It seems that every generation has its own special memes for worship. Some times it is a product of misinformation. This is understandable since there is so much crap out there one can hardly make any good sense out of it. Often times though is because we fail to use our minds rationally. Emotion takes over, then mass hysteria and then all hell brakes lose. Such is the case with what people call vegetarianism. Nonetheless, as we will examine, eating plants makes you vegetarian as much as standing in a garage makes you a car.
We think that food follows a linear path. You know, we grow grass, the cow eats the grass and we eat the cow. Vegetarians think that just because they take out the middle man (cow) it makes them different. It doesn't. The logic might help in the construction of kindergarten projects about the food chain but doesn't really cut it for real life.
Life moves in circular chains, not linear. The cow eats the grass, we eat the cow, then the worms, roaches, fungi eat us, the grass then eats them. That's how life works. That's how life evolves. One cannot be a vegetarian on a planet were plants eat animals just because one choses to narrow focus on a small part of the food chain. Even so, If one is still in doubt of the intentions and actions of plants here is a more straightforward plant in some meat action.
Now to the next, more intricate part. Have you ever paid close attention to things around you? Have you ever wondered how the fire extinguisher foam is made? How about the buttons from the shirt you ordered from ebay? Perhaps your tennis racket? How about jello? Sure,.. you don't eat jello. How about your medication then?
Vegetarians (and vegans) claim that they always check the labels for items that incorporate animal products. Well, this might be true for some countries but we forget that 90% of everything we use comes from China. And really, they are not that politically correct like the touchy West. Unless you are a photosynthesizing hippy, you are guaranteed to be using animal products for almost everything in your life. For example, here are few applications for a cow:
As if this was not enough, in some parts of our pale blue dot at least, vegetarians might actually be killing more animals that the rest of us miserable omnivores. Mike Archer argues the case of Australia. Modern Agriculture practices for producing foods such as wheat and rice has resulted in the deaths of thousands of Australian animals and plants per hectare. The arrival of Europeans caused the eradication of most unique native vegetation, mostly to increase production of monocultures of introduced species for human consumption. This is also the case for much of the rest of the world.
Even if one is a well intentioned vegetarian, killing for food production is inevitable. In some cases the death toll is even higher than raising cattle or sheep. Mass agriculture demands a lot of sacrifices e.g eradication of millions of sentient lives every year such as mice. We could include in the list non-sentient life such as worms and bugs since higher cognition can still exit without our infamous cortex.
The moral argument for vegetarians has no basis either. Plants are sentient and can also suffer. They have biochemical reactions to noxious stimuli that are very much like ours. Just because they don't say "ouch" doesn't mean they don't experience pain. Pain, after all, is nothing but a mechanism for self-preservation. For every form of life is different because we all have different physiology. No life is better or worse, more or less evolved. Just different.
Remember, plants have been on this planet billions of years earlier than animals. If a romantic alien poet visited our planet the irony would be self-evident. We are plant food in every way. We are able to survive because they have created ecosystems that produce oxygen for our consumption. Our dying flesh becomes their nutrients. They can do just fine without humans surviving on the naturally occurring soil and carbon dioxide. They are farming us, we are not farming them. Claiming the title vegetarian is to say the least, intellectual hubris.
Much like most things human, arrogance blinded us, creating bogus terms such as vegetarianism. We are not at the top of the food chain. We are part of it. Every single thing on this planet eats and gets eaten either directly or indirectly.
As a certified personal trainer I can shed my opinion on this. It is absolutely correct, while we certainly do not need to overeat meat it is pretty essential. I`ve had "vegan" clients and they were so malnourished in different aspects that it was obsene. Especially for males animal fat/egg yolks is so essential it is laughable. Without testosterone you are nothing and let me tell you, the building blocks to secrete it are not lettuce and fucking apples. Great article!
I'll just quote what I see as the most interesting part of the article.
In other words, the fact that vegetarians do stuff differently than other makes them like others. It doesn't make them different. In fact, the more people are doing things differently, the more alike they are.
I love it.
Amazing i am vegetarian and i am more powerful than most of the man eating meat around me.
i practice fitness for the last 17 years, when i switched to vegetarian i only lost about 10% power overall.
If you make effort to think more deeply about what you need to eat to compensate meat then it's allright.
Have you read the book eat and run? he is vegan could you run as he does?
He became vegan during his career and still gain in performance over the years
http://www.scottjurek.com/eat-run/#about-er-section
If you want to know more about health I strongly recommend you to watch the documentary 'What the health'. It's a good introduction in why people choose to eat less animal proteins. In that documentary Scott Jurek is also being interview. Maybe you will find a way to get your 10% power back.
http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/
is a great one. I just watched it 2 days ago. It did open my eyes to many things.
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Meatheads know nothing about hemp seed and flax, smh.
Well I was getting sicker and sicker so there you have it.
Your comment doesn't tell me much. I have no idea what you think a vegan diet is and wat you did or didn't do. Neither of us really know the full truth but what I do know is that living off nutella is not a healthy choice.
This is just too simplistic. Eating a vegan diet really doesn't automatically = malnourishment any more than driving a car means you'll die in a car accident. Any person who is not eating a properly balanced diet is going to eventually feel like shit because of that? Whilst that is possible if a person decides to go vegan and just achieves that by cutting out whole food groups (usually proteins and fats) without replacing them with anything. This is actually common enough especially if the motivation is really weight loss rather than a longer term lifestyle change. But the vegan diet isn't an issue if it is balanced, the average silverback gorilla is hardly lacking in testosterone despite almost entirely plant based diet is it? And there is a huge list of elite athletes who eat this way. If you just make sure you get the balance of good fats, proteins, carbohydrates and nutrients for your lifestyle and activity levels right you'll be fine. If you do that and choose plants then you get to be even more than fine - you'll be helping avoid environmental disaster, missing out on all those nasty diseases that vegans just don't get and becoming a more compassionate being.
Vegan men tended to have significantly higher testosterone levels than both vegetarians and meateaters (see graph here), which can be a risk factor for prostate cancer, the reason plant-based diets appear to reverse the progression of prostate cancer may be due to how low their IGF-1 drops (see Cancer Reversal Through Diet?).
https://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/12/less-cancer-in-vegan-men-despite-more-testosterone/I don't agree at all !!!
Have you heard of Frank Medrano?
He is generally a bodybuilder and his power comes from plants because he is a full vegan.
He wasn't born like this, but when he became the most highlighted was the tide of energy - a "real high energy level" - and a faster recovery of power.
He calls these advantages "super prosperity"
Totally agreed 😊
Thank you man.
Tell me about it. There is plenty of evidence that we are omnivores. Most people are just in denial. Check this amount of research out.
It's a complex question. "Omnivore" is a label, and does it mean that we need meat otherwise we die? Or does it mean we as humans ate meat in the past? If it is the former then the answer is no. We don't need meat to survive. If it is the latter, the fact that we as humans ate meat in the past does not tell us anything about whether we need it now.
I don't blame you for thinking you must eat meat. Most people are addicted to it, and when you are addicted to something you will rationalize your addiction.
There is a lot of money made by the meat and dairy industry who are keen on making people eat as much of their product as possible, so there is considerable propaganda. Sure there is vegan propaganda, but this propaganda is driven by compassion rather than profit.
I don't think the world will go vegan, but my attempt is like lighting a candle rather than complaining about the darkness.
This is why I am an antinatalist. When I see people rationalizing their bad habits, I realize that there is something innate in humanity that drives him to oppress others and seek rationalizations to justify it. Everyone does it: slave owners, Nazis, dictators, and meat eaters.
