Sit down. Either read this in one take or sip slowly, one section at a time over a few days. I want to textually punch you in the gut about the reality of the blockchain I am investing in.
HIVE hit 5 cents.
That sentence should hurt.
Coins go up and down. Markets bleed. Crypto is brutal but still price changes are just noise. But an all-time low has a very specific meaning: every person who ever bought HIVE and held that bet is now at a loss.
Everyone.
Every old buyer, every believer, every person who trusted the vision and did not sell higher is underwater. That is what an all-time low means. It is not an opinion. It is the market laughing at every bagholder who believed.
And I am one of them as I keep buying and powering up slowly.
I am not writing this while dumping. I am writing this while doing the financially stupid thing that believers do: buying more of the thing that keeps disappointing them.
So nobody can honestly say this is FUD from a hater.
This is worse. This is a frustrated lover of Hive saying the current model does not work. I love Hive, I have loved it as an author, as a witness, as a dev on some frontends, as an attendee to events... I love Hive and I hope my not only my words but my history on this blockchain proves it.
CoinGecko shows HIVE around 5 cents, down from an all-time high around $3.41. Depending on the tracker and the minute you check, we are around a 27 to 30 million dollar market cap chain now.
That is a tiny hobby-level market cap.
So we need to start thinking like a tiny chain trying to survive, not like a giant protocol cosplaying as a nation.
And the core question is do we want to stay niche or grow? This will be the core inflection decision point of the whole post.
The DHF is not free money
The Hive developer docs say the DHF receives 10% of the annual new supply.
That means every DHF proposal is effectively asking the community:
“Can I create inflation and sell it? Can I dillute your HIVE Power?”
Or more brutally:
“Can I dump this dream into whatever exit liquidity still exists? Can I dump it whuile you buy it from me?”
That is what it comes down to unless the money is coming from real outside income, real customers, real investors, real business revenue, or real VC money that does not dilute HIVE buyers and does not abuse the exit liqudity that surprisingly still exists but dwindles.
The DHF is not revenue. It is not profit. It is not customers paying us. It is Hive printing claims on itself and hoping there is still someone on the market willing to buy them.
The Ecency proposal itself says there is around 23.2M HBD available in the DHF and around 232k HBD possible daily funding. That sounds rich until you ask the ugly question:
Could that HBD actually be sold for 23 million real dollars?
Of course not. The “23M HBD” is a label. Its real value is whatever the market can absorb when funded teams sell HBD to pay rent, salaries, servers and fiat expenses.
At 5 cent HIVE, pretending the DHF is a giant war chest is dangerous. It is a big number inside a small, bleeding economy.
We are one protocol improvement away from bankruptcy
I respect the people keeping Hive alive. A blockchain that stops producing blocks is dead. Witnesses matter. Core development matters. APIs matter. HAF, Hivemind, Denser, node work, security and maintenance matter.
But we already proved Hive can handle far more activity than today.
During the Splinterlands peak, Hive handled millions of daily operations. We had real usage. We had hype. We had a much bigger market cap. Today we are around 50 times smaller than the 2021 peak.
So when the focus stays mostly on protocol improvements, I get angry. Do we still need to keep scaling? Do we want better performance for fewer users?
We are not one more hardfork away from demand.
We are not one more internal API rewrite away from users.
We are not one more elegant technical upgrade away from businesses caring.
We are one protocol improvement away from bankruptcy if the protocol work does not bring users, businesses, income, liquidity or real demand for HIVE and HBD.
The Hive roadmap still talks about mobile nodes, HAF enhancements, API modernization, Denser, lightweight accounts, smart contract prototypes and more. Some of that may be useful. Some of that may be necessary. I personally really want to run a node on my mobile phone.
But does this help Hive stop bleeding?
If the answer is vague then the work may be nice, however nice is too expensive right now.
Most DHF work should be hobby money now
This is the part I personally hate. This is the part teams may refuse to acknowledge because they don't want to or they effectively can not scale down to.
Hive is now at a hobby level of financing. That does not mean Hive is worthless. It means our economic reality is small.
With a few exceptions, if a project cannot be kept alive by a hobbyist in a garage, it probably does not deserve thousands of dollars from the DHF. For many things, a few hundred dollars should already be treated as meaningful support. We don't have a million users.
Recurring six-figure funding on a sub-30M market cap chain is insane.
Unless the project is essential infrastructure or clearly creates more value than it extracts.
And even essential infrastructure should be much smaller than it is today simply because we either scale down preemptively or we scale down because we've ran out of money. Either way we will scale down, that is the nature of current market conditions.
Every serious proposal should answer a few painful questions:
- If this gets funded, who is likely to sell the HBD?
- How much market pressure does that create?
- What outside income will replace DHF funding?
- What gets cut if HIVE goes another 50% down?
- Does Hive die without this, or do some people just lose a paid position?
- Is this a business or a community hobby?
That last question matters.
If it is a small community hobby, fine. Keep it cheap. Run it lean. Ask for hobby money.
If it is a serious business asking for 100k+ USD per year, then act like a business. Have revenue. Have customers. Have paid features. Have ads. Have a path to independence.
Do not ask holders to fund a business while refusing to make business decisions. You are asking us to fund your egoistic and ideological delusions. You are not above the morals you think you have. Make money.
Frontends need to drop the ego and the ideology
A frontend with no business model is not a business.
It is constant dump pressure.
It is dilution of our value through inflation.
I like our frontends. I use them. I voted for some of them. I supported proposals I still believe are too big, because I use the products and I see their value.
Keychain’s 2026 proposal asks for 540 HBD per day. They talk about reducing DHF dependency, swaps, EVM, partnerships, revenue and making this their last DHF proposal. Good. I support that direction and approved it, with my vote they are closer to reaching their requested funding. But 540 HBD per day is still a lot of money for a chain at this level. If that funding gets sold into the market, it hurts. I am afraid it hurts us more than the value it creates
Ecency’s proposal asks for 396 HBD per day. They list dev costs, servers, onboarding and infrastructure. I use Ecency. I support Ecency. I voted for it and it too is closer to funding because of my vote and my support. I also think that ask is huge and unreasonable for the sad economic reality we are in. I am also afraid it may hurt us more thant he value it creates.
