Dear Steem Community, could a decentralized community regulated account be the next step needed towards a better Steem?
Lately, most notably after the layoffs at Steemit, Inc and the accompanying delay of the long-waited SMT’s, it feels like a new era has started on Steem: one of involvement and focused discussion and calls-to-action. Together we have started to work on a better Steem, a growing Steem, a more functional and dedicated Steem, and, most of all, a Steem that is less dependent on the one for-profit company that we have looked at to ‘do it all’ for a long time.
I, for one, am very excited about this new movement and want it to succeed. I want us to keep on talking, but most of all, to keep on doing and working on both social, community oriented projects and development of any kind. All focused towards a Steem that is here to stay.
The challenge at hand
The biggest challenge we have to overcome if we truly want to work and continue working with ‘a better Steem’ as the end result: have clarity on who is doing what, where everyone is gathering to discuss ‘Steem’, which topics have been discussed, what were the conclusions, outcomes and calls-to-action of these gatherings or (semi-)private chats, and where you can I simply find out what is ‘the latest?’. Also, even more challenging, how do we make sure we get as many Steemians as possible involved in the decision making / voting, in a way that’s as decentralized and unbiased as possible?
Many individual and semi-organized initiatives have already started popping up. I applaud all of them. There are the regular State of Steem Forums including an complementary Discord, certain individuals have taken it upon themselves to write reports on some of the topics discussed in radio shows or on Discord, there are a few involved Steemians writing up proposals for the betterment of Steem, I’ve seen ideas take form around prioritizing importance of needed development work, and, of course, there’s community leaders, witnesses and developers taking matters in their own hands and simply start doing stuff, sometimes visible to all, sometimes behind the scenes.
Every single action and contribution is valuable. They add up and will make a difference.
But: could we get further, quicker, more efficiently if we had a more central place to work from? Are we organized enough right now to bring all initiatives to a successful end? Do we feel enough of the discussion is held and verified visibly and decentralized, or is too much taking place behind semi-closed doors? Can we make sure no ‘great idea’ is being overlooked by all of us merely because the person proposing doesn’t have the highest rep or best (high-stake) connections to get onto the trending page? How can we keep up with all that is happening and know where our hands, brains, creativity and intellectual input are needed?
Do we need a central, decentralized, community regulated Steem account?
I’m wondering if we need a central and community regulated decentralized place from where we can post, discuss and vote on proposals, and get updated on ‘the latest’. It should be a neutral place most and foremost, carried by all of us, where no-one has any other motive to post on then to let the community know about his/her plans, ask for input, and make a decision or create a call to action to work towards the betterment of Steem.
This would mean the account could contain a wide variety of ideas and views and proposals since there should be no bias to who is posting, and the account truly represents the Steem Community as a whole, including a wide range of views, backgrounds and where it’s clear to everyone no central party is in control.
I believe we need this, but since this community regulated account would only really work if we all stand behind this and want to nurture it, I’m laying out a short version of the idea in front of you, the community, (a bit as the account itself would work…), before any action is taken. If reactions on this post sound like a ‘Yes, please!’ from the community it will be worth it to set up and monitor and make sure the details of how the account works is laid in front of all of you. If the community, (you!), doesn’t believe this idea adds value to all that has been set up and is being done so far then that’s totally fine. In that case the idea will not be executed since it would not be carried and nurtured by the community.
How would such an account work?
I will repeat and emphasize here that this account would be very much shaped by all of us. Through polls and discussions and votes we’ll decide what happens with the account. But, to get some idea of how I think it could work:
The what
- The account could contain the following information and posts:
Overview of dates and topics of Forums (like the State of Steem Forums), Work Sessions arranged in chat or video communications, livestreams of Steemit, Inc, gatherings of subgroups like Witnesses and Developers discussing certain topics, etc. - Overview and summaries / reports of main topics discussed in Forums / Meet-ups, without judgement, but meant as an overview of who is talking about what so input and collaboration ideas can be directed at the right people.
- Proposals from community members, be it witnesses, community leaders or involved community members of any kind can be posted here so the community can deliver input or start working on the proposal (dev work, funding, marketing…)
Calls-to-action, for example actions any or a subgroup of Steemians can do that helps Steem get listed on exchanges, helps a project get funded… The possibilities here are endless.
The how
- The account would need to be cared for by a representation of the Steem Community. The Steem Community will always be the driving force behind the account and no decisions will be made without gathering input and votes from the community first.
- More than one person would carry the keys to this account, the community can decide who these people should be.
- Everyone can send in proposals through a fixed ‘Send in proposals’ post - Proposals are posted as a comment, so it’s verifiable by the blockchain every proposal gets a place (as/in a post) on the account
Everyone can send in links to communities, forums, smaller chat groups, calls… this will become an extensive overview in which nothing gets left out. - Post payouts on all posts of the account would be declined so there’s no question about the financial motives of the community account and those who operate it.
