I feel I should make a post on the Hive user issue. We all know we have some inherent problems for new users on Hive:
- Key problem:
Key management. I don’t want to focus on that. - Reward problem:
Our new user has happily created his/her account, has understood how to handle the keys, does a post… and receives nothing. Maybe not even a cent. Some posts later probably still 0 cent. Frustration comes up (and I think it’s justified)… user is gone and won’t come back and maybe makes a bad publicity for Hive. - User expectation:
Hive is a colorful and nice community with a variety of interests and knowledge and resulting posts. But - when you come to Hive as a new user you don’t see it. The problem was already solved but stopped half way!
2. A possible solution of the reward problem (?)
I haven’t done the calculations - but I guess there could be a way…
The idea is to have a specific account that has so many HP to upvote one post a day of each user with a reputation in the interval of [25, 40] in a way that the payout at the end is at least 0.03 $ - just to be sure that at least 0.01 $ to 0.015 $ can be paid out. Still ridiculous, even if the post is bad, but any activity should be rewarded at the beginning.
I know some of you would say real newbies or somebody else could just do shit-posts to grab the money. Yes they could. If they do so all time we have downvotes and the reputation will be below 25 really fast.
All the others will be motivated to do better posts to get more valuable upvotes. And for 0.01 $ per post it’s not worth to trick the system - your energy costs for a post probably would be higher - not to mention the time to set up such a fraud system.
Maybe there are HP on accounts we could use for these newbie-upvotes, maybe we can create an account and if everybody is delegating some HP it would work and pay out for all of us. And that should work without any specific tag, following some account or registration - just out of the box!
3. A solution for the user expectation. Guys, we already have (had) that!
Let me first write some lines to distinguish between a blog and a community:
If you follow somebody then you follow his blog. You expect to see every post in your ’following feed’ of all the authors you follow.
Why do you follow ? Because you want to read everything from this specific author. You are interested in the author.If you subscribe to a community usually you don’t care about the author - you are interested in a certain subject.
Imagine you are new on Hive now: In general, you don’t know anybody and of course you don’t know who you should follow. But when you enter Hive you still have the same interests like you have had a minute before. So you know what you are interested to read about on Hive. So the first step will be/should be to find your communities. If you surf to peakd - the most popular and most sophisticated frontend to navigate on Hive - you find 12 sections on it’s landing page. They are all great - but the landing page should be the communities page. Then you find your first community and start posting. Your post will be read (and maybe upvoted) by others in the community - even though you don’t have any followers for your own blog. You probably will find some more communities and you start to feel home on Hive.
So the landing page should be the community page.
Now I want to focus on a - unfortunately new - Hive community problem:
You are a while on hive already, have your topics you are posting about and you have got some followers already. You are ’proud’ and you want to have your own blog (of course!).
You find a post you have done that could be interesting for a community. Now the guys from peakd have had a great idea: Cross posting. You can post your blog-post to a community. Great! But they can’t upvote it any more! Well, they can, but the upvote will not support the author but probably just burned. So you like to upvote somebodies post and the system says ’thank you, but no - I throw it away’. That’s frustrating. Frustrating for both, curators and the author.
Burning the rewards is helping the non-posting whales most. Any cross post is better than no post and a post always should be rewarded for this reason.
Posts without payouts in the communities do not attract newbies!
Don't worry about double upvotes for a post done more than 7 days ago. Your followers are usually not in your community. And if so, they probably know that they have upvoted your post in your blog already. And if not, I bet, they won't care.
Cross posts have at least two features:
- Attract community members to you blog
- Reactivate posts that are older than 7 days but should be posted to a community now
And we need community posts - even those, that has been posted to blogs before.
But unfortunately upvotes for cross-posts are not possible. I guess the reason is that you could get rewarded more than once for the same content and you could create new posts really fast and trick the system e.g. by upvoting yourself.
Hey - it doesn’t matter! If you want to do many shit posts and spread them to upvote yourself, or get upvoted by a bot, you can do so anyway. Maybe you will get a second SBI upvote on your post and that’s ok - you won’t get the upvote value later. But with declining payouts for cross-posts the best feature peakd has developed for Hive is gone!
In my eyes it would be better to treat a cross-post like a normal post with a special reward distribution we had (some reward goes to the community account, some to the cross-poster, most to the author).
Conclusion
(Investigate a solution for the keys-problem for new users. Later and more experienced they can switch to handle their keys by themself.)
Let’s create a system-inherent reward pool for all new users like defined above. Maybe it can be done in connection with the HIVE Stake Based Income project (SBI). SBI units for delegation could be used to upvote the ’newbie group’. Let’s try to figure out how many HP would be necessary.
Allow payouts for a cross post of a former blog post. We need the communities - we need many more posts to communities - even those that has been blog posts before.
Make the community page our Hive-landing-page. Show the communities to attract new users by regularly upvoted community posts when they arrive the first time.
Thanks for reading and discussing it.