This is the contradiction. I approve things because I use them and I want to believe they have value, while knowing that the funding itself may be shooting myself in the foot.
That is the cult follower part of me. That is the cult side of all of Hive, we behave sometimes almost like a religion.
The rational part says: if a frontend believes it is worth six figures (6 figures!!!) a year, it needs revenue. Ads. Premium accounts. Paid tools. Promoted posts. AI credits. Business accounts. Analytics. Subscriptions. Anything.
If the ideology is “no ads, no paid features, no business model,” then pay the team and infrastructure out of your own pocket. That ideology is expensive. Do not charge all holders for it.
Onboarding is still embarrassing
At Hive Open Days in Alicante, we spent almost 10 minutes helping one person create an account.
She already knew crypto. She was surrounded by experienced Hive users. Even then, the process was confusing. Frontends, Keychain, account creation, keys, flows, options, explanations. It was a mess. She almost gave up.
That is my empirical proof that all our “onboarding improvements” still failed at the most basic test.
Can a normal interested person create an account quickly, on their mobile phone, while standing next to people who know Hive?
In that case, barely. That person was very interested in Hive, 9 out of 10 people would have given up then and there.
And that was a friendly environment.
Now imagine a random user alone at home.
I will commit a blockchain sin, I will say a crypto heresy:
Want to make onboarding easy? Allow the user to create an account just with an e-mail and a password. Hold and manage their keys for them. Yes, it is unsafe, yes no one wants to do it because of the risks, but that is the functional difference between life and death of future onbaording attemps.
Also, frontends, stop worshiping raw activity numbers. A lot of on-chain activity is automation. Curation trails, copy voting, bots, scripts, farming, spam, “positive” automation and malicious automation. Do you think you are better than professional abusers? Think you can tell real organic from bot data? I am sure most of the "current traffic" after "discounting bots and spam" is still bots and spam, just fancier and uncaught.
Hivewatchers recently found abuse around free account creation. It is easy to onboard bots. It is still hard to onboard real humans.
So when proposals talk about users, accounts, views and activity, the numbers need to separate real people from automation as much as possible.
Otherwise we are funding dashboards that make us feel alive while the market keeps saying we are dying.
We don't want the dead internet theory to be synonymous with Hive. Make onboarding easier for humans and harder for bots. Do we need a phone 2FA to prevent bots? Probably. Would that hurt user anonimity? 100% would. How many users care about that? I do not know. Again we are at the crossroads between ideology and common sense.
HBD is not magic either
Hive’s own HBD page says HBD savings is currently 15% APR, voted by witnesses. It also says the haircut rule activates when the HBD debt ratio is greater than or equal to 30%, stops printing HBD and breaks the $1 peg.
The haircut rule may be good design. It may be much safer than Terra. I am not saying HBD is UST.
But people need to stop acting like the economy cannot break.
A controlled depeg is still a depeg. A safety mechanism still means someone gets hurt. If HIVE keeps falling, the system gets more fragile.
At the moment, public trackers have shown HBD trading far below $1 depending on liquidity and venue. Maybe arbitrage fixes it. Maybe it is temporary. Maybe it is thin markets.
But from outside, the story looks awful: HIVE at all-time lows, HBD under pressure, DHF still funding teams, and everyone explaining why this is fine.
It does not look fine.
The decision
If Hive wants to be a niche community, that is okay.
Really.
We can be a small club of friends. We can post, vote, meet, run witnesses, keep the chain alive, and pay for most things ourselves. There is dignity in that.
But then stop pretending we are building for a billion-dollar market cap and a million users.
A niche community cannot afford endless six-figure DHF funding. Witness rewards will shrink. Only witnesses with real income outside Hive will keep running things. Frontends will need to become cheap community projects. Most things will need to be run by hobbyists because they love Hive.
That is one path.
The other path is to admit we want growth and act accordingly.
That means businesses. Ads. Paid features. Better onboarding. Real products. External income. Revenue. Hard cuts. Smaller proposals. Clear metrics. Less ideology. Less marble tower. Less pretending that we are above economics.
Some important people on Hive talk from the top of a withering marble tower like our economy is immune to collapse. Like we are better than every failed crypto experiment because our intentions are cleaner.
We are not immune.
The chart says so.
The price says so.
The all-time low says so.
Every person who bought and held HIVE is now the punchline of a sad joke unless we change the ending.
I am still buying. I am still powering up. I am still here.
But I do not want to keep buying into a dream that refuses to wake up.
Hive at 5 cents should be treated as an emergency meeting.
Witnesses, whales, DHF-funded teams and frontends should put one question on the table:
Do we want to be a small hobby community, or do we want to be a serious economy?
Both answers are valid.
The current answer is the only one that makes no sense: hobby-level market cap, six-figure expectations, no business model, inflation-funded comfort, and another protocol improvement on the way down.
That cannot continue.
As far as I know most proposals have been defunded.
However, funding same old front-ends still baffles me.
Just to prove that point, I built the whole front-end again - for free of cost - except claude code.
Of course, I also love hive & I keep buying hive whenever I get chance, I keep building but yes it's just sad to see this happening to Hive.
New People on hive are publicly-shamed for circle voting. All they are trying to do is support each other because they never get supported for posting the content apart from introduction post. That's not the real damage - but whales & witnesses keep pointing this as bad.
But what most witnesses do is - circle witness vote each other. They circle-DHF vote each other. And things like builingwhales self-voting, even more taking & keeping it to themselves. is this bad or not?
I approved some proposals because I use the products, I onboarded people and I think they are useful, but funding ANYTHING right now baffles me. I am considering removing my support and approvin the return proposal to do my little part to help defund even more projects. Note, it is not because I approved their proposals that I support them blindly, Ecency for instance is asking too much for current market conditions and I strongly dislike that.
The big problem is that big frontends are guilty of their own influence and power. They have the contacts and the support to get funded by a few big enough whales even if people think they are asking too much.
I get your point, what the big frontends are doing could be done with much less than the 6 figures they ask. If they want 100k+ they must figure out their own revenue strategies.
Totally agree with you that that is a much bigger problem that small fish circle voting each other. Recent proposals have had huge backlashes, like the girl asking to be reimbursed for expenses of past years, and they still finance that kind of stuff. They do not care what people think.
