It was good to see several witnesses in the Town Hall hosted by @shadowspub today in the Hive server - that I eventually got in to.
I get a kick out of @themarkymark and his intelligent humor. It was also good to hear @techcoderx, as I don't think I've ever heard his voice.
There was lively discussions on HBD and the stabilizer, which I bitched about a few weeks ago in a post.
There was also talk of whether or not the DAO itself is cause for any price fluctuations in our native currencies. I personally don't think there is directly, but it does impact a few things as people can't very well pay the electric bill, buy groceries or put gas in their vehicles with HBD. Well, at least in most parts of the world. There may be a few. After swapping around a few things, you'd never have to turn it to fiat for groceries here. The electric bill and Internet though? Still waiting for that.
Biggest Takeaway
I went into Mattermost a couple years ago and dropped a squeaky wheel that got oiled. Adding interest to HBD. So far, this has worked well internally, but we have not gotten the flux of investors I was hoping.
I think this is due to it's limited availability. It is only printed for certain things, and, especially now, it is harder to come by and earn.
So the light bulb went off today in the chat.
Why not lower the interest on HBD and raise it on staked HIVE???
In hindsight, that's what should have been done, all along, with the HBD. My argument was that some chains offer up to 15 percent! Some are even higher and have far quicker unstaking times.
So -
What incentive is there to lock up HIVE for 13 weeks at 3%, when I can trade the HIVE for HBD, get 15% and have access to it in 3 days?
Seems counter productive, doesn't it?
So, I propose(d) we drop the HBD interest rate, and significantly increase the staked HIVE (HP) rate.
Think about it. If people were getting 15% from a long term hold, that say, wouldn't kick in until 3 months of staking, at a minimum of 1000 HP total, but it was worth the rate, I can almost guarantee that the price would be much more appealing too.
There would be a reason to buy it. People would onboard. Real investors. And, they would HODL HIVE.
Not because of Splinterlands - which is all but detached from Hive anyway with their other purchasing options.
Not because of 3Speak, that still needs many a thing implemented to compete with other major video platforms like TikTok.
Not because of some code that only five percent of the population can understand what it does, let alone read.
But, because they would be invested in the future of Hive.
That's what the argument always is, right? We don't have investors?
So if I do some mental math, to counteract the sell pressure of HIVE to obtain HBD, I say drop the rate of HBD to 7.5%, and raise the accrual on people's stake(s) to a minimum of ten percent. 15 would be a sweet spot as it doubles what one would get from the HBD, making the compounding effect far more appetizing to a true investor.
I like to invest in things. I've already spent over a grand buying HIVE since it hit $0.08 USD. #firesale π Anyhooz, hope y'all REMEMBER TO BE YOU! I always am, because who are you anyway?
because I can
So Can WE
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This is a very interesting idea indeed, and given that HBD is HIVE debt anyway, I rather like it. On my part, all HIVE goes into HP, and all HBD goes into savings. I almost swapped my nice chunk of HBD for HIVE at the end of the year, but then I decided finally to just put it back in savings, to continue with my original goals. I'm all-in on Hive for the long haul, and I'm deeply invested, so forward, onward, upward, and whaleward, ho, I go. πππβ¨π€
Smart cookie, my man. Lot of people don't really understand what HBD is !PIMP !UNI !DUO
Thanks, my friend. I looked into the nature of HBD when I was investigating and exploring what the Hive Debt really meant, and indeed, I've noticed. πππβ¨π€
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Sounds like a solid plan
!pimp
You on it !PIMP
There is no such pressure though. No one is buying HBD for savings at the moment. And obviously such talk is pushing people away from savings more and more. HBD savings went down by a whopping 1M HBD in the past 6 months. People are exiting HBD savings. And you are proposing that we should pour gasoline on this process.
On the more point, HBD is locked up Hive. Hive removed from circulation. Giving away 20% APR when Hive was at $1 was the problem. We lost a tool that we could have used today to relieve the sell pressure. When we should kept it in our bank and increased the HBD APR now to get Hive to HBD.
Mechanism is simple, when price is low have high APR on HBD. So more Hive gets converted to 1 unit of HBD. When price is high reduce the APR, so that 1 unit of HBD gets converted to less Hive than originally put in.
