yeah, one example is the 6 nations of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois . The Onondaga Nation is located outside Syracuse, NY
The Onondaga Nation is a sovereign nation of people with its own government. This government has been in existence for countless centuries.
Like other member-nations of the Haudenosaunee, the Onondaga Nation survives today as a sovereign, independent nation, living on a portion of its ancestral territory and maintaining its own distinct laws, language, customs, and culture.
Today, the Onondaga Nation consists of a 7,300-acre territory just south of Syracuse, on which it maintains its sovereignty and operates outside the general jurisdiction of New York State. The Nation is still governed by a Council of Chiefs, selected in accordance with its time-honored democratic system. In the same vein, many Onondagas practice traditional ceremonies and adhere to religious philosophies and social customs that long predate contact with Western civilizations. Aspects of this ideology have been incorporated into America’s legal system, as well as into its culture. Personal and societal consideration of the Seventh Generation is but one example of a Haudenosaunee world view that has informed, enhanced and enlightened American and other national cultures.
As an independent, sovereign government, the Onondaga Nation government does not pay income, sales, or excise taxes to New York State or to the federal government, nor does it receive any of the benefits paid for by these taxes.
Unlike several other New York native nations, the Onondaga Nation has chosen not to become involved in the casino business or other gambling ventures; instead, the Nation operates a tax-free smoke shop, which funds many community projects, including Onondaga language classes, a fire department, a Nation water system, a healing center, a waster transfer station, and a multi-purpose arena.
https://www.onondaganation.org/government/ .
The Onondaga Nation and the Haudenosaunee have never accepted the authority of the United States to make Six Nations citizens become citizens of the United States, as claimed in the Citizenship Act of 1924. We hold three treaties with the United States: the 1784 Treaty of Fort Stanwix, the 1789 Treaty of Fort Harmor and the 1794 Treaty of Canandaigua. These treaties clearly recognize the Haudenosaunee as separate and sovereign Nations. https://www.onondaganation.org/news/2018/the-citizenship-act-of-1924/
Although physically situated within the territorial limits of the United States today, native nations like the Onondaga Nation and the other members of the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Confederacy, retain their status as sovereign nations. Like the United States, the Haudenosaunee is a union of sovereign nations joined together for the common benefit of its citizens. Governed by a Grand Council of Chiefs who deliberate and make decisions for the people concerning issues both domestic and international, the Haudenosaunee began as a confederacy of sovereign nations aligned to deal with other native nations surrounding their lands and, later, to negotiate with Europeans when the latter came into their territories beginning in the early 1600’s. https://www.onondaganation.org/government/sovereignty/
If you want to know how the leaders are chosen, start this @17:00
Thanks for the info, it's very interesting.
However they seem to be a democracy and they have leaders.
Leaders, managers, governors, are just differen't names for the same things.
Collectively, Leadership. management or governance.
So they have Government, though maybe somewhat different to, and much smaller than the USA, is (as portrayed in the video), fundamentally and ideologically very similar to that of the original USA.
there's a reason that their government is fundamentally and ideologically very similar to that of the original USA. The founders of the US used them a model for the new government they want to create. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/217630.Exiled_in_the_Land_of_the_Free
Leadership. management and governance are all used in the corporate model, without democracy, by either consensus or majority. Are you arguing that leadership. management and governance should be rejected? Or that for them to be legitimate that they must have consent? Or something else?
"There are nations that have been around for countless centuries that have rules but no rulers. They make decisions by voting, but rather than having a 51% majority, everyone needs to agree."
So what happens when you can't get everyone to agree? Getting everyone to agree on anything anywhere, any time is a tall order, if not impossible.
"The Nation is still governed by a Council of Chiefs, selected in accordance with its time-honored democratic system"
What's the difference between a "democratic system"
and a democracy?
"Are you arguing that leadership. management and governance should be rejected?"
No, quite the opposite.
"Or that for them to be legitimate that they must have consent? "
Yes I would argue that consent is needed for legitimacy.
Essentially I'm arguing against the theme of this main post (That we should not vote in US elections), and that will somehow improve our system or situation.
As I said in earlier replies, unless you can convince millions to do the same, then your 'not voting' is unlikely to make any difference.
You then informed me that "There are nations that have been around for countless centuries that have rules but no rulers."
It then turned out that they do have rulers. They call them Chiefs who are selected in accordance with its time-honored democratic system.
What's the difference between being selected and elected?
We complain about our leaders being selected rather than elected.
So all I'm saying is that unless and until we can somehow get rid of the corruption in the Government(not sure how we can do that) we're better off voting for the lesser of two evils rather than not voting, since that way we're more likely to get the worst of two evils.
"So what happens when you can't get everyone to agree? Getting everyone to agree on anything anywhere, any time is a tall order, if not impossible."
It's funny that you would say that something is impossible when people are doing it
"You then informed me that "There are nations that have been around for countless centuries that have rules but no rulers."
It then turned out that they do have rulers. They call them Chiefs who are selected in accordance with its time-honored democratic system.
What's the difference between being selected and elected?
We complain about our leaders being selected rather than elected."
You watched Oren Lyons tell you how chiefs are selected by consensus.
"So all I'm saying is that unless and until we can somehow get rid of the corruption in the Government(not sure how we can do that) we're better off voting for the lesser of two evils rather than not voting, since that way we're more likely to get the worst of two evils."
I can think of 100's of things that would get rid of corruption and voting for someone who is in favor of corruption isn't one of them.
"I can think of 100's of things that would get rid of corruption and voting for someone who is in favor of corruption isn't one of them"
So can I. But not any that we can actually get away with. Since they all involve organizing in some way or other that is designed to get rid of corruption.
The rulers will make damn sure we can't organize anything of that nature and will do ANYTHING including killing us to make sure we can't do it.