That is the fallacy of DPoS we believed. We thought that whales would have an incentive to look for the best interest of everyone, because if people lose trust their own stake is devalued. What happens in practice on Hive is that the big whales seem to not care about the worries and needs of the small people, at least not enough, as long as they can keep funding themselves.
It actually reminds me, didn't we fork off of Steem because we were afraid Justin Sun would do exactly that?
That criticism is fair, and this discussion is exactly why we reduced the proposal direction.
The short version: Ecency will keep prioritizing critical infrastructure and open-source maintenance, but with a smaller ask we also have to scale down commitments, reduce costs further, and keep pushing toward revenue outside DHF.
reduce cost is the best way to go broke. Increase Revenue or say make some is the way to go. Otherwise it will be forever unsustainable.
Lets say Hive hits 1 cent? We are in crypto pretty doable, each HBD is like a cancer cell at this point.
Please do.
Please do.
This is what I feared when I actively & aggressively started contributing to Hive.
100% front ends are a big waste. Non of them is sustainable. The Teams behind them have 0 online marketing experience. They depend 100% on DAO money. 0 Revenue, 0 Revenue plans.
I wonder what happens if DAO stops paying them? Do they end the front ends?
Funny is how shit become permanent here. Like in politics.
To avoid centralization, we created blockchain based social media platform.
We ended up becoming one.
content should never be part of it since you build ppl hate each other based on votes
What to do now? Too late?
Peoples money gone?
People warned me - most cryptos are ponzi.
I stayed strong about hive.
But what to say now in defence?
Too late.
Hive/HBD death spiral
HBD will lose its peg soon
Horrible.
I'm frustrated & disappointed beyond imagination.
Surviving with hopes & contributions.
Even with nothing, staying strong.\
btw you are a 3spk dev right? you know anything about the token balance from dlux? I am sure by now they are all gone and no backups. But maybe you have more Infos around it.
I also lost approx 500$ or more in that. I didn't do anything in DLUX. I invested my efforts time & energy in building 3Speak mobile app. That too I had to take it down from appstore & playstore because meno did a lot of changes recently on 3speak resulting into mobile-app non-functional app. I asked him to just raise a PR with set of changes, source code is open any way. But he is busy guy & may be not interested in 3speak mobile-app. Hard to see things dying in front of your eyes. but it is what it is.
It’s very bad.
So sad
Hive had so much potential.
All Destroyed by Markymark / Syncad
https://www.syncad.com/Services_Site/aboutus.html
At this level some emergency plan should have kicked in: IMMEDIATE STOP of any DHF funding and reduction of the HBD interest from 12% to 5% and reduction of the HP inflation from 4% to maybe 2%. Just until price recovers to >6c.
Were the top witnesses like @blocktrades and co. never foreseeing such a scenario? How unprofessional one can be? Every shit company has mitigation plans for SHTF-scenarios.
I would (apart from not supporting proposals) also NOT VOTE for any witness who is still POWERING DOWN and draining Hive like there is no tomorrow.
When things were going well it was easy to dismiss criticism as FUD, when things were going down it was easy to deny. When it is not falling anymore, because it became worthless, is when it will really hurt holders. The teams though will move on and find other projects to live off of.
And HBD recovers its peg.
Reality is soon catching up. They (all teams and individuals living off of inflation) need an emergency plan and at least to immediately publicly acknowledge it is a dire situation before they share their emergency plan.
I have lost count how many all time lows we have seen this year, I started buying again precisely to support Hive as it is reaching lower all time lows on a monthly basis. HBD is depegged by a huge margin. What are we doing? Asking for another 6 figures and making the blockchain even faster and more scalable?
Plus I'd consider not voting for witnesses that are supporting outrageous projects as if the DHF is real money. We do not have liqudity to finance so many 100k+ a year projects simultenously.
well there are 150k+ payments a month on HBD payments a month as yield. Thats 3M hive inflation a month on top of other waste.
Would not wonder Hive dies ( and Witness votes are worth 0 since 1 dude decide with 35M hive stake who is top 20 or not).
well HBD based on vibes by witnesses and not special vote is retarded.
No rules just vibe rates. 10y bonds + 3%, that could be the rule. You know what witnesses say " that is good idea and can be coded" What the hell they want to code?
There is no bdasic understanding. Same with Curration guilds, the most content rewarded ( the one with 0 comments or max 2) and soem third world topic is 100% net sell and generate on avg now 10$. IDk that shit is worth 100 hive +.
Social Rewarding with 0 return. Front ends explore now SEO, can you imagine this?
You pay for content onchain but you dont market it for a decade?
I know all this. I try to not think about it - better for my health :)
Because at the end of the day, health is more important than money.
In Spain we have a saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
I am also one of the users who have bought more Hive than they have obtained as rewards. But I don't care about the monetary value reflected in my account because what matters to me about Hive are the people who make it up. And there, as in real life outside our bubble, there is everything. Good and bad.
Before I also thought that "the big stakeholders" would take care of Hive because they had to lose much more than small investors like me, but it is obvious that this is not the case.
I will continue in Hive as long as there are people to continue to connect with and to continue meeting, as I was lucky enough to do with you in Alicante.
Thank you for this post.
We have the same saying in Brazil!
I don't know which is worse, that Hive is on "the road to hell" despite our best intentions....
Or we are in a road to hell because of some bad intentions, in disguise.
Both are possible and both are different issues.
I like to be positive. It is built more on hope than on discouragement. And we can’t fix the issues if we don’t know what are them really, yes.
Support engagement with a delegation to topcomment:
50HP - 100HP - 250HP - 500HP - 750HP - 1000HP - 1500HP
I'm on the blockchain every day... but I just don't see how the future of Hive survives. I can't say what problem that actually matters to a lot of people is being fixed by this blockchain, so unfortunately I don't think it's much more than a hobby.
I am absolutely fine with Hive being a hobby, I will stay here even if I have to restart my witness node (I am sure there will be a witness exodus if HIVE/HBD becomes worthless) and keep interacting and participating in events.
But that is to be the road we gown down to we need to pretend we can finance projects that want to have six figures like a business but don't want to be self sufficient like a business NOW. That goes for witnesses and funded projects.