HBD savings have not been the problem. Problem have been non-sensical DHF funding, and bad curation. Giving millions of Hive to people that does not want to be stakeholders.
I agree with you!
This will also drive up inflation, and there are no buyers. And Hive will plummet. I don't like this proposal. (Tell me I'm wrong.)
I don't think it would have a meaningful change on inflation.
But I also think it would not cause people to hold their Hive either. People that want to hold Hive are already holding, people that don't want to hold Hive would sell it even if we gave 15% APR.
I am still converting Hive into HBD for the 15% though.
Not a whole lot, but I do it xD
I mean I guess, no one is a bit of a hyperbole xD
But the trend is clear.
I personally stopped putting more into HBD, even though I can put more. Due to all these talks about HBD APR. If it goes below 10%, I'll just take it out and put it into something like VUG, QQQ or VOO. At this price that is 288K Hive ending up as sell pressure just from me.
Damn xD
So let's say you have 5 coins. One returns nothing ((ie - LTC/DOGE), one returns maybe 1% in some places like USDC, another gives you around 4-5, we'll call it SOL, another gives you about 8, call that TEZOS or SEI, and finally, you would have HIVE, which could be at 15%. A chain you know well and has massive capabilities beyond any of those others. Long-term, which one are you holding? Are you plugged into the communities of the other cryptocurrencies, or is it simply to make money for you? Is there a place like peakD you can voice yourself? I am a gambler, and a good one. I'd put my money on HIVE and you already do too. Seems you could just convert the HBD to HIVE and retain the value, but get better compounding returns in the long-run because you can't curate with HBD. #justsayin
If I had put that money in Hive, it would worth diddly-squat right now. I am glad that I did not.
Hive being at 15% means nothing, when it goes down 15% in a year. (If you curate you already get close to 10%.) And I am not taking advice on holding HIVE on someone who has sold the stake that was rewarded to them.
Put your money where your mouth is and then you can talk to me like that. #justsayin
I'm a trader, just like you. Sell high, buy low, right? Here, some candy. Ported in DOGE to buy HIVE.
Also, I'm trying to look out for Hive as a whole, this isn't a personal issue.
It isn't a personal issue to me either. I can take my money else where. The money I've powered up is the money I don't bat an eye at losing.
And you don't have an answer to this. You can't get people to power-up at 10% already. Why would they power up at 15%? We couldn't even get people to park their money on HBD at 20% APR.
I don't think I ever said savings was a problem, what I am suggesting, is that we focus more on HIVE. HBD is nothing more than a HIVE IOU. HIVE Backed Debt would be a better term than 'dollar' !LOLZ
" HBD savings have not been the problem. Problem have been non-sensical DHF funding, and bad curation. Giving millions of Hive to people that does not want to be stakeholders. "
stakeholders... hmmmmm..... Yes DHF is bad .... but ... but what I can say is that we have had so many failed projects here in the HIVE world in the last 5 years that it is absurd to see how money is still spent on them without any progress. The issuance of coins to projects needs to be taken seriously and put under stricter rules, until now it is too easy to get coins from our pool, just show some idea, get your robotic upvote and 8 months later you say that the project didn't work and you can walk away. ( also like was this CAR problem ) π ... Failed projects have to pay 70% Max to 80% of the coins back to the HIVE world. π
Even my logical head demands this approach top stop scheming and lying, it disciplines the use of coins and the project takes 100 times more seriously to be successful, But not so that anyone would get on the tram bus... I got the coins and walked out at the next stop like a real man. But our long-term players are going straight to the slaughterhouse to give their last blood.
And how are you going to enforce that, pray tell me?
you don't force it, you make a contract, it's mandatory, like when you go to the bank to get a loan. But with different conditions.
Yes some don't agree with it at all, but it also shows that they are not fighting for change but fighting to get more coins for themselves without any demands from HIVE world , but they are not helping the system to be strong long run, I call them heroin addicts in this DHF ππ π,
To fix it you have to do it by force. Some even become violent, but treatment helps if it is done quickly and fairly.πββοΈπβ
Hive is not a legal entity, it can't enter into contracts. So once again I ask, how are you going enforce it?