I will continue to be vegan, but I am starting to think that the problem is not humans eating meat. Rather, the root of the problem is with humanity itself, and the only solution then is antinatalism. Boycott humanity and never breed, and encourage others to do the same.
this is the same as saying you are addicted to ...food..or oxygen.
as for antinatalism...indeed...the breeding meme has gone too far.
I don't think meat is essential. There are lots of products which can replace it, like fish. But why should one eat fish but no meat.... Being a vegan is almost impossible indeed. If you want to have more testosterone take a look at black maca. There is literally no need to eat meat, but it tastes so good that I won't stop eating it :p
Being a vegan isn't about not ever using products that exploited animals and hurt them, but rather minimizing it as much as possible.
You can easily control what you eat in modern society. You can't control what they use to create tires.
In the same way that 4 legged mammals have greater moral value than insects, worms, or rodents in your moral sphere, so do human women have greater moral value than 4 legged mammals in most folks moral sphere's.
That's because typically a 4legged animal is more developed and capable of processing what's going on than an insect or worm, at least as far as we can understand.
I'd kill 100 rats to save a cute babies life, but that doesn't make it right, but that's what I'd do.
However to kill 100 rats, or in the case of corpse-munchers, kill 50-100 animals a year simply because they want a momentary sensation of flesh and the knowledge that it's "real meat" is not just immoral, but inexcusable. It's senseless. It's not to save another more valuable (subjective) organism, no, it's just depravity.
Hopefully you would kill 100 rats whether the baby was cute or not.
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ever heard about Carl Lewis ?? vegan olympic sprinter
and is quote :
"I've found that a person does not need protein from meat to be a successful athlete. In fact, my best year of track competition was the first year I ate a vegan diet. Moreover, by continuing to eat a vegan diet, my weight is under control, I like the way I look. (I know that sounds vain, but all of us want to like the way we look.) I enjoy eating more, and I feel great."
Carl Lewis was up to his eyeballs in drugs like most athletes and used the vegan story as a cover up
my god .where were you before? lol. totally agree!
https://steemit.com/science/@shako97/mind-blowing-thing-about-universe-and-us
gUYS please take a look on this post
I would argue that calorie count is the most important factor. The difference between plant and animal food sources is secondary.
I disagree - I have a B.S. in Sport and Exercise Science, Certification in Sports Nutrition, and I am a competitive powerlifter. My strength has all come from a plant based diet. If you claim there is no protein in plant based foods then you are admitting you are not knowledgable in what's in your food. There are two distinctions that need to be made here - Vegan and plant based diets. Vegan is a way of living - it includes home products, clothing, and food. You can easily eat pasta and chips and be considered a vegan. There will be no gains made with that diet! A plant based diet, is a diet consisted from anything you can grow. Tofu has 24g of protein, almonds 6-8g, lentils 12-15g, chia seeds 6-8g, 2 servings of broccoli or kale is 6-9g and so on. A plant based diet is a great diet for any athlete. Don't believe me - check out Torre Washington, John Lewis, and Ed Bauer. The fitness industry is full of big companies trying to push protein because there is a lot of money in it. Studies are coming out now that animal protein will actually turn on triggers for cancer. Do you research and have an open mind. Just because the bro next to you said it, does not make it true #plantbaseddietsalltheway
As a personal trainer, what qualifications or relevant studies do you have to give advice on nutrition? Your position is contrary to the American Dietetic Association so you must have a strong argument.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
I haven't consumed any significant amount of animal fat in over 2 years. Please tell me exactly how to expect my body to breakdown due to lack of such an essential dietary component.
I will just say that meat is not essential. There is no nutrient in meat that we need to survive. Animal fat is high in saturated fat, which increases cholesterol, and egg yolks contain dietary cholesterol, and cholesterol increases testosterone, but the human body produces its own cholesterol anyway, so dietary cholesterol is not necessary, and there are vegan sources of saturated fat.
Kyriacos rocks! Better and better. Man, you're poke the bear with this one. Nice.
of course. I had no idea I would get so many people pissed though.
You should know this. Try evolution theory, fake moon landing or even flat earth. They'll attack you like mosquitos.
I did tackle some of these before and all hell broke lose. Maybe it is healthy to stir the bees nest once in a while.
It's a lot of new users lately and you have more followers now. Maybe it's time again. You'll earn a fortune on those three topics, hahah.
alrighty then. I will set a schedule and spread them out.
I'm waiting. Let the show begin.
"you'll earn a fortune on these topics"... nailed it @oldtimer This shit is intellectually dishonest and lazy, and is meant to provoke rather than provide insight or to contribute to valuable discussion. This is actualy the problem with mainstream media like CNN, MSNBC... it's all about the dollars, not sound reporting/discussion. You know rachel maddow makes $30,000 a day spouting propoganda about russia? There's insane money in bullshit and manipulation.
Yeah, food is like religion or politics. Ask me how I know. :)
go on...
Oh geez. :) Running a dessert company for a niche diet since 2009, I've become a lot better about letting people making their own choices.
In today's First World, food is emotional far more than it is a physiological necessity, and emotion, my friend, is the most powerful thing known to humans.
To make comments or critiques on someone's food choice is, for some reason, just as provoking as saying you love/hate Trump or that God obviously does/doesn't exist.
For the curious few who want to "prove" how emotional food is, I suggest a 5 day water fast (5 days of only water.)
I think you'll quickly see just how often you reach for food not when you're hungry, but when you're angry/excited/sad/happy/curious/bored etc. It's a fascinating experiment.
Ive been hungry before. I went through intense training in the army. Most people that are vegetarians never went hungry and left alone with an animal. they are couch vegetarians. comfy western ones. throw them in the wild and their ideologies will change no time.
No need to be thrown in the wild actually, just challenge them to live in a hot/humid third world country.
"food is emotional far more than it is a physiological necessity" - Spoken very much like a comfy western, just imagine people starving from third world thinking first "is this food vegan/vegetarian"? XD
You DO like to get folks fired up, don't you? ;)
I mainly try to be OK with the choices folks make in the First World; it's their turn to enjoy the party, as long as they're not hurting anyone I let 'em be.
Being hungry can definitely change your food choices, I'm with you there.
You sort of spouted garbage based on nothing, of course people are going to be pissed. You're not only factually wrong but morally bankrupt.
I give plenty of references in my post. Not a single one dared to tackle them.
including you. Your opinion means little to me if you can'r even argue the title of the post.
Oh wait, yeah you did, you talked about how plants feel pain like how we do, yet they have no central nervous system or recepter to actually FEEL the pain like animals do.
You also are ABSOLUTELY BLIND to the fact that eating animals causes more plants to be eaten by default, which means no matter what you shouldn't eat animals even if this was true.
Then literally everything else is you justifying saying "well we can't be perfect so why try at all :)"
Beyond that there's nothing to address and you've had your face bashed in repeatably in the comments by vegans with facts, and you still aren't getting it. Like I said, you're not worth my time. You're either faking it for money or actually insane.
it is inevitable. this is what I am saying. do yourself a favor and stop being so willingly thick.
nop. I say, that meat consumption is insignificant to overall carbon footprint. e.g having a child is the biggest source of pollution for the planet.
not a single one brought a single argument. only emotional ones "you are bad because you eat meat"
well, boo hoo.
In other words things die and get hurt so why do anything to contibute less to their suffering :))))
Like I said before, that's some sick demented shit right there you're saying.
It's been proven it's well over 20-30% of human-caused carbon output, how is that insignificant? Insignificant is 1-3% at most.
Regardless, again, you're justifying your misbehavior by blaming other things. It's not hard to ALSO not eat dead animals.