Edit: As for the problem, none, I can't also think of one. The fact that our feeds are boring was never solved and that is something that the devs could tackle that brings more value than yet another scalability improvements. The chronological timeline type of feed is not attractive to most users. Some may value but because it is so hard for frontends to customize the feeds (snaps and eaves tried to do it with comments) makes we lose appeal as a social network
I have always thought that we have great potential in niche communities. I had high expectations for community breaks, but it truly disappointed me. Now with AI, we have the opportunity to create social networks for each community. Selling niche applications to administrators of large communities can be highly attractive. This is a new level of digital ownership and business model. Furthermore, with how cheap it is to store data on Hive, it is also one of our greatest advantages.
I made a niche app, and we are testing it before launching it. I am teaching my high school students to build them within the niches they are passionate about. I hope to scale this over the coming months.
I have always said that communities should be viewed as a business, complete with their own onboarding strategy and business model, but in my 9 years here, I have seen very few people with that vision. They only see income coming from the DHF or the reward pool.
Definitely agree about Hive’s niche community potential, but the model has to be an actual business model.
We in SkateHive have been building what’s essentially a shared magazine by skaters, for skaters, and I’m trying to convince them to start selling advertising. Of course the key we believe would be to have our own second layer token, which can keep the revenue shared within our own community. Skateboard ads won’t be enough to move the Hive price much, but it should be enough to keep a magazine running. So either everyone does that, and that slowly trickles back into Hive, or we create the model on Hive, and encourage communities to replicate it as well.
Man, community finding sponsors. This is the kind of business we are missing out because people are too dogmatic, or worse, community leaders are scared of actually doing business, it is too comfortable relying on chain rewards instead.
edit: Imagine "community sponsored by X or Y sports team or energy drink" or whatever? It is not only money but also REPUTATION! "these guys are good enough to have a sponsor"
We sponsored a fucking rally car and don't have the guts to get out there and find sponsors for ourselves?
Exactly! How many POD casts pause for a sponsored ad read, and I haven't seen it once on Hive. Like I get that we're trying to be a less like the corporate world, but that doesn't mean we should turn our nose up at all opportunity. It's not like there isn't a positive, and moral way to do business.
The key is where we hold our values, and thanks to Hive we have a way to express that in a measured way. The next step is beginning to bridge that sense of value, with the world of monetary value, and not loosing ourselves in the process.
I'm glad to read this. I love the magazine idea; not so much the second-layer token one. I think you should explore the possibility of building your own DApp (with AI it's easy), that way you'll have more freedom to create features that attract your specific niche, and some of those features could even be premium with a subscription. When people are invited to a community that shares their exact interests, they are more open to it and stay longer. We discovered this with Hive Run.
Unfortunately, I agree with everything you said... Personally, for the last few years, I remember asking multiple times the same question over and over again, all projects that would ask for DHF funding in their "presentation" events... In Discord, on chain, or anywhere else... the question was: "When will your project be self-sustainable?"...
I did get an answer many times, which was always the same "We are working on it...", but on the other side, I never saw anyone laying out the HOW TO be self-sustainable in any of their proposals...
Sorry, but the answer "SOON" isn't convincing anymore... We heard it too many times...
That's just hypocrisy... I want to be a vegan, but you will eat vegetables for me... 😃
To finish on a positive note... HIVE isn't broken... Chain works... Token economy is broken, incentives are broken... As you said...
Thanks for the post! Appreciate you sharing your opinion! 🙏
I bet they even looked down at you like "look at this person, going against our sacred morals, little does he know we will always have liqudity and funding"
I am gonna also share a positive note, although it may not sound like it for people that are here for profit.
It is still a social network. If it all goes down I will still look forward to meeting you at our next event, when we are worth 0.0001 cents but still have our communities and can still meet and chat.
The thesis behind Hive was that the communities have financial value, I think time has proven that is not enough so yeah, financially we are walking towards ruin. I just hope that the communities survive and we keep the events to meet and a few forums to chat with each other.
If we do go bankrupt at least we will get rid of some leeches and recover our community power. Now that I think about it going to zero may be the best thing for Hive, way too many people are living off of something that is a horrible investment, not the end of the world of those few people abandon the ship because there is no more money to be made for them.
What you said at the end of the comment is something that I would actually like to see... It's not a secret that we have some bad apples among our whales, and it would be nice to see them capitulating and leaving... We need to shuffle the cards to have a "fair chance" to succeed... Plus, some of our whales didn't buy their tokens... they mined them and never lost their % in the Hive cake... 😉
Maybe that's the reason why many of them didn't capitulate... You got tokens for free... even 1 cent is a profit ;)
It cannot continue... but unfortunately what it feels like is that the ones with power to stop it don't really seem that interested in doing so. We keep seeing huge DHF payouts, we even opened the doors to rectroactive payments... no one in their right mind would invest in Hive nowadays. Like you, I spend a lot of time here, still enjoy playing games daily, but it's painful to see what we are becoming. And yes, we can be just a little community, but for how long? Right now, I would say: burn the DHF in its entirety, or almost all of it.
Thanks for another wake up call, they're in dire need. Cheers!
Are making enough money to pretend it is not a problem and pretend they are morally superior.
That exact proposal made me lose a bit of faith in Hive, look at how many top 20 witnesses supported that despite widespread community criticism
https://peakd.com/me/proposals/368
Some people are becoming what we thought Justin Sun would be for Steem.
We don't need to burn the DHF, it is useful for financing in terms of high liquidity and strong bull markets. The thing is, we may not live to see another bull market.
We don't need to, but I would be very curious to see what would happen if handing out massive amounts of HBD on a daily basis was no longer a possible option. ;)
Widespread community criticism is valid but it is also overpowered due to the timing of things, there were plenty of supporting comments as well to that proposal. I don't agree with you saying "they're making enough money to pretend it's not a problem and that they're morally superior".
That particular user has done a lot of valuable things for hive and continues to do so, just because they've kept pushing off doing a proposal when "time's were good" doesn't make their contributions any less valid.
I'm sure they could've had an easier time when splinterlands got $250k just to "survive" while they still have millions in bsc/eth pools to pay their employees today. Just as a perspective, I supported both.
Your Justin Sun comments are coming off quite offensive and out of touch.
The timing is exactly the point though. At 5 cent HIVE, with HBD under pressure, the same proposals that would be fine in a "healthy" market becomes existential now.