Most important of all: everything posted on the account should be with ‘a better Steem’ in mind, and ‘a better Steem’ is shaped by all of us - so we’ll decide with all of us. That also means all of the above is only a draft, in the end you decide what’s needed and how it would work.
My first idea would be to decline all payouts so no confusion exists over rewards and how to spend these. But then again, this could be voted otherwise, if we decide all funds should for example go towards a specific project.
To summarize
Goals of this post:
- To see if there is a mandate from the community to set up a ‘community regulated’ account where all things concerning the success / growth / development of Steem is displayed / shared.
- To see if people are willing to set this up and make it work
Goals of the community account:
- Have one place where anyone concerned about and involved with any aspect of Steem can go to and have immediate overview of the current status of all that is going on in the community that is workings towards a better Steem
- Have a true representation of the Steem Community by being unbiased and welcoming anyone with any background or view to share their thoughts and proposals, with no central party in control
- Have a place where everything can be proposed and decided on by the community and where we have a verifiable report of our progress through discussions and voting and decision making on the blockchain.
After reading this: do you think we need a central, decentralized, community regulated Steem account?
And, while you’re at it, do you have ideas how we could set up a decentralized mechanism that ensures maximum decentralization, but that’s also ‘practical’? With Steemit, Inc’s resources being low we can’t expect any new blockchain code to be developed, so the ‘solution’ should be something we can achieve buy ‘smart thinking’, leveraging the tools we have and ways to organize the community. I’d love to hear your input!
Please discuss and vote ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ by a signed vote through the Dpoll-link below.
- Yes
- No
Answer the question at dpoll.xyz.
Voted for Yes.
However, I'd much rather have an interface for all of what.
I agree it would be better to do it via an interface. I don't see a reason for a central account for that.
One way how to do this would be to use a special tag for this kind of important posts. Then any interface could be used to view these and anyone could post there - that's the most decentralized way. But probably not very practical as there would definitely be people abusing this tag for increased visibility.
To fix that you need somebody who will decide what to show and what not. We could have a community manager for that, or to be as decentralized as possible, a committee. This committee could then mark each important post via a special comment. It would then be up to the interfaces to make a special section where these important posts would be shown.
We could do this on Steeve and I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult for others as well.
@thereawolf @soyrosa @llfarms what do you think about that?
Posted using Steeve, an AI-powered Steem interface
Yes! This is a genius idea @hr1!!!! we have a curation guild that uses the exact tech to solve this problem. we have 67 elected ambassadors. The guild only votes if any 3 of them curates a piece of content on a particular tag (this is the #promo-steem tag and the guild is called CAMPUS and votes from the account @steem-amabssador. It was conceptualized by @oracle-d and built by @anarcotech. I am sure with some small mods we can implement for this idea above.
Awesome @starkerz, I‘ve been doing this in a simple format for @c-squared (Dutch community) - They also only vote on a piece if more than 1 person says ‘yes’ - since curating multiple languages is hard to do otherwise.
Posted using Partiko iOS
we automated this with CAMPUS over a year ago. lets chat and maybe this method could help you out a lot and save you and you community a lot f time!
Depending on how many 'oracles' you have and what the vote threshold is of the curating you can be as centralized or decentralized as you like. if you have a large threshold and a lot of oracles, you effectively put money printing directly into the hands of the community itself!
Yesss!!! Thanks! Would love to learn how you’ve been doing all of this, we’ll chat.
Posted using Partiko iOS
Cool that you have this working already!
The only thing - I proposed to use a special comment instead of just vote so that the committee members can still vote as they please without interfering.
But the important message is - if we agree on the rules, then any interface can monitor these public blockchain events, be it votes or special comments, and show what was agreed on.
Posted using Steeve, an AI-powered Steem interface
Interesting! Also it will help make sure the best ideas are given exposure based on the comments of people who have a vested interest... sounds like a very useful feature for the steem blockchain
Ah see?! This is why I wrote the post, sometimes what is needed is not 'that much', but can be done with a minimal amount of developing.
Thanks, I'm going to think on this more - you really made me see a different route, very much appreciated.
Wow, this is a really great idea and makes it as decentralized as possible. I love it @hr1!
I’m curious how it would work exaclty to ensure users are seeing the “announcement” type posts, as they would have to actually go to the tag feed on the interface for it to be seen rather than an account they follow just showing up in their feed. I’m sure there is an easy solution to that though.
I’d love to see this happen personally!
Could be as simple as the pinned post feature on Steemit.com :-) I’m starting to see the ‘shape’ of this.
