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RE: Not making it on STEEM after the fork

in #busy6 years ago

While I love that Steem is used by people that have their lives significantly improved by the financial rewards it provides, I have to say, and I guess some will find it controversial, I don't think such people have much of a right to complain about price direction.

Consider this: Bitcoin's rise and fall has utterly wiped the cryptocurrency market. Many altcoins have suffered beyond repair. That's not really anyone's fault, and one can point fingers at particular events that may or may not have further contributed to those coin deaths. But one thing that doesn't make sense is complaining about the price direction, ignoring the market as a whole, when you heavily rely on being the very selling pressure we struggle to escape from.

Steem is going through some massive changes right now, and yeah, some benefit some more than others in the short-run. But few have actually considered what this reward split really means for smaller accounts: that selling pressure is now reduced, and accounts that never curated or gave a single shit about anyone other than their own profits are now encouraged to start curating and build their own accounts as a result.

Yeah, you lose some rewards from posting. But each of us is directly benefiting from another by curating, which is a fundamental process on this network; one that has been neglected for far too long. Perhaps things were a bit easier before when the prices were a little higher, but few bothered to actually upvote, right? Well now they have an incentive to do so.

Things won't improve overnight. They won't improve within just two weeks. It'll take a bit of time and effort for us all to see some growth; and while I understand that you and many others rely on generating an income on Steem, perhaps see the positive side of having more go into what you should consider 'savings' that will only generate you more money in the long-run.

The truth is: Steem isn't here for you to make a living on. It sounds harsh to say, but it's the truth. You can't strictly rely on the income you make and then find people to blame when a volatile market moves in the opposite direction you'd like.

I want to add that while I'm replying to your post, and have spoken to you directly in this reply, a lot of this applies to those in the comments as well. This is a fluctuating economy, and it isn't guaranteed to make you profit. Each change isn't designed to make the whales larger. Not all witnesses are greedy (some are totally useless, yeah).

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I hear what you are saying and disagree, @namiks, especially in light of the fact that many people here make more than I need to live on even in light of current prices.

My living expenses are in the neighborhood of $500 usd a month - 3100 STEEM at the currcnt price. haijen takes 16K a week out the door in STEEM for contrast. Many others also take more than I need.

I HAVE been living off STEEM and STEEM related money since Dec 2017. I work here 18 hours a day, every day, and help new and small blogs with minnow tips so that we can grow as a platform. People support me in many ways and have since the start. But with this huge drop from the fork, I need more help and will not stop letting people know. I think my real problem has been not asking more.

If someone like me cannot be supported here, who can? There are only a few of us willing to help new people learn how to format posts, use dApps and the like. Our big fish are not doing that and never will.

I am not blaming anyone as you state. I am simply asking for help to survive during this time. As our user numbers plummet, I try to help others, but I need to be here in order to do that.

I rarely pay attention to witnesses or whales. But I guess you know which ones are useless and/or greedy. I would not know where to begin to find that info. They are who they are and there is nothing I can do about it.

I deal with what is going on at the time and try to help minnows and redfish. I've made the decision to believe in STEEM and trust those running the show do too. I have no time to know which ones of those are good or bad and neither does any one walking in the door.

My living expenses are in the neighborhood of $500 usd a month - 3100 STEEM at the currcnt price. haijen takes 16K a week out the door in STEEM for contrast. Many others also take more than I need.

And now we're capable of fighting back at those who don't deserve it via the downvote pool.

If someone like me cannot be supported here, who can? There are only a few of us willing to help new people learn how to format posts, use dApps and the like. Our big fish are not doing that and never will.

With all due respect, you are supported. You're just not supported to your heart's content. And a likely reason behind that issue right there is the fact that people have been too preoccupied with dumping their earnings -- generating even more market weakness -- upon redemption rather than powering up and letting their accounts grow.

I'm also going to go ahead and make the argument that many don't attempt to educate in those areas because the majority coming here most likely already know the basics. Hence how they found their way here. I'm not saying it's bad and you shouldn't do it, just that it generally doesn't have much value, across the entire span of cryptocurrency, because there's generally not an interest for it.

Again, I'm not saying quit, just perhaps diverse the content a bit more if you're really dependent on earning an income via Steem. Try new things and see what performs and what doesn't.