"Healthy" on quotes because our economy was never healthy, that is why we have reached this point. I mean healthy because we had liquidity to try and fail.
Which proposal and which user do you mean? I criticized several things without naming but all around the same principle. Are you talking about the retroactive compensation, Magi, Ecency, Keychain, HiveFest/ChainCulture, etc. Which proposal?
I am not saying people contributed nothing. Quite the opposite. A lot of people did valuable work but all of that was still cashflow negative. It is not an accusation against one individual but a flaw in how we have funded everything as a whole until this point.
When people are paid from Hive while holders keep absorbing the collapse, and then the answer is still mostly “trust us, this is good for Hive”, it starts to sound detached from the BAD INVESTMENT it is buying and holding. An all time low means objectively that everyone who has bought lost. And we have had almost weekly all time lows this year.
If I offended someone personally, I honestly apologize for that. If someone says “this specific line offended me because of this specific reason”, I will take it seriously. I want criticism, free speech and even some confrontation. That is healthy. But if we enter “offense” territory, then it should be specific, because I cannot sincerely apologize to a vague shadow.
I still stand by the Justin Sun comparison as a warning. Years later, Hive and Steem are worth almost the same. That should terrify us.
Either Justin Sun did not damage Steem, or we have damaged Hive more than we want to admit.
I am afraid of the answer either way.
In the end, both are worth almost the same as Justin Sun's Steem, so what gives?
Maybe check which comment I replied to? You only mentioned one proposal there.
Saying people are voting and supporting proposals, or not stopping in doing so are doing it because they are
is not offensive?
Hive and Steem being worth the same is a red herring, similar like most forks still having value while there's nothing going on there. Outside investors don't care to find out how much more progress we're making here and the potential because our marketcap is so low and we never get any attention outside of this space. The little attention we do get is from X which the recipient of your mentioned proposal has been very active in among many other things they do in terms of listings/partnerships, etc. I'd take retrospective proposals before "trust us we'll do this but need the money up front - don't worry we'll update you constantly, then disappear until a week before it's time to make a new proposal".
Justin Sun is a huge conman who buys his way out of prison because the world is corrupt, even bringing that up here sounds like you're just looking for arguments rather than healthy discussions. Just because the price of Hive is low doesn't mean it is damaged.
My comment was about proposals in general and I cited her then went back to talk about other proposals, sorry for the bad formatting and misunderstanding.
I am not saying she contributed nothing. I am saying contribution and affordability are not the same thing.
On the “morally superior” line: My point is that people earning from Hive experience this crisis differently from people buying HIVE with outside income while every holder goes underwater.
I agree retrospective proposals are better than “pay us first and trust us later”. But retrospective funding still needs to prove outcome, not effort, did they create measurable demand or reduce future DHF dependence?
I am saying that if Hive has apps, events, builders, community and activity, but still ends up near Steem’s market cap, then the market is telling us our progress is not translating into demand.
It is precisely because we have so many people working so much that it is sad. They (Steem) do nothing, we (Hive) do a lot, we both lose similarly, like this:
I don't know if you noticed how much the DHF is changing. It is shrinking significantly. Valueplan has only made one proposal this year, and it wasn't fully approved. It was only 80K, whereas by this time last year, they were already close to 500K.
There are 3 large (new) continuation proposals that have gone a month without being approved, and another proposal that has been running for a year and has another one to go, which is currently unfunded. Furthermore, there are very few days left before other major proposals come to an end, and it seems they won't be funded again either.
And why do you think that is? Do we see any fundamental shift on why DHF is used? If Hive price wasn't in the gutter now, together with the growing contestation of more users, I don't think we would see any difference on the status quo. And that's what needs to change.
I think it's a good thing, because it seems that whales are listening to the small fish, thanks to the noise they make. That gives us more power and helps with decentralization.
Hope time proves you right; I'm a little more sceptical :)
That's one aspect that I meant when I posted that Hive needs to "de-Ponzify"(term I coined to describe a business model that require constant recruitment of new members and resources being poured in without returns just to keep in relative stability).
For that reason Hive must be used for real services instead of just circulating internally. The protocol already has several implementations that could allow Hive to actually operate like, for example, a real bank.
Another example of real world application:
In struggling economies(like Venezuela and some African countries) HBD is being used as actual stable currency the same way PIX is used in Brazil.
I do not think that more DeFi is exactly what we need right now but I get your point
I do believe we should use the bearing market to accumulate more Hive Power in order to get more voting power so we can influence who is and is not in the security council, which is how I call the top 20 witnesses.
I don't have grudge with most witnesses there but it would be nice to have a shake up in our council of overlords.
This was a hell of a read.. some real home truths being told, all the dirty laundry on display, big time!!
I'm a relative newbie in the HIVE ecosystem, only really landed at the tail end of 2025 and have been using my Account as a new user experiment of sorts, focused on Blogging, Actifit, Splinterlands.. purposefully kept queries to a minimum, really wanted to see how easy the ecosystem was to navigate on my own two feet.
Its been a wild ride, coming from a Software Developer background I can really see and mostly understand what the ecosystem is trying to achieve, there are lots of things I like about HIVE but fully agree with some of your assessment.
All that being said I wish to end with positivity, I've run into many lovely people in this ecosystem, friendly, helpful, Actifit has actually had a positive impact on my health, and Splinterlands is great fun to play. I'm hoping to create a new Community on here soon and then push to start onboarding friends and wider circle now that I understand the onboarding mechanism requirements :)
The first bullet point is key. A tiny minority of users care about their private keys, matter of fact worse than that, most people store their keys unsecurely, they are better off having a trusted admin handling their keys securely for them. There is no argument, beyond the moral high ground some teams think they have, to not have a centralized key manager (boo, the ghost of centralization 👻)
Yet another user guide reminds me of this XKCD about standards:
https://xkcd.com/927/
Maybe we don't just need a new guide but we also need to NUKE and remove old ones so they don't confuse new people.
The search engine is probably difficult because Hive has awful search operations, it is the reason we can't have an algorithmic feed. The architectural decisions are showing its age.