Posted using Partiko iOS
It depends on the quantity of such posts. If there is only 1 important post at a time, then pinning could be used, as suggested by @soyrosa. Or if there are more important posts, but not too many - let's say 1 a day, then we can show it as our top recommendation. In case there are more than that, I think the best would be to really keep them in a special section.
Posted using Steeve, an AI-powered Steem interface
Oh that would be amazing! Maybe that’s where something like this would lead. That does make it a bit centralized but it could be designed in a way (just like this account is described) could be ran by many people and open to the public. Love the idea Wolf!
Thanks for voting! Do you have any ideas how an interface like that would/should look like?
(In my view, such an interface could become awesome if we experiment first, build later. To see what we need and first use the tools we have to really understand what's working and what's missing.)
Awesome idea i will vote later
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Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for No.
Decentralized community regulated account
There is a contradiction here. I think we have enough so-called 'community initiatives' that are just now abusing their power in so many ways because, at the end of the day, the one who controls the key is the one who controls the flux of information.
everything posted on the account should be with ‘a better Steem’ in mind
I think no one should be entitled to define what is right or not, this idea implies the possibility of censorship.
I also think that we can't centralize that much power and decision-making process, in just one account. People will abuse that power eventually, As they already do by using some bureaucratic-like-abuse strategies. We need to be realistic.
I am with the idea presented by @therealwolf, I prefer an interface/platform where everyone can publish his ideas, publicly or anonymously. If built in the right way, the interface/platform should offer most of the things that you suggested, but in a non-centralized-way.
If the whole idea is going to involve money, then this is just a waste of time.
Thank you, @soyrosa.
Thanks for voting and adding your notes @dr-frankenstein!
I understand your worries, a way to lower these risks could be to share the account keys with a selection of trusted Steemians selected by the community. Would that help in your opinion?
Here I didn't mean to imply any kind of bias/selection, if someone believes his/her idea would help Steem it should be presented to the community in my view.
I'd love this too but I also believe technology should follow experimentation/observation of human behaviour. The idea presented in my post could serve as a first draft/playing ground from where we can start to really understand how this interface should work and look like.
Thanks again for your input! :-)
Good first step.
Posted using Partiko Android
Is there a way/Is there a tool to do this as far as you know @wehmoen?
I guess there are more tools. Have seen some recently.
I guess this is now possible @wehmoen, thanks to @crokkon (post) via @timcliff's bounty :D
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Thanks for using dpoll!
It worked great! Really happy I could use it to collect this vote instead of counting comments or guessing if the contents of a comment meant 'yes' or 'no' :-)
Voted for Yes.
I would prefer it to be a forum like interface so that we can all engage and discuss as we often do during the SOS forums on Discord. I believe I saw @therealwolf develop something like this so the wheel may be already invented.
Voted for Yes.
It seems quite practical, and I currently have no qualms about the formation of such a thing. I wonder if in hindsight, that will hold. If anything, it seems like the right move especially with the amount of activism for Steemit we rally on our own. If we aimed our efforts at this idea, I think the implications are indeed favorable.
Voted for Yes.
@pennsif is doing this now.
Yes, @pennsif seems pretty much tireless when it comes to giving is daily updates and doing his radio shows and Forums <3
Voted for Yes.
Goes in the right direction. However, I feel a shared understanding of what "a better steem" means is a prerequisite
Thanks for voting @sorin.cristescu! That shared understanding could very well be the first thing being discussed before we start doing anything else.
Voted for Yes.
I like that you made a poll on this concerning topic, I voted "No" because I hate any type of central authority trying to control this ecosystem, it just goes against the idea of a decentralised platform, thats my opinion, let me know yours
Lee Kim Sung
South Korea
Voted for Yes.
This sounds good to me. @steemitblog I think was long seen as the place for the Steem info, I think we can do better :)
Done
Thanks for your answer! It would be helpful if you could vote through the poll-link so it will show in the final count!
You rock :D
Voted for Yes.
Voted for No.
That's not a poll, too long now for me.
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Yes indeed. Even better if Steemit could transfer their holdings over to it; but fat chance of that happening.
Thanks for your answer! It would be helpful if you could vote through the poll-link so it will show in the final count!
I don't like DPoll as it requires my active key to vote. Yes I know its via steemconect but I dont see why it requires the owner or active key.
Noted! Thanks :-)
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Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Looks like a great idea!
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
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Yes!
Thanks for your answer! It would be helpful if you could vote through the poll-link so it will show in the final count!
Just did ! Sorry I was too eagerbeaver XD Replied first cuz I loves the idea :D :D :D
Hahaha - I love your enthusiasm! <3
Voted for Yes.
Great post ! Very thoughtful and I believe it has a lot of potentials to make Steemit a better and leaner but more organized place :) Thanks for your wonderful ideas !!!
Voted yes and I hope this idea can be made to work. We can't get 20 people to agree, let alone 20,000, but if we don't try we'll never know.
