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This is a value for value post: see the explanation in the footer.
The Future of the Hive Lightning Bridge and VSC
It's hard to believe but I've been running this bridge since April 2022. I just published a look back at the last year's numbers here. I wrote the code for this system in the months before then and whilst I've had to code some updates and fix a very small number of issues, the code has been remarkably resilient.
However, when I've gone back into the code over the last few weeks, I can see that it is a horrible mess compared to how I would design it if starting from scratch.
My first thoughts on this were here but this carries on and develops my thinking on the future a bit further.
My Coding History
I learned to write computer programs when I was 11 with a Sinclair ZX81. I was pretty much doing this until the end of my PhD in 1997 but following that I largely stopped. I wrote a few Excel macros in the intervening years but it wasn't until we wanted to do a type of technical analysis which nobody had done for the Crypto Class Action lawsuit by @apshamilton and @jpbliberty, then I started learning Python.
I did the work for the court case, then wound up inventing @podping and helping get the first version of the software for that written. That was a huge learning curve.
V4V.app
What has become @v4vapp grew out of another part of Podcasting 2.0 and came from me wanting to allow @threespeak creators to receive micropayments of sats via Lightning, the system developed for Podcasting 2.0.
That works today but I will admit I haven't promoted it very hard.
The Bridge
What grew out of that was the bridge in it's current form which links the Lightning network to Hive. The Lightning Network is Bitcoin's pseudo-layer 2 scaling solution. It has lots of problems, but it has also seen significant investment from VCs. And in some cases the problems stem from that significant investment.
Lightning Is
Nevertheless there are many useful on and off ramps for small amounts via Lightning and by connecting Hive with Lightning the @v4vapp bridge enables Hive holders to use all these services.
Recently Binance has also allowed withdrawals and deposits via the Lightning network. This is really important now that BTC transactions fees have sky rocketed. For example, you can withdraw up to 0.02 BTC (2,000,000 sats) via Lightning and the fee is 0.000001 BTC which is only 100 sats. The main chain withdrawal fee for BTC is 0.00033 which is 33,000 sats! A huge cost difference.
Only via Sending Value
The way my system is set up, the part which receives and sends Hive or BTC via Lightning is totally self contained. It has no direct internet link except via the Hive blockchain or via Lightning payments.
In order for the system to be told to send a Lightning BTC amount, it has to be contacted by sending Hive or HBD. The other way around, in order for it to send out Hive or HBD, it first gets a message to do so in the form of receiving BTC via Lightning.
There are ways in which this can go wrong, but on the whole its been very reliable and only a few times in almost 2 years, have I had to fix something or force a manual refund after a failure.
@v4vapp as an exchange
However I never wanted to be running a small exchange and my goal is not to be doing that.
I had always hoped to decentralise and give away the software I'm using so others can run bridges.
Decentralising is Hard
When I look at the code base and the systems I have in place to run @v4vapp I can see a lot of work before I could open it up to anyone to run. That is without even considering the learning curve of running and managing a Lightning node which is not trivial.
I was set to embark on this task, along with a re-write of the entire back end when @vaultec and @vsc.network came around.
The Future Without Being an Exchange
What @vsc.network means for me is that I can see the exchange of Hive/HBD into and out of sats to be taken out of my hands. This value exchange will be able to happen on a DEX built around @vsc.network.
The role of the Bridge will be to take in Sats and give you Sats wrapped on Hive or take in wrapped Sats on Hive and send Lightning to an external Lightning wallet or service.
The actual conversion of Hive/HBD to Sats and back will happen outside of what I run.
Re-write
And now that I see this, I know that I won't begin re-writing my code until we have a clearer vision of how I will be able to interact with sats wrapped on Hive via @vsc.network.
The key point here will be that while I will be able to accept in and send out Lightning by the infrastructure I already run, I will be able to give and receive sats wrapped on Hive instead of Hive and HBD. If users WISH to convert from sats to Hive/HBD that will be possible but I won't have to do it on my side.
Simplification
This will dramatically simplify both the code I run and the management of the system. The Lightning side will still need to be managed, but I'm confident I can help others learn how to do that.
I will also feel much better about building the next version of the bridge as open source right from the start.
Future Funding
This is going to be a significant re-write. I'm not sure how significant yet as there is still more I need to know and see about @vsc.network but I'm preparing the ground here now.
I was funded to produce the original @v4vapp bridge and that really did allow me to put almost a full time effort into it. I've been funded, on and off to keep it running but at a long way below full time.
In order to re-write and get this to a point where Hive has an almost unique ability to leverage Bitcoin's only widely adopted scaling technology, Lightning, is going to take a lot of work.
I know that @vsc.network is funded, @blocktrades and the core devs have agreed to significant changes to the core of Hive to support @vaultec's plans too. This is excellent. I hope that when VSC is closer to being finished, I will have a clearer view of exactly how much effort will be needed to move the Lightning Hive bridge on to a more robust and decentralised footing.
Thanks
And as always, I'm hugely grateful for the help so far, and open to any and all suggestions and comments.