Huh, I saw you reply to people quoting scientific findings and documentaries, did you forget you did that?
Sad post. The animal agriculture industry is the lead cause of global warming, and that matters. The meat industry contributes more to global warming than all the cars, trains and planes put together in a year.
On top of this, plants do not have the brain or nervous system necessary to process pain or suffering. Animals do.
Please watch Cowspiracy and What The Health. Seriously - they'll open your eyes.
Also the obvious point - no one can be completely perfect, but we can try our best. The definition of being vegan is to avoid animal products as far as POSSIBLE and PRACTICAL. Therefore, you can be 100% vegan.
being 100% vegan is actually not the natural way of life for humans. some essential vitamins i.e. B12 is necessary for human survival, which is only found in animal meat
Wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Bacteria
my point was that humans source for B12 is animal meat consumption not where B12 is produced
Do you know how there's B12 in animals? Because of SUPPLEMENTS. This is because the natural way of getting B12 is through dirt - dirt on veg, or second hand dirt that animals ate, but mostly through first hand dirt because we didn't actually eat that much meat back in the day. However, because of all out hyper-clean food now, even the animals people eat have to be given it through supplements. That doesn't sound very natural either to me. Vegans just get their supplements first hand.
Wrong. Simply put - B12 is found in bacteria in soil (where herbivores continue to get it). You would too, if you grew your own veg. But now all your lettuce gets washed in chlorine, packed in plastic and sold in supermarkets. So yeah, unless you grow your own, supplements are advised. But that proves nothing about the intentions of nature. Show me please the length of your small intestine compared with that of a cat, teeth, agility.... looking a lot like herbivores aren't we?
Those statistics are highly misleading. It depends how the animals are raised. Especially cows are great for the environment if they are properly grass-fed. Many different ecosystems need ruminants to be able to flourish. And flourishing ecosystems are the most effective way to take CO2 from the atmosphere and put it back to the ground.
On the other hand, monoculture grainfields are the worst: they destroy complete ecosystems because there will be only one plant at a time. They truly destroy life. When life is destroyed, huge amounts of CO2 are released to the atmosphere.
If you don't want to see global warming, only logical result is that you should support growing cows instead of grains.
Why don't you look something outside the vegan bubble and propaganda? Maybe this will open your eyes: http://regenerateland.info/2015/12/24/a-collection-of-rebuttals-to-cowspiracy-and-other-anti-holistic-management-propaganda/
Or read a whole book on the subject: http://lettertovegetarians.com/
Grass fed cows are actually worse for the environment because they take up more land and therefore more water. Sorry, but your claims don't add up.
If you watch cowspiracy you'll know that there are a whole ton of people in the meat industry desperately trying to cover up the true impact of meat, so it doesn't surprise me that there's anti truth propaganda floating about. What did you think of the original cowspiracy?
Do you even think about what you write? Water is not a problem with properly grass-fed cattle. Do you know where the water goes? To the ground, as piss. It's food for plants, it helps them grow better. It doesn't destroy nature, it helps it flourish.
Vegan propaganda is totally lost touch with the reality. You don't understand how complete ecosystems work, when water, nutrients, etc. flow from one place to another.
What's wrong with the critique I linked to? IMHO it proves quite well that Cowspiracy is just a propaganda film, they don't even try to tell the truth.
@harrietbradley @kriacos , The major cause of global warming is world's population we are too much in numbers and you gotta do something to feed this population. Decreasing population will solve most of the issues. fewer people need less food, less space which in term helps plants to grow more in numbers. More plants will lead to less global warming!!
and you are right too... :)
This I agree. It's not wether people eat animals or plants. Problem is that there are so many of us who eat so much of the Earth's resources. CO2 is rising because we cleared our forest. It does matter if we use the cleared land to feed cows or grow wheat
So problem is how to control the population. Do we choose or let nature take its course?
I think mother nature will take care of it very soon, we already seeing how the her "immune system" has started fighting off the human disease through natural disasters all around the world, if we dont sort ourselves out fast mother nature will do it for us, the world isn't going to die off because of our decisions.
false claim. plant agriculture causes much the same problems as I reference in my post.
they have a very similar structure. read the article. again. i reference.
you can't. you still kill animals to eat your vegan products. again. referenced in the post.
Hey, sorry, but I think you may have misunderstood me.
Let me try and explain clearer so you might be able to understand this time.
You're saying plants cause global warming... Technically this is true. But what do animals eat? Thats right, plants! And a lot of them. This means that in order to eat animals, you have to make a LOT more plants and use a LOT more water than if you just eat the plants. This is very basic logic. Very basic. There is no way around it - An omnivorous diet causes waaaaaaay more greenhouse gases than a vegan one.
Secondly, if you don't have a brain, even if the plant is producing distress hormones or whatever, it had nothing to process them with. However, even if you were right, again, you have to feed animals plants. Therefore, if you want to minimise damage, you should still go vegan as less plants will be 'harmed'. Again, very basic logic.
Please read the definition again, as clearly you haven't understood it. Perhaps if you still can't understand, you should look up the definitions of 'possible' and 'practical'. Essentially the definition means that you can be vegan without avoiding animal suffering entirely, because it appreciates this may not be POSSIBLE or PRACTICAL. Again, if you don't know what these words mean Google will help.
Its a tough spot to be in for a vegan. I eat meat myself but for vegan people I know its really hard to commit. Not a lot of options, being big meat consumers the system takes you that way. Your choices are narrowed to what food suppliers have to offer, and they will offer what is the most profitable for them. Being that the masses are carnivorous... do the math.
Great info in this post @kyriacos !
They might not eat meat by the surely use animal products either they like it or not. Heck, even their salad kills more animals such as mice since mass agriculture demands mass exterminations.
thank you man.
What if, global warming is a lie?
And even if it's true, you REALLY think it's because of cows?
Sure, it's wrong, but how do you explain drinkable non-salted water disappearing?
Global warming, find, deny it, but you can't deny the droughts that's happening and the forests being cleared for animal agriculture.
My parents are geologists, they told me 5, 10, 20 years ago that, according to the life cycle of our planet, minor ice age is coming.
Drinkable non-salted water disappearing - have YOU seen it?
Even if so, it doesn't disappear, it gust goes from liquid form, being evaporated. So, it's still with us, no worries :)
Forest clearing IS bad, for sure. But maybe too much of the population is the problem?
Why not to fight things that cause the problem?
Non-salted water does disappear when it becomes salted.
Almost every fresh water source in the world (especially the west) is depleted or nearly depleted. Once those are gone the only drinkable water we will have or water for crops will come from the sky and from desalination plants, of which nobody is building as they are not profitable, and that's all capitalists care about.
It took literally forever to build those reserves up and not even 100 years of us not tapping into them will refill them.
To put it in perspective in the US alone the animals consume 55 Trillion, yes trillion, gallons of water, and that does not even account for the water consumed in growing their feed, which is oddly enough the majority of crops in the USA.
Every burger is literally 4,000 gallons of fresh drinkable water. That's over 160 showers for the average American (they take the longest of showers).
And don't you mention fracking, while it's horrible it's 520x less horrible than eating dead animals in terms of water consumption.
This is the problem with you people.
Rather than change and make a different you blame the problem on other things, such as population.
What is your solution? Murder all of Africa? Forced sterilization?
Sorry but eating plants is much easier, as none of those forests (rainforests especially) were cleared because there wasn't space for someone to live somehwere else.
They were cleared because sociopaths demand dead animals with every single meal and refuse to acknowledge the impact they cause.
Are you suggesting that I should physically assault people like you?
