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RE: Monastics - a bunch of outcasts, seekers and losers? What can a monastery be regarded as, what does it serve for?

in #buddhism6 years ago (edited)

You have anticipated many questions your post may provoke. The essence of this, of course, is trust. Each of us, based on experience has a different trust threshold. As a therapist, you likely understand the foundation for trust is laid early in childhood, likely infancy. While rationality can inform us about someone's integrity (trustworthiness) our 'gut' response may defy this assessment.

I'm glad you address the fact that people who assume the roles of piety are not necessarily pious. Though-- I personally have found at least one person who lived a life of religious vocation while at the same time eschewing conspicuous demonstrations of this dedication. I worked closely with a nun who wore secular clothes and engaged in secular work. She was hard-nosed, practical, analytic (trained as a mathematician)--but she was the most ethical person I ever knew. She ran the only charity my husband would hand money over to without hesitation because he knew every penny would go to the poor.

So, I do believe those who devote themselves to a spiritual life can be totally trustworthy, but, I'm sorry, they have to prove it to me first. The robes, the symbols, the lifestyle have no intrinsic value for me.

Postscript:
I've returned to this comment for an edit. My mother was as ethical as the nun, and even kinder. My mother was modest in aspect but scrupulous in examining conscience. Although she did not pursue a religious vocation, she wore the signs of piety on her knees. These were thickly calloused from years of private praying.

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Thank you for visiting me and commenting.

I think what you reply also reflects some of the thoughts of others. So I appreciate that you come up with them.

I am not a therapist but a systemic consultant for families and social issues.

I am happy about the example you gave with regard to working with the nun. I find such examples important to tell and to give an impression of the people to whom one could trust oneself. In return, people also think about such or similar encounters and acquaintances - the whole mental activity then changes direction and one remembers or searches for such real people and examples of their lifestyle and stories that can be told. When you mentioned the nun, I spontaneously thought of my history teacher back then. She was a similarly integer person who opened history to me. I will never forget her.

The visible signs can certainly have no inner value for those who do not wear them. Rather, they are external features that facilitate recognition. I like this clear recognizability and thus distinguishability as well as the accompanying symbolism.

Though, Christianity still is much closer to me and an image of a Jesus figure touches me much deeper than that of a Buddha figure.

That someone can be devout even though he is dressed in piety is without question possible.
It was important to me to make it clear that a place like a Buddhist order offers fewer possibilities to develop a worldly self-interest. A bit like being taken to a mountain hut that has no running water and electricity. Where there is no luxury or few amenities. By nature, a person in such an environment is less tempted to define himself by status symbols. I believe it changes people when they enter a monastery. There they are not alone. The social control and the monastery regulations also ensure that hypocrisy and dishonourable intentions come to light. As far as I know, the inhabitants of a monastery reflect and "supervise" each other in a much more sophisticated way ordinary people do.

What I want to say: environment, rules etc. increase the probability of trustworthiness. But there is no question that ambition and a personal form of egoism can also flourish in such an environment.

That is why I would say in any case that one always keeps one's judgement awake. Monasteries also have a reputation. I think, if one really wants to get to know one, one could play detective with the residents around such an abbey - there is nothing to say against a little espionage ;-)

I don't know exactly what I'm also noticing from you in this respect, but there seems to be something else I can't quite grasp. Any form of annoyance?

I don't know if the question is too personal, but did your mother have an exchange with others or some kind of spiritual refuge that made her this friendly and ethical person?

It was important to me to make it clear that a place like a Buddhist order offers fewer possibilities to develop a worldly self-interest.

Yes--impossible to ignore the influence of environment. I agree temptation, almost in the biblical sense, makes it so much harder to be ethical. Which is why the monastic setting would seem to make piety more likely. My experience with this is very limited so obviously my judgement is theoretical.

As for my mother--I don't mind speaking about her. She led a very hard life--battled lung disease throughout, and suffered from hearing loss. She raised six children, alone. One of them was severely disabled and another became critically ill and stayed ill for many years.
Her piety predated all of this. It just seemed she had an internal mettle (I don't have it). She never spoke of it to anyone, except us. Just prayed and examined conscience. Faulted herself when she had an unkind thought about anyone. As she prepared to die, years ago, she called everyone she could think of and apologized for anything she might have done to hurt them.
What a model I had. Sort of ruined me for the world--which turned out to be a great disappointment :)

We've got some similarities here. Though I wouldn't say that my mom was particularly friendly - she became more of a mischief in her later age. Raised six children as well and hardly ever complained about her own miseries. I met her sharp tongue still once in a while and battled with her. As I see it you held alive your mothers good qualities in your own way. LOL! No ruin can so far be spotted:)

I have noted the similarities in our backgrounds before, including the presence of twins in the family, as I recall. She and I battled also. I had many questions and she was accepting of everything. I think it would have been better for her to be more combative, and challenging.

As for ruin...so much I try to hide :)