I am not blaming anyone as you state.

That was more geared towards the other comments.

I have been posting minnow tips for two years now, @namiks. I assure you people have no idea what to do when they get here. This is why we have a 95% kill rate and most people who walk in the door leave in two weeks or less. I work with people who get to 45 rep for the most part and they are NOT crypto knowledgeable or able to even blog when they start sometimes. These people are called "the masses" and supposedly we want them here.

My work has value because we are trying to grow this platform beyond the sliver of the population who is involved in the "entire span of cryptocurrency."

I have three blogs, using and testing the most popular and highest paying STEEM dApps and posting 40+ posts per week, along with 300+ comments. I assure you this work is diverse. I point others to what I am doing on any given dApp and help them if they want to try. For the ones I do not use, I have STEEM connections I can send them to. I try new things here constantly and write reviews of them.

I do not know what more I can tell you. A handful of crypto-nerds downvoting each other is not an ecosystem to draw people in.

PS - few downvotes are going to haejin as we speak, so he is still getting his 16K STEEM a week for ZERO added value.

This is why we have a 95% kill rate and most people who walk in the door leave in two weeks or less.

I've spoken to countless people that have decided to sign up here and soon after decided to leave. Their reason was never a lack of understanding behind the tech. It was the fact that they had no interest in producing any type of content, and to add to that, they saw the rewards and felt it wasn't worth the effort.

These are people with jobs of 30k+. It's the curiosity that pulls them in, and then disinterest and a content financial situation that pulls them in. They were never interested in buying Steem. They were simply interested in seeing how much they could make with minimal effort. When signing up is free, people will take advantage of that.

Now, another reason why we have so many minnows is that simply so few are willing to take the leap to buy Steem to power up. Why would they? They're here to make money as struggling artists or students; then there's the photographers that came here to post their works because simply anything is better than nothing for their efforts.

When you add into the equation that earnings are absolutely tiny due to the majority being minnows and not even bothering to attempt to curate due to the pointlessness of the returns, that's why you have so many people abandoning ship. People see select groups making bank and think "Well why the fuck isn't that me? I'm out."

That isn't to deny the fact that people enter and are met with nothing but confusion regarding the wallets and the concept itself, I have no doubt that it happens often, but to ignore the bigger reasons, I have to say, is a bit delusional.

A handful of crypto-nerds downvoting each other is not an ecosystem to draw people in.

It's already evident that it's enough to make the existing users far happier than before as a result of the endless reward pool and bid bot abuse.

Your experience is different than mine, @namiks. I've been lucky enough to see a lot of people thrive after getting my help. They power up, they SPUD and will SPUD again on Sept 1. They are content creators who find their niche here. Often they see this as a way to supplement other income they make online even while growing sp. This is why I am passionate to do what I do because I see the potential of STEEM even through the difficulties.

Somehow the masses have to get in here. Retaining those who make it to 45+ rep is key and many of them will thrive. The question is how to help them be competent here.

We used to have about 10K "people who matter" posting here about one year ago. Now that number is 8K. So now what? Get more people to kill or help the people here now succeed?

I've spoken to countless people that have decided to sign up here and soon after decided to leave.

I work with the ones trying to stay.

We used to have about 10K "people who matter" posting here about one year ago. Now that number is 8K. So now what? Get more people to kill or help the people here now succeed?

We saw a massive bull market, so of course a lot of people entered and a lot of people left. There could have been more to entice them into sticking around, sure.

or help the people here now succeed?

That's what the last HF was for. People now have a bigger incentive to curate and support each other.

wow. One of the best comments I've read today @namiks

Pretty good comment @namiks

I think that what @fitinfun and many others are confusing is that the new Steem is not taking from those who produce, but giving to those who invest.

Content producers that rely solely on content creation as their 'income' are failing to realise that they are only working for the money, when they should find ways to make money work for them; it's a complete misunderstanding of how the economy on the Steem chain works.

Now... there's the huge conflict of interest, where on one side we need more producers to curate and make our vested Steem grow through curation/delegation, but also where more producers equals more selling pressure. How to solve?