:^)
Well, you see? I'm russian, we have loads of drinkable water here :)
In worst case, we have Baikal lake
And I'm former military sniper, so:
well... I think, you know the answer, come :)
What if, we just eat less meat? What if we switch to chicken or pork?
Why you suggest just to stop eating meat at all? Isn't it too radical? Eating less meat - well, yeah, I'm ready for that. But not eat meat at all - this will just cause confrontation.
I'm not saying that we should kill extra population (even though I can help :) joking) but we should learn to handle it somehow. Most part of India are vegetarians (not sure though) and India has enormously huge population.
And I consider it dangerous for my health to be vegetarian. I tried it when I lived in India for 3 weeks. I've spent lots of time just eating vegetables. I eat enormous amounts of them, then I'm hungry in 2 hours, I eat enormous amounts of vegetables again. And so on and on.
When I eat meat, I am not feeling anything close to being hungry in 6-10 hours. I prefer spending my life not eating all the time.
You're lucky, Russia is one of the less-exploited regions...buuut that also means you'll probably get hundreds of millions of refugees in a couple decades :)
The problem is unless we go down to what many (healthy) traditional societies ate, which is only 1-3% of their calories from meat/animal-products (when stationary and in civilization), then things would still be horrible environmentally.
It'd certainly help, but any less than that and things aren't going to improve all too much. There's no need for it at all though, so why eat it at all?
That's because of the density of the food. If you ate more fatty foods (or less juicy foods) you'd be fine.
Because your body is used to ultra-dense sources from animals (which have been concentrated) such as milk/cheese/eggs/meat your stomach capacity is lower...plus those vegetables might have simply been cooked too healthily or more-so you didn't have enough of the main part of the meal, the start (most likely).
Vegetables have super low calories, that's why in every culture the base of the meal is always a starch like potatoes, rice, bread, etc, with vegetables, legumes (beans), or meat on the side/on top.
I was the same way for the first month I stopped eating meat/dairy/etc, then I realized I was simply not eating enough and I begun gorging myself on huge bowls of spaghetti every night, or a huge bowl of beans and another bowl of rice with many many tortillas, etc.
Then I was fine :)
I usually only eat twice a day now, just a small breakfast then I'll have a big dinner sometime later in the day, probably only spend about 30minutes eating all day if even that, but I am a quick eater.
Global warming isn't a lie though.
Partially - it is. But we are "lucky" - we will see minor ice age pretty soon
You have fangs, just as all predators. Why?
Part of cowspiracy as well? :)
So, don't look miserable, chewing grass! :v
Haha! We don't have fangs. Look at actual predators to see what fangs actually look like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_tooth
I agree, Wikipedia is not the most trusted source but not in the case of anatomy
You really think, we need fangs (canine teeth, ok) for tearing vegetables apart? :)
Incisors are just perfect for that.
I will always prefer meat as it makkes me forget about hunger for 6-10 hours.
And I use this time to prosper, invent, develop myself instead of chewing grass and thinking, what to chew next
Well said @harrietbradley! I avoid animal products in as far as is possible as I cannot in conscience deliberately cause suffering. I don't use either of the 'V words' though, and reading many of the comments below, I think I'll keep it that way.
Thanks! And well done for making an effort to do your bit. May I ask why you don't use the v words? Because of attack or because of the stereotypes/ associations?
A bit of both really. As you know, all vegans/vegetarians are pompous, self-important snobs who need to be taken down a peg or two. I'm over 30 years a veggie and believe me, I've heard every inane argument in defence of cruelty ad nauseam.
I know it won't be in my lifetime, but I'm confident that a more civilised version of the human race will look back at our treatment of our fellow creatures with horror and disbelief.
So it's not sad, it is the opposite, based on truth. You can relax. If you want to save the planet don't have kids. You'd be pushing them into veganism anyway and they'd be weak and death before you know it.
Lol okay. I'm sorry but I can't have a sensible conversation with someone who doesn't believe in global warming, and also thinks that plants feel pain. Mate - plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system in order to process pain or have a consciousness. Even if they have distress hormones or whatever, they have nothing to process them with. Sorry, but you can't fall back on that one.
In this article I get the impression that the vegetarians gets hammered down without a proper defence. This article talks about the circle of life, that plants are more complex then we think and almost everything contains something from an animals. The reason why people choose not to eat animals is sadly not mentioned. Maybe we shouldn't place people in box and then look for reason that box morally doesn't exist.
The vegetarians get hammered down without proper defence. True. But why? Here's the reason... The number of people living on a vegetarian diet are as few as minimum. And all the vegetarians know that it's wrong to kill animals for eating.(morally, ethically, environmentally, whatever). What we can say in defence is that you should try vegetarian diet once and you'll feel the difference yourself. What more can we say? If we say, you're going to feel better, you'll be prone to less diseases or you'll have peace and calm behaviour. Is anybody going to listen?
And I think the things mentioned here regarding the food chain. Well, LOL!
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One question, would you be able to kill yourself what you eat?
If not you are just hypocrite.
I still agree it's unpossible not killing, take your car you kill a bunch of insects..., cut your grass...
But Is it a reason to kill for gustative pleasure as we don't need meat to be healthy.
I agree plant can have a form of feelings, so i try to preserve to the maximum nature around me. It's not because i can't have 0 effect on nature , i burn carbone gas as all humans than we should not do effort in order to decrease our impact on nature. Same for meat, it's not because i can't avoid killing than all of sudden i start to eat everything, do you eat dog and cat? Why don't you do afterall? Ho just because you love them? Why don't you like other animals?
Actually , It's all about exploit everything to consum more and more to keep positive PIB and save our unsustainable economy system.
How economy could grow for eternity in a finite system with limited amount of raw materials?
We already use more raw materials per year than earth can produce , but we don't care after all if we let ash to futur generation.
I raise chickens and rabbits. What do you think? :)
True, very few would have the courage to kill the things they eat. If they see the torture and pain the animals go through, many will have second thoughts about their food habits
As a matter of fact, I do
So I respect what you think even if i disagree.
I love hunting
I was a vegetarian for about three years in my early twenties. My then boyfriend was a strict vegan, and we only ate biological food from trusted sources. I also tried to avoid buying leather bags, boots etc.
I did it because I felt sorry to kill animals for food and leather. Your first argument wouldn't make me change my mind, and it's still not that convincing for me now to be honest, for the following reason: I believe that if we really stopped raising animals for food we would slowly have to turn to other raw sources for the rest of their applications. Materials are more flexible than we think. There can be many smart ways of substituting a raw material with another or synthesizing one with similar properties.
The reasons I stopped being a vegetarian were the following:
As my vegan boyfriend claimed, if you really care about animals, you cut off all animal products. Why is imprisonment, confinement and forceful impregnation of cows so that we can get their milk, for example, worse than just hunting and killing? The point is to end animal abuse, right? Is hunting an abuse, since the animal dies fast and you use its meat for eating instead of torturing it?
I give him that.
Your third argument about plants experiencing pain. Plants want to survive too, plants feel pain too, and I remember reading an article about how plants warn each other of predators and they change their biochemistry to fight them off. So it doesn't really matter whether its animals or plants, you are still killing something. Since it's impossible to live just by photosynthesis, it was either my survival or the rest of life's.
Practical issues. Finding only vegan, biological food and in a great variety, (variety is key as I would be missing out on many readily available nutrients found in meat), is both extremely expensive and almost unavailable in my country. I don't think I could live a healthy life under these circumstances.
I still feel sorry for eating animals and especially having a pet I often feel hypocritical for the discrimination. At this point, however, I'm more likely to set my pet free back in its nature than become a vegetarian again. Life is harsh indeed, but I guess you either adapt or perish.
