work offline too, via temporary information read from/via blockchain. Either way, decentralizing anti-cheating on STEEM can be a hard to do thing. Maybe it would be something to address (if not already done) on SMT's.
For example, the player @qurator-tier-1-2 has already some bots. I can never attack this one anymore. On top of this, the player itself is part of a bot on STEEM, which makes all this very hard to manage.
Although I agree limiting will reduce the bots, it will never avoid them. And because of the capability of STEEM accounts, it would not work. People will just create more accounts to have strategic scripts working on them.
I think that should be a "luck" aspect to when a player attacks. Like a sliding scroll (anti-bot features), or something like @properfraction said "Maybe a captcha should be added before each attack", and if during that period, more than 1 player slides successfully the scroll, a roll is done, to which one attacks. This will both kill bots and also allow attacks to be fair (in my view).
FYI @drugwars
Hey, friend.🙂 First, uh, of course a HUGE thanks for the follow! Greatly appreciated. Then, i swing by your place to get to know you a bit....and this is the first thing i see. An amazing analysis with some great insight. I love reading ashers stuff. And, while in the middle of your post, for a second there thought i was reading him.(sorry, if thats offensive to you.)😁
Then i laughed my butt off when i dropped down to the comments...and there he is...the first guy, right on top. I'd love to say im surprised, but my grandpa always said,"money knows money boy, and smart men know smart men." So, not surprised....but really happy to see. Now i have an excuse to ramble to him too.
And as far as if theres bot or not, im okay either way. I keep all my accounts' resources below the "safe" line and i dont attack people. One, because it's just mean, and two, it just seems a horrible waste of resources.(just my opinions. 🤪) i try to just build build all the accounts as much as possible to help others. No time for yhe silly squabbling. 😂🤣 anyway, as i reread this, i noticed its starting to look more and more like a post. All thats missing is a picture. Oh, hang on i have one of those too....
Yep, me pretending to be Spiderman.... for my son. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT AND A GREAT WEEK BROTHER!
P.S. @abh12345 i was talking about you, so figured I'd tag you.😋
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haha :)
Well I hope crokkon isn't too offended, and if so I will have to get better at copying his analysis work!
On the photo I can't quite fathom which way is up and can only conclude that you are performing a single hand stand :D
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I am actually about to release something to help people perform automated actions in Drug Wars. Scripting in itself is not bad, I don't agree that people should be scripting attacks, but many of the online games I've played like this have a community with scripting.
A game I've played for years called Kings of Chaos has many scripts for macroifying game play. I think for DW scripting to automatically invest and buy units is fine (imo) scripting to auto attack or create multiple accounts and harvesting Steem is obviously bad.
Good analysis.
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Any scripting gives an advantage to small pool of players, so it is a form of cheating!
When you do some scripting in a normal game I can accept that because other players are only loosing their time. The difference between normal game and drugwars is that here you are awarded with real money (steem is just like money), so it is not a cheating but obviously it can be called form of steeling from others.
Imagine what would happen if come to casino (where you can also win real money) and cheat there or just use some tools to win more?
Precisely. =) And when laws become very conformable dealing with these techs, it will be crime! Write that down! 🤣 - I am joking with it, but its not that far away to happen... and its pretty easy to do/implement.
You have a valid point here. However, I think such automation merely will force the Drug Wars team hand to make the game less two-dimensional and introduce other ways to make money and grow, invalidating the need for automating heist invests or unit creation.
It's a flawed game right now.
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Thank you for this post. I actually started complaining about it in the drugwars post yesterday to get a debate going.
Unsurprisingly bot users argue it is fair and it is the future.
I am glad @drugwars has spoken on thee issue.
Even a heist bot has a huge advantage as they don't need to do anything else in life but himans do.
For those already using relatively harmless bots, I don't think they deserve a ban, but moving forward, it should be stopped on at least one server.
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Thanks a lot for the data... I was curious too ;-)
There are humans, bots... but also 1 mannequin playing the game, haha!