I've seen AI do incredible things
In general I support AI aided development but we need to thread carefully not to shoot ourselves in the foot with code and feature quality. AI doesn't scale that well over long periods of time, it can start and produce stuff 800% faster but eventually, because of technical debt and feature creep, it drops to 20% and some researches even show it can SLOW DOWN DEVELOPMENT (if used properly caring for quality)
Well said :)
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urielkinnear, you mined 0.9 🟧 HBIT and the user you replied to (igormuba) received 0.1 HBIT on your behalf as a tip. When you mine HBIT, you're also playing the Wusang: Isle of Blaq game. 🏴☠️
Sorry, but you didn't find a bonus treasure token today. Try again tomorrow...they're out there! Your random number was 0.4928800177581941, also viewable in the Discord server, #hbit-wusang-log channel. | tools | wallet | discord | community | daily <>< Check for bonus treasure tokens by entering your username at a block explorer A, explorer B, or take a look at your wallet.There is a treasure chest of bitcoin sats hidden in Wusang: Isle of Blaq. Happy treasure hunting! 😃 Read about Hivebits (HBIT) or read the story of Wusang: Isle of Blaq.
IF we want to see broader adoption the power has to spread out.
Nobody buys in when the price to power ratio is out of whack.
What that price is, I don't know, but we have to be getting close to it.
What do you mean by power spreading out? Do you mean HP and the centralization we have on some large holders?
What would the "price to power ratio" mean? Trying to understand your point
This is exactly the conversation we need. I was trying to suggest something similar within the SkateHive community, with ads for skate companies and brands.
If you compare the business model of social media with Hive, they’re both free, but social media monetizes your attention through advertising and data collection, and we do none of that. That’s a lot of value we’re just leaving in the table cause some ppl don’t like ads.
Meanwhile Brave shows us a model where we can give people control over what they see, or if their data can be used. We could essentially be curating advertisements, as well as selling data with consent, and have the revenue be shared through a Hive buy back program.
Other ideas I’ve had include crazy things like focusing on the emerging demand for open source scientific research journals, archives of journalistic materials, training open source ai models, and decentralized versions of any other thing out there that have been too centralized.
Hey, I barely know the SkateHive community but highly respect the community, I swear to you everyone on Hive knows you guys because of how active you guys are in a very good way! Keep rocking and rolling, even without not knowing much I heard enough about your porjects to respect a lot. At a Hive event we had in Spain many weeks you guys were mentioned a few times because the members are active and creative with creating websites and having brand new ideas.
Well, everything on Hive is public in a way that not even Facebook dares to. It is just that we do not monetize it, but it is very easy for anyone to just scrape data off of Hive and know about your interests and target ads to you outside of Hive. Hive does the dirty job of creating and collecting and preserving data, outsiders benefit from the data neatly stored about us.
Wow that’s cool to hear! Thank the kids in Brazil, and Africa for that! They’ve been taking to Hive like bees to honey!😉 Even had some of our members skating across Africa with Jaay Films.
While I just sponsored an historic longboard race in Canada, and currently working on the video from it.
But of course all this attention is wasted if we don’t find a way to monetize, and maintain it!
I will remove my votes on all DHF projects.
I am not investing more money into HIVE though.
It is time to have some major changes on this chain.
Maybe keep voting on the return proposal, this raises the bar. The problem remains though that we have no power, it would require a hardfork-level of coordination to defund 6 figure projects and to rotate the top 20 witnesses list.
I'll be here ten years in July and we've been saying for the better part of a decade that onboarding should be easier. I really do believe that one simple thing were easier then more people would try Hive—we'd have more liquidity, the market cap would grow, it would solve a lot of issues. Onboarding should be as simple as snapping a QR code, as few steps as possible. I've never seen engagement and sentiment this low as long as I've been here and I'm concerned. First principals thinking should be applied to revamp as much as we can in regards to the UI. This isn't a problem that can't be fixed.
You said a lot here, @igormuba, I'm going to respond as I think up points...
Let's start with market fundamentals for virtually anything: When demand is higher than supply, prices rise. When supply is greater than demand, prices fall. What is the compelling reason to buy and hold Hive? 15-second "elevator speech" version.
You've got 15 seconds. Go!
Let's just say we're pitching this to your average blogger/vlogger, or "refugee" who's sick and tired of the vacuousness of FB/Insta/TikTok and wants a venue with more "meat on its bones."
It doesn't matter how much people keep polishing the code, building scaling and various technical aspects of Hive. The analogy I have been using for years is that it doesn't matter that you've build the world's greatest sports car... if you're living in a remote village with no paved roads and nobody knows about you.
I'm approaching my 10th year here, but also approaching my 10th year of pointing out that we simply cannot afford to just be "Decentralized Crypto Blockchainiacs" as if that's the magic unicorn dust that makes a success. Nobody cares. "Decentralization" remains meaningless to 90-95% of the population. "Censorship resistant" might carry slightly more depth.
Thinking about, that situation from Alicante you describe... I have repeatedly suggested "Light" accounts as a way to reduce the barriers to entry here. Your basic "sign up with Google/Facebook" that gives you access to everything except financial features. You start with a 25HP "loan" (to minimize RC issues) which can be a delegation from a DHF sponsored account that goes away when the acount actually reaches 25HP. You can even watch your rewards build in your account... but you can't touch it until you get your actual keys, which requires you to commit to a full account. Light accounts come with the additional proviso that if a "light" account goes dormant for more than 6 or 12 or 24 months (whatever) whatever Hive is there is automatically burned. Not only would it facilitate entry; these signups could serve as somewhat of an inflation reducer.
As for the DHF... great idea, but I believe it should be contingent on several things, including "no business plan showing revenue, no funding" and an additional requirement that that some part of the funding (10%? 20%?) MUST be used for external marketing of the final product. In other words... time to emphasize projects that offer utility to people outside the walls of Hive.
Along with that, don't forget that you're basically asking for a "grant." Do you have ANY idea of how much detail and documentation goes into a conventional grant proposal? And how much reporting is required to account for where and how the funding is being used? Grants aren't just a magic cash dispenser!
Lastly, we also need to let go of (at least in part) this myopic thinking that somehow "Hive's built in user base" is all that's needed for a DHF funded project to become successful. Sorry... WRONG. Go pitch your show outside Hive and see if anyone cares. If they don't, maybe you shouldn't be asking for money.
And yes, I am well aware that maintaining basic infrastructure matters. Could be the DHF needs to be segmented into discrete allocations for different types of projects.