Nicely put. We already started making artificial meat. It only a matter of time for mass adoption.
Until then though, no one can be a vegetarian
Hah, I have to say I agree with you. Actually I don't mind people become vegetarian, be the point is I hope them don't just simply pretend that they are in higher class than the others. I see a lot of them just seem like look down other who eat meat! Like they will say, no, how can you eat meat which killing animal. Come on, you are killing a plant!
You have to 'kill' infinitely more plants in order to eat meat, because animals eat plants. Lots of them. Therefore, if you want to save as many plants as possible, you should still go vegan.
That wouldnt change anything when it comes to the amount of 'killing' going on. Turn a wheatfield into a forest and you'll have huge massacres going on every day. Plants killing insects, insects killing plants, fungi killing everything and being killed by almost everything.
The only impact humans have in that cycle, really, is changing who gets to kill whom. If you weren't feeding soy to cattle, than the space of the soy field would be occupied by wild cats killing squirrels.
The only thing a vegan/vegetarian is reducing is the variety of his/her diet.
Actually the soy could be fed to people who are currently starving - if the world went vegan, world hunger would be solved.
...
World hunger is quite solvable. Charities are either blind, stupid or dont want to be out of a job.
yeap. moral hypocrisy
Every religion and person have their own prespect and opinion. My whole family is pure vegetarian and not even eggg and there is nothing wrong in it. I dont care is it related to food cycle or not. They just follow thing which write in our holly book as its written that we have not rights to kill or eat any animals and if you are Christian then you also follow bible and do things are written in it. There are also others people do things which they feel right to them. Cow is holly animal of us so we cant eat meat of cow and its our choice. Every country every religious have their own choice of thing and they think like it. Here if girl wear bikini then people think its shamless girl but for her its comon but not here some people think she prostitution but in actually she may good we cant say anything about it. Like this diffrent people think diffrent for their openion about vegetarian and if people are vegetarian then nothing wrong in it. Vegetarian deffinations also diffrent at different place.
Still, nobody is a true vegetarian.
At every place and thinking of people and defination is diffrent for vegetarian like before egg was in non-vegetarian but now its in vegetarian. Diffrent people following diffrent rules and books but as our holly book and our law i can tell my family is 100% pure vegetarian. Now what book or research you follow i dont know but here so many are true vegetarian
indeed
This post is amazing! because im in constantly arguing with one of my friends that is vegan. im trying to explain some thoughts that you explain very well on this post. I cant wait to share this with her and hear her reply.
And id like to add some comments.
Here in Uruguay, life is quite expensive. We are a very small country and we have more Cows than Humans, and thats not a joke! We produce meat for export and thats one of our economy engines. There is an important amount of people that have economy problems to have access to aliments, and vegans here in Uruguay are really people that NOT have money problems, and thats a little weird. I think is logical to eat what you have at your hands, and here animal products is the most common food. I mean, its ok if you wont base your feeding with animal products, but when thats is the only option in some cases, i think its fine to eat a little bit of animals products a few times. But a vegan wont do that because it cut the count for the years that can say: "im vegan since like 4 years ;)". This is a topic that interested me so much because i grew up in a family that when i was a little kid, theres no chances to choose other menus for the day. Sometimes you just have to respect what you have to eat and be thankful for that, thinking that is some kids around the world literally dying to eat.
Very well put
Thank you!
:)
This was an excellent post. I have actually thought a lot about this myself. A lot of my concerns are health based its actually somewhat difficult to replace complete proteins in a pure vegan diet. Also, having a lack of meat or fish in a vegetarian diet can make it hard to get enough Omega 3 and Vitamin D in their diets.
Environmentally, vegetarianism can cause significant ecological harm. Many farms and produce producers unless they are truly 100% organic usually use pesticides and insecticides that kill plenty of other animals like insects as well slowly damaging the water supply for people.
Yeap, many health implications are involved. Many vegetarians comfortably avoid them.
Yeap, pointed that out in the article. In Australia this is a massive problem.
Brilliant! As I have said to vegetarians who have tried to preach to me in the past; ...do you realise how many insects, mice, and voles have died so you can have your soy burger?
Maybe it's because there is less direct evidence available to them, or maybe it's the fact that insects aren't cute.
Cg
Hahaha finally (not that he needs it) someone with brains comes in to help @kyriacos trying to explain and re explain and explain again the same logical facts to biased, emotional regurgitations. hahahahaha
Great little thread here or as K says GOLD!
Nice point!!
loL. Nicely put my friend. I think their arguments are more emotional rather than rational.
Yup; recently, I overheard my friend's daughter telling my daughter, that it was sad that my daughter ate cute little pigs. She then proceeded to try and explain a slaughterhouse.
To my daughter's credit, she said; "awww, that is sad" and then took a big bite of her chorizo sandwich, and said; "I love pig!"
Ha, that's my girl!!
Cg
GOLD
O
L
D
I've told her (when she asked), that we don't eat talking, or cartoon animals; everything else, is fair game :-)
Cg
:D
you should teach her how to kill chickens as well if you are living somewhere rural. great lessons for kids to understand the circle of life and be thankful about their meat.
Very true; and in fact she has expressed a desire to kill an animal and eat it. Unfortunately we are city-dwellers, however we will do it, one day in the not too distant future.
Cg
😂. You must be so proud of your daughter
I have tried to imagine life without beef &pork. Damn! life would be meaningless
So proud! I was worried about her becoming a veggie, because one of her friends was. But that fear was dispelled at 2, when she picked up a leg of lamb as big as her head, and started gnawing on it :-)
Cg
Hahaha. Your daughter is the bomb
No matter what argument veggies or vegans can throw at my face. The fact that meat is delicious trumps whatever they can come up with
Except you have come up with tofu that tastes better than good ol fashion fatty pork, get out of here. Let me worry about d calories later.
Lol, tastes delicious, and we've been eating it for 2 million years.
Cg
Thank you! I've always been strongly against vegetarianism. Personally I really feel the need to eat meat at least 5 times a week. When I argue with vegetarians or veganists (mostly girls) they tend get mad or be like: 'You just don't understand'. And that's funny because I don't think they know what they're doing, and they're just doing it because they think it's good. Great write up. Resteemed.
Please watch What The Health and Cowspiracy. Veganism is the ultimate rational decision.
Aside from eating meat and dairy being awful for your health and costing health services millions, animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change - bigger than all the cars, planes and trains put together. I know this isn't what you want to hear - believe me. When I first found it about this stuff and the person I'd watched Cowspiracy with said 'we have to go vegan, don't we?' I was like '...do we though?' But to be honest, the answer was yes. It might not be easy at first but it's the only rational (and moral) choice. You live on the planet, you should help look after it.
Lol. This is exactly what I'm talking about. All the toxic emissions of trains, planes and cars put together huh? Where are your numbers to back your strong claims up? The problem isn't us eating meat it is our lavish way of wasting food and energy. Let's get real. There is no way we will all become vegan. That's just never going to happen and we don't have to. We just need to fix the way how we treat food and stop wasting loads of food and water. My mother went to a local grocery store 'Aldi' and she asked how much of their products they threw away. The answer was 30%. 30 f*cling procent. That's your problem right there and veganism isn't going to change that.
Yeap, every single argument is emotional, not rational.
What a sad post. I have been vegan for four years, and my health is ever increasing. It must be fictional health then, and I must feel illusionarily healthy, sporty and fit.. hmm... it's like saying, "You can't experience gravity."
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you must have been really unhealthy before then.
also correlation is no causation. something else might have contributed.
Yes, I ate meat and dairy. Explains, haha.