Value for Value
For the last few months while building @v4vapp I was generously supported by the DHF. Going forward I have a much more modest support which covers direct server costs and a little of my time.
If you appreciate the work I do on and around Hive, you can express this directly: upvoting posts on Hive is great. Also consider a direct donation (there's a Tip button on Hive or a Lightning Address) on all my posts.
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This has happened to me so many times with potential business ventures. I never wanted to run a business course, I just wanted to give others a start and let them go along the merry path.
The story of V4V and what you have made available for many others is quite an encouraging story and really shows others how a project can succeed on Web3/Blockchain.
Thank you for creating V4V, sharing your story, and good luck with the improvements ahead!
I like the direction its going.
Wow
I’ve got some satoshis in my Lightning account so I can send it to Binance to confirm
Thank you for sharing with us
Yeah, depositing Lightning on Binance is free and instant.
It is the missing piece to give us true sovereignty. My biggest thanks and support for this project. I hope in the not-too-distant future to contribute from within.
I think the VSC part and native sats on Hive is going to be a massive change.
I so much believe that this year, there will really be a massive improvement in the vsc network this year and thank you for the great work you are also doing over there
I've seen a lot of word spreading on X about VSC Network and I'm there to help spread it :)
You are really doing a great job and you are a gift to the blockchain
I am hopeful that this app is going to revolutionize the hive blockchain by many aspects, keep it up the good work mate.
!WOC
Well done on Woc, @brianoflondon! kairke(7/8) is appreciative of the time and attention you've devoted to writing this post. Your efforts are truly valued.
In fact, @kairke has gifted you 0.3 WGOLD! You can find it in your Hive Engine wallet! We hope you enjoy it to the fullest!
BTW! WGOLD is the token of the War of Clans ecosystem, you can use it to have discounts in all our games or stake it and earn rewards now!
Shoutout to you Brian, great to have you around.
What's the traffic like lately and are there still problems with channel stability?
Actual usage of the bridge is steadily increasing. My Lightning channels are pretty solid and I have enough liquidity mostly in the right places.
Alby have recently changed how they run their node which has caused some changes in routing patterns I see, but I'm still good.
Binance's Lightning withdrawal of up to 1,999,900 sats at a time (with a 100 sat fee) is a god send, because when I send that to my node, it always arrives on any one of a number of about 4 good channels I have which then has no trouble sending sats out when needed.
This kind of micro managing is the stuff very few people I think have ever done and I can tell that Binance even has trouble figuring out how to run this. When they started they allowed much bigger withdrawals and I think I even got a 4m sat one done, but they've set the limit now at 2m which is pretty sensible I think.
Interesting, living on X made me think the Bitcoin Laser Eyes are losing control over LN due to exploding fee requirements for rebalancing purposes.
I expect V4V is used to send out smaller amounts of Sats outwards, combined with occasionally larger amounts inwards?
V4V.app is handling a wide range of uses I think. I can see it is being used with services like Bitrefil probably to get Amazon vouchers or VISA cards and silent.link for eSims. I also see stuff going to destinations I have no idea about. There have been a few uses to exchange more significant sums into Hive but that's kept down by my limits.
I also think there is quite a bit of local use going on in South America where it is possible to pay for some goods and services with Lightning.
Yep, in my family we have used V4Vapp and Bitrefill. We have paid phone bills, bought pizza, bought a gift card and it was was very easy. Thank you Brian for having the vision, skills, and foresight to build what we didn't know we needed before we needed it.
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There is something like 10c$ friction of every transaction right?
I can imagine that it makes sense to use HDB -> LN for daily payments. But rather cash out some HBD into LN on a mobile wallet and use that with NFC or Bluetooth (BLE) for the transactions at the payment terminals.
https://silent.link, instant eSim, freaky
A lot of praise for Binance :))
With CZ still 'locked down', I'm worried about some of their services.
As much shit as they've had from the US, I find their service including customer service to be top notch. I had a failed lightning withdrawal that got stuck for a week (I didn't even notice for a while till I couldn't understand why I had 2m sats I couldn't withdraw). Their chat system was excellent and got it fixed in a day or so.
They're obviously new to Lightning and they're still treating Lightning invoices a bit like Bitcoin addresses, but they'll figure it out. For example they seem to think I might want to send to the same lightning invoice twice when that is absolutely impossible.
Hmm, interesting interesting.
I thought Binance is routing through Dubai and would probably have very good IT personal. It never stops to amaze me, how much attraction power the US has towards businesses.
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I myself have been following you for a long time and this project is going very well, you have worked hard on it, now people can easily transfer their stuff into some of these bricks. So we will see that this project will be more popular all over the world in the near future.
#hive #posh
Hi, seems like my transaction is stuck
https://hivehub.dev/tx/831cb8553c24c9fdd259b02661b6d30a22ce4dfe
Hey, sorry, that failed and it was my telegram notification system which failed so I didn't even see that it had started.
I reprocessed and you have a refund, sorry for that, normally I see failures, but not if the failure is in the system which tells me about the failures!
Np thx
Looking into it now.
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