@retinox
Join to put a dent in the universe.
Further information
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- CO2Fund's White Paper
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- Number of COCO hold in CO2Fund's wallet (visible if you are logged in)
- Nomination of CO2 compensation projects
- Step by step guide how to compensate
- ‼️ Incentive Program for member acquisition. Get your reward!
It is too hard to get on hive and get started. I'm almost 50. It was a real struggle to get here. This is not the case on Youtube or Amazon. You don't have to go to "peakA" to get on Amazon or even login. You just type in Amazon.com and away you go. Then, if you want to buy something, you have a lot of options for payment. It's easy. It must be just as easy to get on hive, and see content and buy the crypto. If it doesn't get way easier the hive is toast.
Yes - I can believe that. And you need to understand the concept of having an own blog which needs to attract users. I can imagine that the several-keys-issue (which is really good in fact) will be more easy to handle in the future. As you can read above @jarvie/PeakD is working at that issue. In fact it's easy - different 'passwords' for different actions - but for many most 'non-tech-people' it's a challenge to handle different passwords for different website-logins.
In addition it's difficult to start without having 'your friends' (like on fb) already here. So I think it would be good to push newbies into one or more community first. I guess that can help and it might be easier to get some first encouraging upvotes (to get a positive feeling and to tell others) than make users to follow their own blog.
Buying cryptos is another issue. It won't be easier to exchange FIAT currencies to cryptos in the future. New users on Hive don't think of buying cryptos/HIVE at the beginning - the want to earn some out of nothing. That's why they get a delegation of 15 HP aa a start (I guess that's still the way). I think that's already a good and easy start.
It might be good to offer a graphics (if you have less than let's say 50 HP) that shows what the user still can so with the left 'power' (x posts/comments (let them know that each post edit is a new post), y upvotes,...).
Key management - This is actually what i'm trying trying to focus on to help users. I think it's never gonna be as easy as passwords on other sites... but I think there are a few things PeakD.com can do to make it seem easier and quickly educate. We'll be adding a couple small things soon.
INCENTIVE - Let me push back on this a bit. Why does a new user that doesn't get anyone to VIEW their content deserve any reward? I understand where you're coming from and perhaps it would be nice for them to get the dopamine of a reward for posting. However a creator's job is also to MARKET and bring people to their content not simply to make content and expect others to bring people to their content.
In fact why is it that we have very very few users on Hive that market their content and actively work to bring people to their content? Is the culture of the system a little off track perhaps? Granted there are a few people that actively work to get people to see their content by linking to places outside of hive... but it's the exception not the norm.
Maybe the reward should be for rewarding them for actions that benefit themselves. If you repost your content somewhere else we'll tip you (or vote you) if you share it on twitter or fb or reddit and you get 10 outside views we'll reward you... those are the types of actions I'd like to support and help reinforce. Because they're much healthier than simply creating content that no one will see because no one has done any actions to make them seen.
Somehow we need more influential creators here... by influence I mean a person who creates content that people are eager to read and even comment on. They don't just have people that click the follow button... but they have active readers that they can dependably expect to read and interact with. Those are the type of people that are successful elsewhere.
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I'll be shorter on my cross-post discussion for now. But i will say the hope for cross-posts was to bring conversation about a post to another community. It wasn't meant for votes it was meant for discussion and improving the experience of the community... not the experience of the creator of the post. The community.
I see it often on reddit in the baseball communities i'm in. Let's say a post is shared in the r/baseball community perhaps a big new rule change. There's a ton of discussion there... but the r/padres (team) community is active with tens of thousands of active users... We want to have a discussion about that same post as well and our conversation will be about how it applies to our community theme which is r/padres. One post two different conversations.
Sometimes it's as simple as hey did you see this post from r/baseball this information is a benefit to us over here in our community.
Really has not much to do with rewards. Though peakd did allow rewards for a while because it helped in the sorting that happens with the algorithms known as trending and hot. But decided that it wasn't worth the abuse just for the small benefits of sorting.... because they weren't really being sorted by those algorithms very well anyway.
Thank you @jarvie for your inputs. And thank you very much for your tip - it's the first I've got 🙂
Wow, you have a lot of fantastic ideas here.
I've been trying to onboard some new users and left about 12 new people.
the topic of keys come up they always say what's that, lol. but I don't feel is necessary one the biggest hurdles. I think it is the learning process of coming into the system and understanding what everything means.
I do like the idea of providing a minimum base vote value for low reputation score accounts that are new. granted, I can see how people can game that system, I think it would be a nice welcoming into what the community is. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to stay longer.
As for the good content.
Perhaps there is a way that an elected community official can flag content as "colorful and fun?" that would be the landing page for any new member coming to hive... Or something like that, or perhaps just a bunch of different tutorials for them to start reading, one of the tutorials could be how to make friends and learn about community.
But all in all solid post, I really like where your mind is!
Could be Welcome Community every new account has subscribed automatically at the beginning.
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