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Both of which you cooked before or was pasturized.
You have fangs, just as all predators. Why?
If you're so convinced we need them to eat animals, why don't you do it like all other fanged animals and eat your prey raw? I dare you to catch a kitchen and eat it raw, bones, tendons, organs. Hahaha. Fool.
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I love raw meat. Raw bloody beef.
And yeah, is it hard to catch chicken?
So, your opinion is, nature gave us fangs so we eat grass? Nature is fool to you? :)
@ericwoelk
If you're so convinced, that they are not for eating animals, prove that they are for vegetables!
Calling me fool only means that you have no other arguments
Nice article. even plants eat animals hahahahaha.
)
yup Boom chakalaka! cattle products to the moon .......
(
lol :'D
Great post! I read it very interesting.
Thank you
Nobody said anything like "eat meat only"
Vegetables and fruits are very impotrant as well
I eat meat and love it. I DO think its possible to live a healthy lifestyle if you dont eat meat but you need to be very conscious of what you eat / amount of protein you are getting
well yeah, but can you be conscious about what you are buying is animal free?
Credit
I've wrote in similar topics to this. Basically my opinion is always the same.. there's a food chain for a reason. Everything on this planet is try to kill and eat everything else. We adapt and evolve, this is done by killing. Now that we understand killing to go up in the food chain is essential.. why waste that killed animal? you're meant to eat it to get the nutrients.. nature doesn't waste ANYTHING.
Listen, eat vegetables and fruit only fine, but meat is important and we need it to maintain a healthy balance.
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yeap
The other day i happen to come across a video of Dr.Zakir Naik, a preacher of muslim faith, where he was questioned by someone that why do people are non vegetarians? His reply was shocking
He started quoting verses from The Holy Quran and said that the God always wanted us to eat animals. He says that nature created some animals so that they could be eaten. To prove his point he said if you look at the teeth structure of herbivores animals like cow you will notice that the teeth line is flat at the bottom on the other hand carnivores animals like tiger have canines, now on the other hand humans have both flat and sharp teeth so it is by design,so that we could eat flesh. In Another example he said the herbivores animals can not digest meat and the tiger cannot digest plants but humans can digest both, so we are designed to eat meat.
I have no personal opinion of his thoughts but his analogies are interesting to hear.
This is really sad to say that people out there in the world are having such a thinking and mentality about vegetarian people round the globe. This is both sad and remorseful. It is not only in what we eat, it's about its long term effects. There is no animal who's meat or flesh is not eaten in one part of the world or another, every type of meat is eaten. Now can anyone tell me, how is human meat different then? Will you people start eating human flesh?
Moreover, the things that we use everyday are made up of animal products. Fine. When animals die, use them. We never favour anyone who kills to eat.
Vegetarian people are considered to be more in every aspect. You start going vegan and you'll feel the difference. You'll feel calmer. And positive.
Everything on this planet kills to eat. You need to read the article. I address all of your points.
So there will be one day when humans kill each other to eat? Will there be an extinction based on this event. The age old theory of survival of the fittest.. is it true? Is it what we should do? Is this all we can do to prevent humanity, or is this the only way out?
When I say, we never favour anyone who kills to eat, I do not mean the animals, I refer to humans. Moreover if we also do this what animals are doing, what is the difference between a human and an animal. I know te hnically we all are animals, but still we have a civilisation which animals don't have.
Do you vegans need to over emotionalize everything in order to make a point?
Yes if resources are limited any living thing can eat another one. Yes the survival of the fittest will apply. It still applies today on a smaller context. richer folk have it better than poorer folk. At the end rich genes propagate more than poor ones.
Humans are animals. I don't understand how you can excuse an animal from eating flesh but you can't excuse an human. wtf logic that? We all have instincts when it comes to food. not logic. Hunger, thirst, sex all these are instinctual mechanisms. You don't love somebody because you rationalize it. You don't drink water because you rationalize your humidity levels. Same thing applies for meat.
The only reason vegans are able to do it, and especially women, is because they tend to be more emotional about men, having less testosterone and thus being able to sustain is better than men.
On this planet, civilization or no civilization, the most adaptable survive and the rest perish. it applies everywhere in society, either you apply for a job or trying to nail a date at bar. everything has a price. everything has value and all of us have to play by nature's rules.
Oh thank you for your rich information about this topic. In my point of view, you idea is very great! I like your point which I can make use of what you have said to discuss with my friend about what they are eating and why they cannot be a people who do not eat meat.
I feel there is always a disconnect when the labels omnivore, vegetarian and vegan come into play. People see the world as they are and so if they have a bias to a particular ideology it becomes difficult to see the other side clearly.
Also, there are so many facts on each side, that regardless of truth anyone can find what they are looking for.
Life eats life and suffering is a part of life. It is in our vain attempts to be comfortable and protected that we have Disney-fied the animal world. Most animals are far from cute and cuddly but they are miraculous extraordinary things. Being uncomfortable and challenged to the extreme is exactly what we are designed for and we should in some way seek those things out.
The absolute reality is that humans simply would not be here if we had not been hunters and favoured animal sources of nutrition over anything else. We have survived decades, possibly hundreds of years of little sunlight as a result of volcanic explosions in the distant past where the only conceivable way to survive was to eat animal flesh. The population was reduced to a couple of thousand individuals that subsisted on what was available on the seashore. Aside from that almost without question every indigenous culture hunts as a major component of their lifeway.
Nobody wants cruelty and the industrial style agriculture, whether it be for plants or animals is horrendous and driving this world into crises. Even biodynamic permaculture has its flaws and the ethical and moral arguments for vegetarianism and veganism fall away when we look at humans a caretakers of the earth and when you realise that everything must die. Veganism and Vegetarians come from a place of fear and specifically a fear of one’s own death. But people who eat too much meat or eat meat unconsciously are also deeply fearful as they strive for control over the natural world. That is impossible.
The ideal is to live a hunter gatherer lifestyle where there is no waste and where humans become one with the natural world. But that way of life for the vast majority of humanity is impossible. So we do our best, we strive for compassion and understanding and we try to do good. That's all that matters.
nicely put.
Enjoy both worlds of vegan and people that eat meat. Raw food diets and intermediate fastings can help your liver produce the hormones to help the body create testosterone. I love fish and steak and I do agree with the article, its pretty awesome. If you use anything from an animal how can you consider yourself an environmentalist? The agriculture system is backwards , grain and water for cows.
What gets me is the live parasites, does anyone have a way of getting around that? Especially in fish , which is my favourite ....
nicely put
Regardless of whether or not someone is a true vegan, the difference is in the mindset. I don't believe it is right to kill animals. Don't forget humans are animals too and we wouldn't want another species doing to us what we're doing to other species.
I think humans need to acknowledge that we are doing the wrong thing to animals, then we can improve the process. I challenge you to name a product that we don't have to technology to change to avoid killing animals. Even meat itself can be grown in a science lab without harming animals. Justifying our current actions by saying "it's inevitable" takes away any possibility of improvement.
I do, however, still thank you for writing this post. Because this mindset is what a lot of my friends have, and it needs to be out in the open, discussed and hopefully corrected.
irrelevant. We all use animals either way, either for medical testing to get our medications or in products.
again. the argument is. One cannot be a vegetarian.
I know what your argument is. But you're also implying that because it's impossible right now to be vegetarian, let's not even try or worry about animal welfare, which is the wrong mindset.
No it is not wrong because it is IMPOSSIBLE to do in the modern world. You can try and patch one hole but there are millions others. Even if we go all vegetarian billions or mice and other animals will die every year from mass agriculture. All of us will still use airplanes. Most of our products like medications will still use animal products.
it is INEVITABLE.