Thanks for your answer! It would be helpful if you could vote through the poll-link so it will show in the final count!
I am not clear on how we can have centralised and decentralised simultaneously in a meaningful way. I actually don't think it's possible.
I can see the upside of using the Steem blockchain for such things, but Steem is not optimised for information management and project management - it is a bit unevolved in that sense. You can decline payments on posts and then have each contributor receive upvotes for their contribution (via their comment), so that would work ok in that sense.... However, I think that a purpose built application like asana.com would probably achieve most goals more effectively, since it is built to facilitate team management, goal setting and sharing etc.
As I mentioned to @starkerz earlier, one way to get around the problem of centralisation of Discord servers is to have a variety of Discord servers available that are rotated and chosen via a random number selection from the 'magic dice' app. - This does seem a bit cumbersome to me though, it's best to keep things as simple as possible.
Thanks for sharing your input @ura-soul!
We don't have a great tool yet, indeed, and that's a huge challenge for now. I wouldn't want that to hold us from experimenting though, from which we can learn what we actually need in order to maybe have that build in the future.
I think we should use the account to share ideas and get input and votes (yes/no, not upvotes), but maybe I'm not understanding this part of your comment correctly?
I am just suggesting you check out asana.com ;)
The commenting comment was in reference to you saying that the main posts would decline payouts. You said that maybe people would want payouts and I suggested that since people can be upvoted on their comments anyway that basically you can just continue to decline payouts.
Ah, right, I was thinking 'Steem interface', you suggest using asana.com itself. I don't think any third party app is a solution except maybe for specific working groups that want a way to plan their project, but what I'm thinking about is all the stuff that happens before you form a working group: propose ideas, gather input on the ideas, vote on which proposal works best/should be prioritized...
(Not sure where I said people would want payouts, but it's after 1AM here, I need to go sleep first and will get back to you tomorrow :D)
No worries. Asana can be used to track issues and is effectively a forum that allows a greater degree of information management than steem does - that's all.
I have a tool that we could use to set this up. It’s the same one minnowsupport made.
I like tools! Do you have a link/example that we can check out?
This sounds great in theory but in practice I can't see how this could ever work. Pie in the sky. If only there was a development in the works to actually allow moderated community accounts / communities on Steem blockchain... oh wait... whatever happened to communities LOL Did that get dropped by Stinc when they laid off everyone and chose to focus on SMTs?
Hey @carlgnash, I believe the order of importance for Steemit, Inc right now is 'lower costs of running nodes (RocksDB), then SMT-Lite, and 'communities' (Hiveminds) does not seem to have priority right now.
That's why I think we should start ourselves, and of course when better options are available move to that ASAP.
There's no communities feature developed by Steemit Inc so we better just sit still and do nothing in the meantime. That's your point or am I missing it?
no it was an honest question - I take it from your answer that the communities feature has indeed been dropped from the roadmap. Which is too bad, seemed like it served a much more pressing need than SMTs in my opinion
This sounds great in theory but in practice, I can't see how this could ever work.
I agree, maybe we should instead try to push, as a community, for the development of "communities features" instead.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
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Voted for No.
I much better solution would be to develop an interface where all Steem related issues and proposals could be discussed and voted on. Better yet would be to allocate a portion of the inflation for proposals that could be voted on by stakeholders (like the ones that Bitshares and Dash have).
Thanks for voting! Yes, a dedicated interface would be the dream. But I also believe an interface should follow experimentation/observing human behaviour, and waiting for someone to build an interface would mean we lose a lot of time in which we can already make stuff happen.
Exactly ideas like this could have in my view such huge impact that we would want them to be proposed to and discussed/voted by the community.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Soyrosa, you rock. I love the way you laid this out and thought it through.
I am at the point/position where I think EVERYTHING should be on the table. I have concerns about handling everything through a single account and about Stake Weighted Voting on said account. I'd just hate to see the hovering flag monsters voting with flags.
Does that mean I wouldn't support this initiative? Not even a little bit. I believe that it could be an absolutely great entity and it may well be the best option we have. I think it should be done!
Thanks Soyrosa. I just love that people are taking matters into their hands where matters have really always belonged.
Thanks @bigtom13 :-) Yes, flags are a concern, but only for visibility of the post, and people would know how to reveal/read all the information still. I'd personally love to see many opposing ideas on the account :-)
Voted for Yes.
Sure. Why not.
I think we should have Identity Access Management, Identity as a service.
That's the missing link going forward.
Ohh and I vote YES!
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for Yes.
I am with the majority.
Voted for Yes.
Voted for No.
All these looks perfect and eye catching on paper but there will always be politics everywhere and people taking advantage of this to benefit/make a name for themselves.
Can this account or initiative bear to be unbias and have no central party to control it like you mentioned?, Easy to say!