What usually happens is that they explain to us all the bad things that someone can do and why certain disciplinary measures are taken. When we analyze it that way it seems logical and we accept it, so it is with most things.
But the problem is that there is never a clear dividing line between what is wrong and what is right, basically because that line is relative, not determined. What happens then in reality is that someone claims the power to draw that line, according to his criteria, and that is where the problem begins. That is already control, whether with good intentions or not. The worst things in the world have been done with the best of intentions.
In short, I totally agree with you. It is preferable that there is no control and that everyone decides what is right or wrong for himself. That is true transparency and true democracy. I don't need anyone, no matter how skilled, to tell me how to think.
Scott, I think you may be mistaking that blacklist repo which is being used by Steem front ends. Not Hive. I could be wrong but believe Hive would have decoupled from Steem related repos since the chain split. If not, they should do so promptly.
The problem is this has no bearing in the blockchain itself as nothing is censored at that level.
Your issue is with front end operators likely running a vestigial code structure that should have been removed that is filtering blockchain data.
Suppose a front end operators decided to set up a node that blocks all content of certain ideologies of their own accord. Would you blame Hive for that?
TL;DR: Criticizing the blockchain for this is unfair. Criticize the front end operators that have allowed that code to remain.
Pinging persons that may be able to work issue on the hive.blog end.
Edit: I realized you were not critical but the opposite. Still yet your point on the front ends needing to fix the issue remains.
Yes, I am sorry if I misinterpreted but I am still a bit divided on how censorship on the most popular and robust front ends would be a selling point to the underlying technology. I'm going to watch your video and see if that helps me to understand better.
Ok I think I got the gist of it but technically this isn't necessarily a selling point for Hive exclusively as I should be able to obtain the same content from Steem. Even so, I think you bring up some good points about legal issues and Hive and other blockchain service providers in that it gives the user the discretion of what they want to see rather than government officials with big sticks. Obviously with issues like CP we go into a complete different realm than the usual type of censorship we see these days especially the politically motivated flavor.
We certainly didn't look into this before, but I'm going to make a reasonable assumption that Steemit only did this after being contacted by law enforcement in the US. If that's the case, I don't see much benefit to expending even the relatively trivial effort to display this presumably old data now. It's still out there, for anyone who wants to see it, on the blockchain, in any case, as you've already mentioned.
I don't recollect the context of this enforcement action and it's rationale from law enforcement but it clearly was an unpopular move on chain in retrospect.
Was it limited to this account or where there more and are we going to take it on good faith from Steemit Inc at the time that the actions were taken against content that was justified in the court of law?
I don't know the answers to these questions but imagine they would be the manner of questions that could be asked. If there a no legal compulsion for Hive.blog, I don't know if there is any incentive to maintaining that baggage lest we have more vloggers point it out and share w censorship averse audience on LBRY.
Also, hate to bother but would you or someone be able to explain the a bit more detail technically as to how this action carried over to hive.blog and peakd but not down the board to other front ends.
Is it that both share codebase w condenser and that is how it was transferred? Thanks in advance
What usually happens is that they explain to us all the bad things that someone can do and why certain disciplinary measures are taken. When we analyze it that way it seems logical and we accept it, so it is with most things.
But the problem is that there is never a clear dividing line between what is wrong and what is right, basically because that line is relative, not determined. What happens then in reality is that someone claims the power to draw that line, according to his criteria, and that is where the problem begins. That is already control, whether with good intentions or not. The worst things in the world have been done with the best of intentions.
In short, I totally agree with you. It is preferable that there is no control and that everyone decides what is right or wrong for himself. That is true transparency and true democracy. I don't need anyone, no matter how skilled, to tell me how to think.
Yeah for sure. The only concern is with big whales being able to obliterate you on here.
I remember Bernie, a huge whale on Steem used to destroy my earnings for the smallest things he dislikd.
Well, I hope don't encounter any Moby Dick couse my boat is like a shrimp, hehe
I didn't know about this bad experience of yours. So sorry
I also believe that HIVE is the most decentralized blockchain of all, thanks @scottcbusiness for your information. I follow you
Happy to share :)
Nice post brother, its important people understand this stuff and it is talked about especially with all the new faces joining these days
Absolutely agreed
Scott, I think you may be mistaking that blacklist repo which is being used by Steem front ends. Not Hive. I could be wrong but believe Hive would have decoupled from Steem related repos since the chain split. If not, they should do so promptly.
Well the accounts are still censored so?
Hive doesn't use that blacklist. Here is their repository
https://gitlab.syncad.com/hive/condenser/-/tree/develop
Okay, so then it just interfaces censoring because it used to be censored from Steem?
What about Hive.blog? This goes to a error page: https://hive.blog/@thedarkoverlord
From the viewpoint of anyone on Hive, they might as well be.
The problem is this has no bearing in the blockchain itself as nothing is censored at that level.
Your issue is with front end operators likely running a vestigial code structure that should have been removed that is filtering blockchain data.
Suppose a front end operators decided to set up a node that blocks all content of certain ideologies of their own accord. Would you blame Hive for that?
TL;DR: Criticizing the blockchain for this is unfair. Criticize the front end operators that have allowed that code to remain.
Pinging persons that may be able to work issue on the hive.blog end.
Edit: I realized you were not critical but the opposite. Still yet your point on the front ends needing to fix the issue remains.
I did say in the blog and the video that it was the front end platforms that censored and the whole was my support of the Hive blockchain
Yes, I am sorry if I misinterpreted but I am still a bit divided on how censorship on the most popular and robust front ends would be a selling point to the underlying technology. I'm going to watch your video and see if that helps me to understand better.
Ok I think I got the gist of it but technically this isn't necessarily a selling point for Hive exclusively as I should be able to obtain the same content from Steem. Even so, I think you bring up some good points about legal issues and Hive and other blockchain service providers in that it gives the user the discretion of what they want to see rather than government officials with big sticks. Obviously with issues like CP we go into a complete different realm than the usual type of censorship we see these days especially the politically motivated flavor.
We certainly didn't look into this before, but I'm going to make a reasonable assumption that Steemit only did this after being contacted by law enforcement in the US. If that's the case, I don't see much benefit to expending even the relatively trivial effort to display this presumably old data now. It's still out there, for anyone who wants to see it, on the blockchain, in any case, as you've already mentioned.
Thank you for the reply.
I don't recollect the context of this enforcement action and it's rationale from law enforcement but it clearly was an unpopular move on chain in retrospect.
Was it limited to this account or where there more and are we going to take it on good faith from Steemit Inc at the time that the actions were taken against content that was justified in the court of law?
I don't know the answers to these questions but imagine they would be the manner of questions that could be asked. If there a no legal compulsion for Hive.blog, I don't know if there is any incentive to maintaining that baggage lest we have more vloggers point it out and share w censorship averse audience on LBRY.
Also, hate to bother but would you or someone be able to explain the a bit more detail technically as to how this action carried over to hive.blog and peakd but not down the board to other front ends.
Is it that both share codebase w condenser and that is how it was transferred? Thanks in advance
Have you tried Twetch?