We can keep going back and forth forever. I'm not saying that it's possible right now to be vegetarian, or whether we have the ability to become vegetarian. I'm saying that ethically you cannot agree with animal slaughter because we are animals too and we need to have compassion for other animals. If you wrote with the right ethical standpoint, it will be something like, right now animals are killed for medical testing, for planes, for agriculture etc etc and this needs to change. Not like, okay let's just keep doing it because it's inevitable..
We can keep going back and forth forever but my stance is not going to change. I'm guessing from your reply neither is yours so my replies will stop here.
nop. ethically I agree. so does most of the planet. life needs to eat life to survive.
Joel Salatin (Polyface Farms) is using cows to reenergize depleted soil.
Soil that was destroyed by monocrop culture and overgrazing are now far better. Just to point out that raising cows does not have to destroy the land (as many vegetarians believe)
The other piece vegetarians overlook is that grassland are not arable farmlands. There are many places that can grow cattle but can't grow vegetables. New Zealand would starve if vegetarians had their way.
Thanks for this article
Indeed, nice mentions man.
thank you for commenting.
Even the British 5 found bill contains animal fat now.
Also including latex, toothpaste, crayon, and Bike tires.
They all contains stearic acid derived from animal fat)
Now that is a really good comment! Didn't know that but I do know Joel Salatin, he had this riding chicken coop right?
I believe that you are referring to a thing called a "chicken tractor"
Which is basically a movable chicken coop.
You move it to an area, and the chickens scratch up the soil (like a plow)
and shit all over the place, (fertilizing the soil), then you would move it
to another place so the chickens could do it again.
No one can be 100% vegan, even if you try hard. I heard once that roads contain animal fats. I don't know if that's true, but most probably. Its a shame :(
i haven't heard of that either but would'd be surprised.
Yeah, but soon, the joke will be on everybody and everything on this planet - vegans, vegetarians, carnivores, omnivores, fish, cattle, people-eating plants, baby pandas, babies who eat pandas, etcetera, etcetera, because... spoiler alert:
Nice write up always inspired by you post, I will keep following and upvoting because you write well.
thank you. much appreciated.
Your welcome
"Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."
You can't do it since eating plants that stem from mass agriculture inevitably leads to the torture of millions of animals. Also, the stuff you use also involve animal suffering.
quotes don't cut it.
"as far as possible and practicable" But you can't read. Clearly you just don't want to. You think I'm stupid enough? You think I can't read you? Who do you think you're fooling here?
Pointless. When millions of beings including sentient ones are killed to produce everything you eat and use in your daily life, adding a steak in your plate once a week, doesn't make much of a difference other than choosing broccoli over cilantro.
No need to get upset. It's just your "practical" advice doesn't apply. at all.
Then just go on killing willy nelly.
I do. I raise chickens and rabbits. they are delicious.
I said go on killing willy nelly. Klling the rabbit you grow to kill isn't killing willy nelly but hey it's okay, I know you @kyriacos.
I stopped eating meat because of the amount of anti-boitics, steroids, hormones etc. the mass farmed meat is pumped with these days. Then also the supermarkets spray it with carbon monoxide and other things to keep its colour and keep it fresher longer.
http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/why-supermarket-meat-is-always-unnaturally-red/
The further up the food chain an animal is, the more toxins it will contain.
organic plants have more pesticides.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/
Not if you grow them yourself :)
You can raise your own healthy animals too
Sure, if I had enough land.
you still kill worms, bugs and other living things.
That's my point, I didn't stop eating meat because 'I don't like killing things'. There is more to some people being a vegetarian than that point alone.
Like what? internet cults?
NO the fact you don't want to put any more anti-biotics, hormones, steroids, toxins and anything else unnecessary in your body.
that's true...
Most of the country use harmful fertilizers, mostly in developing countries, to increase the production and so that they can export to another country. if we eat that crops in the form of grains, flour, etc they affect our endocrine system. and in another way, if the animals eat that same crop and then we eat that animal it just minimizes the effect. we are doomed either way...
indeed
Some very interesting arguments here. I will definitely deploy these in my next argument with my sister-in-law!!
You are the second person so far to get inspired and go after a family member. I will start feeling bad causing all this family turmoil (not) :)
Its not about going after her, its about having facts and figures to dispute the nonsense she peddles!
well, she will have plenty here to munch upon.
Hahhahahahahaha (not) hahahahaha
I replied to @trafalgar on his post and I will make a similar point here, I eat locally raised meat and vegetables and fruit as much as possible, these are on organic free range farms where you can go and see that animals are well treated. Killing animals is not causing them undue suffering, we all die and often in pain, provided the amimals suffer no more than you would see a person suffer, this isnt ethically wrong. Inhuman treatment of animals where they are treated like products, not allowed natuaral freedom or food and are killed in a production line manner, is utterly wrong.
Simply being vegan or vegetarian is not enough to absolve yourself from CO2 issues, many fruits & vegetables travel huge distances and these food miles add significant amount of CO2. Avocados and lettuce use very high amounts of water to cultivate, soy is causing massive groundwater damage and deforestation of the Amazon, and sugar plantations are making mono-cultures out of ecosystems.
The argument that meat farming creates CO2 is bogus, if you follow that route then what are we to do with all farmed animals, let them die out as species, is that ethical?
You can be vegan or vegetarian, its a personal choice, but you have to be the best vegan or vegetarian you can, grow your own crops or make sure they are locally sourced, from sustainable farms.
I am looking forwards to block-chain technology being integrated into supply chains, we will then be able to know excatly where food products have been sourced from, how they were created and if those methods were sustainable or humane. At least one company working on this is Provenance
I don't think many vegans can do this. They are couch vegans not actual ones.
Also we all use animal products either we like it or not. Killing a meat every now and then for steak doesn't minimize anyone's impact. being vegetarian just makes one more ethically hypocritical.
Humanity has the technology to create meat on labs and grow it like plants. Maybe there is hope here (could go both ways I know)
Indeed we do. The future of meat is lab grown.
Jews are thinking that lab grown pork would be kosher.
as long as they are investing in it, I am going balls deep as well.
Jews has always been seeking for the ways to bypass Torah.
...and always failed....
Not so sure))) I like to read rabbies. They are the best manipulators i know.
Kosher and halal, such odd concepts; seeing as they come from the devoutly religious. It kind of implies that they feel god made some kind of mistake, thus is imperfect. Which is in direct conflict with their beliefs.
Nooo, it wasn't god's mistake))) Pigs are impure only for the people))) Don't eat it he said.
Well exactly; why would god make an impure (whatever that means) animal?
If I were to ever write a religious text; I would write a normal novel, and then remove all logic from it.
Cg
Why not?))) If he had created a human that almost simultaneously committed a sin why not to do another bullshit?)))
Personally I don't really want bowel cancer or heart disease so I'll stick to my shoots and leaves. But this is, in theory not a bad idea for those who really want to eat meat. Personally if that was me, and thankfully it is not, I'd be wanting to keep a close eye on who owns and funds such labs though.
sure
Yep mate the problem is this, Vegan philosophy or stupid bullshit can we heard today is incompatible with the human set. A correct balance is the way
Congratulations @kyriacos!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following category:
It's so interesting how vegan religious Inquisition always show to defend their higher vegan moral values.
We need to differentiate the real value of plant-based diet. Which is especially needed for older people because they have slower metabolism, so high calorie meat diet can hear very negative effect on their well being.
But really by eating plants, we are saving the world. Come on, it is nothing more than grandstanding and moral self licensing.