I think the only way is by educating people that on the Steem the growing proccess is a hella slow and if they think that by only posting they'll generate an income, they will fail. It takes time and months of accumulation in vested SP to grow; once invested it can be used to add to the rewards gained by posting and make it bigger and bigger, then maybe they'll be rewarded with the right to cash out a bit.

It's a long run investment and not a quick buck scheme

And I say that from a producer's perspective that had to realise, adapt and plan ahead!

It was something I noticed from the start, really. I came to Steem with the intention of creating a plethora of content, which I did. Often two to three posts a day for the most part of a year. Even then, I understood that the blockchain, like all others, rewarded those who contribute the most. That doesn't just mean through posting, so I would often power up as much as I could. Even when Bitcoin boomed up to 20k I invested 1k~ into Steem to boost that power that my vote had.

Understandably some rely on the earnings to survive. I truly feel for those in places such as Venezuela where a post or two on here can drastically improve their monthly living situation. I find it incredible, really. I try to support that as much as I can. But even then, I've seen some that still try their best to improve their SP and look at the long-run of Steem's potential.

The selling pressure we exerience will never go away, of course, but with changes like this 50/50 reward split, it does help slightly. People are now essentially forced to grow their accounts and become more vital members of the blockchain and fairly distribute the power. The truth is: nobody came to Steem to spend money, just make. That's why so few saw the potential in increasing their SP. If we add on useful features that contribute to reducing inflation via Steem burning, we'd relieve that selling pressure even more.

It's a long run investment and not a quick buck scheme

It's honestly both. It just depends on how smart you're being. With the new split, you could easily buy a stash of Steem at these low prices and then curate like crazy, generating some pretty generous rewards. Then power down, sell a portion of it for profit and let the rest grow. Kinda like a little dividend.

If we add on useful features that contribute to reducing inflation via Steem burning, we'd relieve that selling pressure even more.

The problem I'm seeing is that the price of Steem is not clearly represented in fiat money value and, unfortunately, we still rely on fiat to live. With that said, how can we cope with the inflation/depreciation of an asset that is printed and distributed in a daily basis. I'll try to explain myself.

From the protocol point of view, at least for me, Steem is one of the best blockchains out there, with proven real use cases (projects running on it) and an imense potential for developers to create on.

From the invertor's point of view there is the potential to stash and collect dividends from it, either by curating or delegating. However, is it worth the risk/reward? The risk exposure is huge to put on fiat, and keep it locked for 12 weeks, in case the markets go down badly. That can be seen on the huge amounts of Steem being held in exchanges and not in SP.

So, now we can go back to my first paragraph, when it comes to having a link between Steem and fiat money. I believe the biggest representative of the Steem chain is Steemit Inc., but even themselves have been dumping Steem simply because they don't have an input (as far as I know, apart from the adsense). Many other project out there rely on Steem to pay the bills. And many user also milk it to pay the bills. The selling pressure comes from all ends.

Steem needs input in fiat money to be sustainable and the projects running on it also need that, there's no output without input, or else it's just printing money. Burning and incentivise powering up are valid ways. I don't see the input coming from external investors, as it's too risky for the reward, there needs to be another benefit.

Creation of SMTs? Totaly valid, but those SMTs also need some sort of input in fiat money, or else it just transfers the problem to them.

So how can we solve the paradox and the conflict of interest we are currently in?

You publish a few posts a month about your own interests, @mrprofessor, as does @namiks.

I publish 40+ posts per week on 3 blogs and 300+ comments with the vast majority aimed at helping little fish grow here. Minnow tips, dApp reviews and testing dApps are my specialties. I have grown my SP close to 1000 points in a year while also living off additional money I earn here during 18 hour days.

I also promote STEEM on Twitter and FB many times per week and help in Discord for people who are too afraid to ask questions in public.

STEEM has a 95% kill rate for noobs and most are out the door in the first two weeks of trying. I focus on those over 45 rep and 100 sp who post frequently. I give them strategies to grow their blogs and succeed here.

We are in different paradigms on this platform. No minnow how is here for for 3-6 months is making a quick buck or expects to. But if I and a handful of others were not helping, they would not even try to make it work.

Your work is beautiful @fitinfun and I've never questioned that, but what's your clear view of success on the platform?