Big hug
Steemitri The Mannequin
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Very good analysis. I wouldn’t have thought bot ratio would be that high at this point but in any game you will find bots. So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. I’m in the game and not running any scripts so 💯 human here. Wonder how long I will survive.
Scripting will get MUCH worse with time... Just remember OGame!... I could have weeks without checking my account, and always have my ships/resources protected...
I am not saying its the best or worse path to take, it depends... But I would prefer for the "Humanized" non-scriptable one, to be the one STEEM can actually bring more value into these kinds of games.
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Thank you for the information! I've been curious about bots and DrugWars... It is not surprising...
GREAT POST! i had to read every word of it! the charts and everything, really nice work! thanks for sharing! :D
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Why can't I fight any1 you get this bug?
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Great thanks a lot ok so u basically just need to keep finding fights thanks hopefully I am quicker than the bots you mentioned
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I would not of thought the numbers of scripted users would be that high either. 100% human in my account.
Posted using Partiko iOS
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It’s a fun to play so I rather be in control. I know many just use the game to make passive income so I could see why you want to automate it.
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@crokkon you rock!
I'm in the game as well and this is some interesting data to read :)
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Thanks. This analisys is very interesting. I'm developing a new game for Steem and this information is very useful to me. I don't like game bots!
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Thanks! Give a try to Blender and keep in mind that every trip, even longest, starts with a first step.
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This post has been included in the latest edition of SoS Daily News - a digest of all the latest news on the Steem blockchain.
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This was very enlightening @crokkon, thanks. Hop they manage to get it under control.
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Where can I find the complete list of all API methods? The github sample usage examples illustrates only a few.
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This was an early concern of mine, thanks for taking the time to make a report.
Good work. How long did it take to extract all signers?
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Thank you for the interesting analysis. While I haven't played yet, based on scripts opened and the structure of the game, I actually expected much higher bot ratio :)
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One reason why I thought that way was those who can do programming, they don't usually have only one account :) Ah! actually those who can do coding, they don't have enough money or SP to create too many accounts! and they're always late :)
ps. Detecting subaccounts will be an interesting analysis.
And I actually didn't know that Drugwars is open-source. Probably only part of it, right?
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Thanks again!
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Congratulations @crokkon!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
Hell! When I spend hours scroling down the list of potential targets for an atack, they simply use automation to hide their drugs and create units.
Of course human players may lose interest in this game
!bookkeeping drugwars
Hi @piergianni!
drugwars
Received:
Spent:
Total:
First transfer was before 18.58 days.
Your ROI per day is 0.13 % and you are earning approx. 0.05 STEEM per day.
Break even in approx. 777.3 days.
!bookkeeping drugwars
Hi @doloknight!
drugwars
Received:
Spent:
Total:
First transfer was before 27.39 days.
Your ROI per day is 17.44 % and you are earning approx. 0.01 STEEM per day.
!bookkeeping drugwars
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Hi @rollie1212!
drugwars
Received:
Spent:
Total:
First transfer was before 23.34 days.
Your ROI per day is 4.69 % and you are earning approx. 2.02 STEEM per day.
ROI when taking only the last 5 days into account
Your ROI per day is 2.86 % and you are earning approx. 1.23 STEEM per day.
Congratulations @crokkon! You received a personal award!
Thank you for taking part in the early access of Drugwars.
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!bookkeeping drugwars
Hi @gyanibilli!
drugwars
Received:
Spent:
Total:
First transfer was before 9.00 days.
Your ROI per day is 2.72 % and you are earning approx. 1.23 STEEM per day.
Break even in approx. 27.7 days.
ROI when taking only the last 5 days into account
Your ROI per day is 0.96 % and you are earning approx. 0.43 STEEM per day.
Break even in approx. 79.0 days.
Does anyone know if there is a search for players? Thanks again Mark
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Hey do you know of a target search engine please for @drugwars? Thanks again Mark
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Damn, I got infected by a Steem virus. Sorry to !sneeze at you 😪
You have been infected by the King of Disease!
Will you quarantine yourself?
Or will you spread the plague?