@frieda
Delightful post. We often had to give blood transfusions to patients because of low Hb.
vampire vegetarians. (hence my ironic first image) ;)
Well that was an interesting post, however it doesn't address the issue that the meat industry is one of the most devastating industries from an environmental standpoint. There have actually been studies showing that reducing meat consumption would be beneficial for the environment (1). And you don't have to be a "pure" vegetarian do do this, simply reducing your meat intake already helps!
source: 1.http://www.pnas.org/content/113/15/4146.abstract
it doesn't need to address the issue because plant eaters contribute as much as meat eaters. they just do it in a different way. I reference in the article.
Noup! I am vegan and proud of it!
Weather you like it or not I am better than you. I don't consume dead animals and animal products and i am healthier, with cleaner skin, etc etc. All your arguments just want to twist the wrong into right. I don't need meat as you don't need it, it gives you cancer.
The meat industry will say anything to brainwash the population and keep them sick and addictive. Just look at the alcohol, coffee, medications, vaccines, TV, and all that is wrong but called good.
As someone who was experimentally a "vegetarian" for 3 years, I would have to say this post makes a lot of great points. I learned a lot of these things while being vegetarian, but also some great reasons to be vegetarian as well. In the end I just didn't see the use and I slowly made the switch back to eating meat. I will say the health benefits of "not eating meat" are extremely overstated. You definitely can have a decent diet, with or without eating meat.
indeed
Our ancestors killed to survive not to get rich. They had to take as much as they needed not more not less. Everything was personal and no business. Now it's the opposite, nothing personal, just business :)
kinda true
Indeed a valid point....most of the food labels are just a farce...we don't get to see the entire picture...I've read in some chewing gums also they use meat.
yeap
Variety is the spice of life and the collection of vegetarian recipes gives you plenty of that
Great work 👍👍
lol. sure man
Vegetarians and Vegans are light planets apart just so you know. Vegetarians eat/drink dairy and wear leather etc, vegans don't. You can't even put us in the same pot as we differ way too much. I don't even see the reason of being a vegetarian. However, I don't have anything against Vegetarians and neither meat eaters. I do think it's a shame that extremists like yourself exist because your propaganda does confuse a lot of people at the end of the day and confusion leads usually back to what people are used too. However the great thing about the planet is that time always moves forward and we evolve. And no matter how many thousands of you on FB get great joy out of humiliating young Vegans because they don't have an argument. Your invested time in hate is worthless because Veganism is growing like wildfire and meateaters, shall over time become the minority. It doesn't really matter what you post because everyday we get stronger and as a community we grow. I know that is something that gets a lot of meat eaters angry and they usually end up just insulting the other person, but unfortunately it's the hard truth. Meat eaters are becoming less and Vegans are becoming more and many vegetarians are also changing to Veganism. The simple truth is you don't run after a squirrel in the park, rip it's head off and eat it. If you put a small child in a room with an apple and a rabbit, the child will eat the apple and play with the rabbit. Those are facts. Everything else is not even worth talking about. The worlds strongest man is Vegan and now even the worlds strongest woman is Vegan. Those factors alone have already made such a massive impact in the weight lifting world, where usually a lot of you radical meat eaters hibernate. All the other BS propaganda that the meat industry and governments pay for is only applicable to the weak. Only the strong survive in nature, the weak get sick and die. I was a proud meat eater like yourself once upon a time, but once you understand how we're being lied to and you see the results, the facts, you realise that their might be a chance we really are being lied to. I was almost dead, and there was no hope, I wanted to even kill myself. Guess what, out of all the BS you get told to believe, it took me no longer than 5 days of just veggies to save and regain my life! One of my dear friends had stage 4 cancer, he had less than 3 months to live. Now because of people like yourself that have this mission in life to insult and put down as many Vegans as possible, I held back from saying anything about trying a vegan diet. Then one evening, I though fuck it, I'm going to send him the links , the proof, and simple fucking juice recipes! That friend simply wrote, thanks I'll look in to it. You know what is coming next... that's right, he didn't die! He became Vegan and suddenly his cancer disappeared. These stories are happening every single day, the meat industry are getting these stories deleted every single day. But when Jennifer no longer has Eczema because she went on a plant based diet, and joe rid his diabetes in weeks after becoming a vegan, etc etc,your propaganda, your argument becomes worthless. Real life experiences and results trump everything! When your community posts "the Vegan diet killed a baby" stories, it just makes us stronger because even the not so intelligent Vegan is 110% aware that a Vegan diet is healthier and millions of vegan babies exist and I will bet everything you own and double it that they're healthier than the meat/dairy eating kids. All you guys do is make our community stronger. So I would like to thank you for your effort, I think you might have titled your post completely wrong, as I'm sure you meant Vegans and not vegetarians. 4 years ago, as I went vegan, I posted it all on youtube daily. It was just 12 crappy videos and the people saw the real results. Those videos have helped 1000s of people rid their issues and thousands of them now have new lives. Lives they were told that they would never have. Every single day I get haters telling me it's impossible and it's all BS. Yet everyday for 4 years I get over 20 mails on average thanking me. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you and your followers believe, and don't believe. It's totally irrelevant, Veganism saves lives, that is what matters. It saves human lives and it saves animal lives. Yes I agree that many vegans love to push Veganism, no force veganism on to everyone like a religion and I know that pisses a lot of people off, me included. But unless you're a vegan it's hard to understand why they do it. A lot of these people like myself have had issues, they cured those issues, they feel better than ever before. I wake up and I literally have so much power, I feel amazing all day and simply because of that younger people want to force it on others. They don't realise that food is the most deadliest addiction out there, and 90% of you don't want to hear it. It's only when you hit rock bottom, like myself, like my friend and like the thousands that have given me feedback, it's only then when we have crashed a few of us look in to the facts and see results of others. But that's nature, and that is why I don't force Veganism on anyone. You can only change yourself, I can't change you. But keep up the good posts as this attracts the attention of many people and when just 1 person does their homework and becomes Vegan, then it's all thanks to you! cheers
The lunacy is much the same. Actually your guys differences shows how ridiculous you all are.
everything else you wrote are irrelevant rants.
The point is one and argued in the title. You can't be a vegetarian. Either demonstrate the opposite by counter arguing or stop spamming my wall.
I can't live without meat :(
nobody can man :)
All this post is doing is trolling. There is no understanding of basic premises of decency or scale.....But everyone is entitled to their wrong opinions of which I'm convinced you are full of after taking the time to read the comment section...
you didn't provide any arguments. you still whine
Worse than Molyneux! lmao
Looks to me like you have not looked at all the arguments with unbiased view. what about what people do to factor animals now days, pumping them with hormones to make them huge or or for chicken to lay as many eggs as possible. This is affecting people in turn in a negative way as well. If you were in nature and didn't seasoned your meat or cooked it. i highly doubt that you would want to eat. Heck it doesn't even look appetizing its flat out gross. just doesn't seem like a natural diet for our kind. Now there are nutrients like B12, Omega 3 fats EPA and DHA, those can be supplemented. i get mine from planet source algae which is where the fish gets it for it source. i am not doing for the animals i am doing it for health reasons first so i can eliminate the amount of BS that's been forced in our diets like the fuken hormones in milk n meat, antibiotic, which you have completely ignored. If a vegan diet is done properly you can be much more healthier than a meat eater or vegetarian.
I lived in the wild for a while. Meat was all I eating..and it was quite.. "blue"
oh and you think your veggies are "clean"?
Amazing post very nice
thank you
wow i didnt know that nice information..just limit the consumption of meat
not many do.
Clear conscience. I know what I'm doing is right. I feel good inside about my decision to remain "meatless"