How many of the users who give up on the platform were here because they really like to write? How many of them were here because they thought it could be a form to earn money, and soon got disapointed?

Users need to set their priorities straight and no one will be able to tell them what to do, neither you, nor me, nor anyone.

  • If their intention is to write and interact, then your work is of great help and they'll stick to you.

  • If their intention is to earn some quick bucks, then they are part of the conflic of interest and unfortunately they'll realise it's not worth the time in a few weeks.

It took me time to realise my priorities and understand the macro economy on the Steem blockchain, that's why I barely post anymore; now I'm on the business side of it helping with the creation of a dApp that will add fun for those who like to write, but will also add a sustainable and realistic form of reward.

We will be successful when we have more investors and more content creators. MANY more. We have only about 6000-8000 active here now. This is not sustainable over time.

We have many initiatives that could be successful in drawing those people. I cannot predict which of those WILL succeed. I can only push those most promising to me. But if the few that are here now cannot make it work, we will never get there.

Now people are promised to make money to get them in the door and then told they need to "invest" instead. This happens when they plainly see others who do make money here. The place is too complicated to make them understand easily.

This is why I rarely recruit now and help those that are trying and somewhat succeeding over rep 45 and with 100+ sp. I have a much better success rate in this manner. Many people I help or have helped are doing much better than me since they are not dumb enough to work here more than full time writing minnow tips. So this is why some of those end up helping me financially on steem and off of steem.

There are only a handful of people trying to help the little people grow. I'm hoping the recent fork changes that and see some good progress.

We get about 1000 people in the door each week now. 950 are gone in a month. Maybe 10 of the remainder can succeed long-term with our current paradigm. We need to do better.

I still don't get what's your vision of success.

We will be successful when we have more investors and more content creators. MANY more.

Investors, also known as 'smart money', want return in order to invest in something and, as long as the world doesn't suffer some sort of catastroph, the current buying power is still fiat money (usd/eur/gbp).

Yes, it's possible to make returns on the Steem blockchain through dividends, either curating or delegating. Let's move on to the second subject.

Investors also work with something called risk exposure and risk/reward ratio. It's possible to make returns with Steem, but from the investor's perspective, is it worth the risk? Is it worth putting hundreds of thousands of fiat money (buying power) on Steem, where the money will be vulnerable to a gigantic selling pressure + the money stays locked for 12 weeks, so you won't be able to cash out in case of a big dump, or in something where the main company behind the system sells Steem to cover expenses. It doesn't sound very attractive for investors.

For me it's a huge problem, more users = more people dreaming with cashing out for some juicy dolars = more selling pressure = not good for real investors. Even if we had millions of users it would only make the rewards smaller for everyone and lesser the chances for those who are new. Plus the coin willcontinue to depreciate via inflation due to its nature.

I believe my last two repplies explain better my point of view about the conflict of interest and how a inflacionary/depreciating invironment works.

Now again, ***users who are giving up may be getting a deluded idea of ​​what they really want from the platform. ***

Am I being negative about Steem and rooting for its failure? Of course not, but that doesn't mean I can't be realistic.

Honestly, at this point it's nothing short of delusion. This "95% kill rate" is ignoring the sheer number of people that come here with the intentions of making money, then realising it isn't promised and that they may not even have anything they care to post in the first place; that, as well as the fact that the earnings they do make just aren't worth their time and effort when they have jobs, student life, etc.

I, myself, used to post about three times a day for what I remember being almost a year. I never expected earnings, I never expected followers, or even comments. Skipping to now, I've received a 40k SP delegation to encourage, and support smaller users on the platform. The ones that do know what they're posting but need the boost, but that's genuinely the majority here that are struggling and likely to leave as a result of the lack of motivation and rewards.

I recently gave 500 Steem to one user, alongside, from what I remember, another 500 Steem in delegations to 5 other users. All minnows that I felt had potential in their chosen areas on here.

Having read the replies, I can't help but get a strong sense of entitlement. If you believe you deserve to be paid for educating users, fair enough, but you can't expect to be paid a living wage. As someone capable of providing a larger reward: I'd rather hand it to those minnows that need supporting and not those attempting to educate them.