If you are not legal entity, then Who are they who give them the right to skim our users coins out from the pool with this DHF system? This system must be shut down immediately, not hidden behind words like no one has any responsibility.
In this case, each project should make its own system and look for its own users and infestors from outside, but not ask for support from the community if the community cannot make the conditions.
I get the appeal of raising HIVE staking interest and cutting HBD, but letβs not pretend this fixes the real issue.
HBD isnβt just a yield toy. Itβs the stability valve. If you make it less attractive, you donβt force people to power up, you encourage them to leave. Stable capital always has alternatives.
Also worth saying out loud. Most large balances arenβt coming from fresh money. Theyβre compounding internally. Curation loops. Vote income. Delegation games. Thatβs allowed. Thatβs the system. No hate.
Whatβs rare is external USD actually entering the chain. Thatβs what Iβm doing. Gig work. Real dollars. Buying HIVE. Powering it up. Locking it. Probably exit liquidity today, maybe accumulation tomorrow.
Raising APR doesnβt create demand. It creates inflation and yield chasers. Lowering HBD doesnβt create conviction. It weakens the anchor.
If interest rates fixed ecosystems, crypto would have solved itself years ago.
I wrote about something just yesterday.
If you agree it is a stability anchor, than why have the interest so high on it? HBD, I mean. Makes no sense to dilute and weaken an anchor. HIVE, however, is the rudder that steers the ship. Right now, people seem to be leaving the helm for other things that are more attractive. If we make HIVE more attractive, it makes sense the bees would rather pollinate here.
Seems like an interesting idea to me. I am a long term holder of HIVE so I would welcome a higher interest rate.
I think there would be much more interest (pun intended) for people to begin curating and involving themselves with governance.
That would be the hope. I think most people would just buy it for the return though.
I think that's a great idea!
Right now I'm building up HBD savings because of the interest rate. If that were to shift, I think more people would actually want HIVE and stake it.
!BBH
!PIZZA
!ALIVE
!PIMP
!DUO
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Ye, same for me :D
Stake it, exactly. I see a lot of HIVE leaving the chain, but not near as much coming back in.
I would be completely for this plan of dropping interest rate on HBD and raising it on staked Hive! Right now it is too easy to just keep money in HBD and that shows no belief in the future of the chain like staking Hive...
Exactly. Give people more reason to stay vested and get involved here !UNI
I was in the chat and had to put my sunglasses on 'cuz your idea was so bright! π This is fabulous, let's do it! I vote with a good ol' Southern: "Hell yeah!" β
!LOLZ !LUV you Kitty, can feel that across the Appalachians!
I missed the Witness Town Hall due to some personal stuff, but I hope you had a productive meeting!
And regarding APRs, tbh, it was a bit ridiculous to have an APR of 20% (at the very beginning) for HBD staking... Not because it was too much, but more because it was MORE than the APR for HIVE staking... It's a bit lame to have more incentives to HODL the "second" token on the chain, and not the main one... + all that pissed off people who were here to grow, build, and kind of divided the community... After that, the HivePower became "less important"...
Back to today, I agree with you on lowering APR on HBD as it (still) makes no sense to have it at 15%, especially as nobody gives more than 7-8% atm... Not even on chains that move billions... On the other side, I wouldn't push the APR of HivePower up either, as we don't need more dilution of current token holder's bags...
To summarize... HBD APR down and LOWER than the HivePower APR... HivePower hodlers are pillars of the chain!!!
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When I initially proposed the HBD idea a few years ago, I said it should be 3%. Give people a reason to hold longer. Not sure how it got so high, don't think I ever set my witness to reflect more than 7.5 % π.
Something relative though, I'd even go with 2.5 on HBD and 5 on HP. You get me though and see what I mean, thanks for stopping in hombre.
I agree.
Investing in HIVE should be more attractive than investing in HBD, it's that simple. And also, the USD is going down even against the Mexican Peso, so the 15% is not a good deal.
And about 3Speak, I know we're not yet ready to compete against TikTok, but have you seen this?
https://preview.3speak.tv/shorts
Oh my gosh, the US prints money like it's free. And 3Speak, you'll get there! Maybe if it was say 8% for HP and 4% for HBD? At least give people more of a reason to hold their HIVE. That's the goal.
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