Final thought about the "Ponzi" question. Hive isn't really a Ponzi, in much the same way as some of the Network Marketing programs I was familiar with 30-40 years ago weren't Ponzis. The problem tended to be an overemphasis on selling the program rather than selling the products. We need to start pitching the tangible benefits of Hive, not just Hive the concept. People invest in stuff they can USE, not just cool ideas.
To deponzify our economy we need to stop thinking about what people would invest in and start to think what would people pay for
Good points! The DHF has wasted quite a lot of funds over the past years I think. And although the projects have lowered their demands, it still is a lot of money. Especially when you see the the small active user base Hive has.
I don't know if making onboarding is the solution either. I've been following a lot of newcomers lately. The vast majority are from countries where there is a large financial incentive to join Hive. Yes, they often are very active and it is is good to have more activity on Hive, but I also see a lot of rewards being withdrawn. Which is understandable when you live in poor conditions, but having more Hive being sold on the exchanges is also negatively influencing the price I think.
I think we should have more people powering up their Hive instead of extracting it.
Together with lowering the rewards for the DHF projects, it might help the price of hive to recover a bit....
And we need to find ways to onboard more people that don't extract their rewards.
Recently I've created a Hive Account Health Dashboard I'm using to see if people are extracting a lot. I'm using it when I'm curating to make sure the accounts that extract a lot don't get rewards from me. It's not much, but it's something I can do.
If someone cares about what the authors do with their rewards we can, at dire times, individually start supporting authors that buy and power up and not authors who power down or even go as far as not supporting authors that do power up but do not even buy. Buying at this moment shows their commitment and many authors, witnesses and projects are not committed, at least not enough to put their own made-out-of-hive money on the line
KE value is perfect for this. The highet above 1, the more rewards have been extracted. Below 1 is more staked Hive than rewards earned.
I don't mind if someone has a KE that is slightly above 1, but a lot more means no upvote.
That is genius! Make a ranking out of that! Or is there one already?
PS: does it take into account staking from outside of HIVE? I feel like beneficiaries of the DHF will have a lower coefficient because they get paid by the inflation, versus people who ACTUALLY BUY HIVE
Thanks! A ranking is difficult since people have their own ideas about these figures.
That's why I encourage everyone to use the tool and draw their own conclusions.
When you have added and powered extra Hive, you can have a KE lower than 1. I have used Hive to buy HBD and to play some games which increased the amount of Hive, which I then powered up again.
Apart from a starting amount I have never bought Hive with fiat.
But I do keep building on Hive.
Ok so the KE is not exactly useful, it is bound to track contribution to inflation but not to cash flow. I just saw lordbuttlerfly's score, he lives off of Hive so he earns HIVE and spend it, his score is similar to mine and I have been buying and powering up. Makes sense that it is not a useful metric by itself because it can be misleading about cash flow
That's why I created a dashboard with multiple stats.
You can also see the putgoin trasfers of the last 30 days.
It is something...
Spot on - we are a tiny niche and our problems should be clear - but as community we just can not move forward - for that we need a more corporate structure.
Love everything you said. It’s clear, honest and puts the decision to make on the table:
Do we want to stay niche or grow?
Funny, when I say this I'm the bad guy.
You know how a community that actually strategizes about what they fund would approach this?
If you are funding 3 things for 3000 thousand dollars and you want them to generate revenue, asset demand, whatever.... You cut 2 that dont and keep the one that does. Now youre not spending 3000 dollars, youre spending 1000.
So in this context spending 540 HBD is not a lot at all, if theres a new strategy set and you cut those that dont follow that strategy. You are actually spending only a part of the money you spent before and getting what you want out of it.
Problem is that many people think all proposals are made the same, judged on popularity. If they were the same, Keychain would not be changing its approach. They are not the same.
3 things:
If it means you dont sleep, then you dont sleep. If you cant look at the screen anymore and your AI isnt working through the night then you are missing out on work that could be done.
If thats what it takes then thats what it takes. And it will take that from many of us, for us to change our trajectory.
100% agree. Fix inflation, fix hive. That simple. Otherwise still great fintech project. One of the most interesting use case in my opinion.
Excellent article, whose ideas I wholeheartedly agree with.
IMO, HIVE should have committed to real growth long ago, focusing on business ventures, external revenue streams, advertising, and clear metrics.
It's very clear that everything they've done hasn't worked, and empty promises aren't enough.
We must transform HIVE into a growth-oriented blockchain.
Great post on your views on what is going wrong. totally agree with your sentiments. I have learnt a lot over the last year and no longer support or vote for any proposal,(apart from worldmappin, which are very transparent) the killer for me was some individual wanting support to buy a fucking computer.
I do see a lot of posts about this little app that little app, mostly about checking stats, personal and of others, but seriously, what benefit is that for the Hive? What value does it bring? What does it cost!
I think I know exactly what little app about checking stats you refer to LOL
The little projects are clearly AI made and add little to no value, but hey, if Hive users want to experiment, play, and create useless stuff WITHOUT the DHF funds go for it, let them have fun and engage (although some of them need a reality shock based on how they right), they are not asking for anything in return, at least not yet...
Well if its free then yes go ahead and play, If some folks enjoy stats and numbers and stuff then who am I to moan. One life live it I guess
Very well said. No nonsense post. The miat important issue needed to grow the Hive ecosystem, is onboarding.
I feel there ought to ve a two-tier process -
First, allow a fricrionless account to respond / xomment on posts found outside the ecosystem.
And then for deeper interaction such as posting or voting, the newcomer is invited to upgrade, and receive a few dollars of hive and RC to prime the account.
Everything going forward, requires new users, new energy, new money.
@tonybad
!ALIVE
At this low point only critical infrastructure should be funded by DHF. Bare bones. Everything marketing wise past 5 years has failed miserably anyway. Yet I see proposals funded to pay people for past work now? This place has gone to crap. Whales circle jerking and probably making something on backend. HBD % APR should he 3% by now but it’s 12%? Insanity how badly this chain has been road into the ground. One account warned me not to buy at .10 and said wait for .05 next 6 months (in January) and I thought .10 was floor so didn’t listen. He called it exactly spot on and now he’s calling for .03 in 2026. Im selling anywhere above .045 and will buy back if anything changes god better at .0326 or so.
Shoutout to @geneeverett market vlogs getting this right since summer 2024 where he said ignore artificial pump in 2025 and use it to sell above .50 of it happens because we’ll dump 90% in 2026.
How did you know man? Gene that’s the most on call take I ever heard. I wish you hadn’t stopped doing market vlogs weekly. I’d listen of you bring back.
I just looked. I’m glad it’s documented, but regardless I’m called a liar by most for claiming I sold above .50 in January 2025 , again it’s all on chain so can be checked. Truth is nobody likes hearing the truth. I got trashed for just predicting this! Even though I was clearly not rooting for it, I just said it’s obvious. But @thefed I purposely didn’t make any hardcore calls for levels below .04 or so because as cap that’s this small it’s much easier to manipulate. As I’ve seen some very short term mini pumps which last hours at most and require 10X volume increases for them. I’d guess sub penny is the future honestly. It just feels like nobody in charge wants to stop the fake take that everything is great and we are growing, when obviously we’ve bled users at insane rate. Even being below .05 now is wild that nobody believed me when I called or 18 months ago and sold friends to just sell a little above .40 cents. People still on hive daily are all in on the cope. Not selling during huge artificial pumps just a 20% or so piece was insane to watch. I sold in 2021 at $3.00 because it’s obviously a pump that wouldn’t be sustained. I sold all my HSBI not just 80% my HP in January 2025 because it was pumps taking 300X normal volume to move up. It was all artificial. I would buy back for 90% less here but I don’t think it’s worth it. I invested 50 hours here a month for 5 years so my selling during pumps wasn’t just dumb luck. I watched and I love the community! That said all I see is cope, DEV’s still pushing lies like HBD will be a widely used stable coin in commerce, and even will be the Bitcoin chains pick for stable coin. When I heard that on HiveFest 2025 stream I couldn’t believe it! Such BS & lied from well funded devs. They are either liars or fools. I dunno 🤷🏼♂️
So I’m officially part time here and post once a week. No more daily effort. I think it’s over but you could def trade hive on the open market here with these silly pump attempts! At this low cap I’d not be surprised to see .048 go .075 in an hour and immediately back down day later, so that’s a money making move you can do! Take advantage of the cope and nonsense believers.
I create some actual content... just photos, notes about gardening. I follow a few others that also are actually still creating that kind of content. Blogging basically. I use any earnings to fund Splinterlands. Not a tech guy or crypto investor. My opinion is this is a hobby, niche community. It might have had a moment, maybe an opportunity even but I think that has passed. Its still a fun niche. Some small groups doing the blogging, social media stuff plus some techies that like the blockchain/crypto angle.
The onboarding is not that only thing that sucks - Hive has become hostile. Do you want an example? We're bleeding tons of money while @marky downvotes the only real community on Hive @fundacja ran by @hallmann resulting in whole community looking for an alternative 🤯 Do you understand? Hundreds of Hive users are actively looking for different chain to keep their ledger.
I made a post months ago and it was laughed by nomenclature. I've unstaked my HBD, sold it and think about dropping Hive for good as the ruling class doesn't want users to join in.
https://hive.blog/tribes/@jocieprosza/is-there-anything-we-could-do
Low effort posts have always been downvoted.
Assign somebody to personalize the daily post and your troubles should go away.
The social part of hive was since day 1 shit and the other parts fails to deliver ( finance, smart contract).
The problem with social is, nobody wants a token you lock up for 3 months and another random dude can overwrite your vote. Lets say you want support people using your business with a upvote, doesnt work here. Retarded stake holders would bully you off.
Same with freedom of speech, you can post what you want and nobody can delete, but you get censored on all front ends if you do the wrong joke to the wrong person and he decide to nuke your reputation.
Its a shitcoin. And on top 25% inflation.
Great post! Your post has been curated from Ecency.
Un crudo análisis,
Como bien dices, cuando una blockchain toca un mínimo histórico, ya no estamos ante simple ruido de mercado, o volatilidad común; estamos ante una señal de alarma que afecta el bolsillo de absolutamente todos los que han creído y mantenido su apuesta aquí. Seguir operando bajo la mentalidad de cuando HIVE valía 3 dólares es una desconexión peligrosa con nuestra realidad económica actual. Algo desalentador, para los que entramos hace poco con una ilusión.
I think you hit the nail on "only those with real income OUTSIDE hive" can sustain.
Because of the current situation and a lot are literally having trouble obtaining income outside HIVE is the pivot that will bankrupt it.
I am trying to help by encouraging people to spend their HBD with my new ebook launch. However I can, of course i am not a millionaire myself.
If there are any entrepreneur could to do the same maybe there will be less bleeding outword
A decade ago, TeamMalaysia tried to do that. But with such a tiny community trying to do while others dunping at all time high but not buying at all time low, that happens
is awful see hive drop down a lot :(
Que calidad de contenido @igormuba! Me gustó mucho lo que compartiste. Vote y comento para dar visibilidad. Seguí así!
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Please vote for pizza.witness!
Onboarding really should be looked into. I see a lot of people that are interested in hive when I give hype about its ecosystem but from the onboarding system, it already turns them off and they don't finish up the process.
I also noticed that devs focus more on infrastructure and often forget that you should build stuff that makes life easier for users. Its the users that make and keep the ecosystem running.
Everything you have brought up is valid. It's been 10 years with various concerns never being addressed.
Despite all that what has been built is nothing short of amazing and if this full ecosystem would have hit like this in 2016 it would have been pretty unreal.
It's been an interesting case study for sure.
There has never been a major marketing push and as I have said many times the whole thing was going to have to sprint and have urgency and do things outside the box.
Most attempts were largely ignored and as the ecosystem got further away from the original funding and huge market capitalization without outside revenue being brought in.
Everything that has been built is amazing though. I'm impressed but the market has spoken.
Buying here is not smart. .03 handle is certain next few months if not much sooner.
This is the post that puts out the question I have been asking myself the last few weeks - "How"? I am the same - I vote for proposals because I use the things that the proposals support. On the other side, I look at the daily funding and ask - "How" with the HIVE so low?
Uh oh … Hive / HBD is getting close to Haircut.
.0413
Will HbD be depegged ?
Goes it drop to zero ?