No. Anti abuse work does not add any new value. If we need to do a tonne of anti abuse, then that's a sign of a broken system and we should instead fund work to analyze the flaws and prepare new somutions
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And that's a fair point.
If the operations need to be large, there's something fundamentally wrong with the set up, as well the type of persons carrying out curation.
Quite a bold claim you make there as to anti-abuse not adding new value.
Upvotes are incentivized via curation rewards and often result in social benefit or quid pro quo even (aka circlejerk)
Where is the individual benefit for those willing to contend with the stigma of downvotes, the foregoing of social benefit which is generally the result of negative curation, and often the retaliation?
I must heartily disagree with your position that there is no value in antiabuse projects.
There is value in the coordination.
There is value in the camaraderie.
There is value in the defense of vindictive retaliation as a group.
There is value in teamwork.
These things and more were what SFR was about and more. Surely, you were stating things in a general sense but did not mean to insinuate my work did not add new value?
I just want to be clear I understand as I do recollect you using our service when it was a thing.
It's no more of a bold claim than saying that cleaning your house does not raise its value. That is, of course, not to say that cleaning isn't useful or necessary, but it does not add new value. It's rather a form of maintenance work, which is fine. But I would like to ask "how much time/resources should be needed to fight abuse to the point where it is no longer a significant problem?
Or in other words: How much maintenance work should a good system require?
If the required maintenance cost for a building exceeds a certain level, then at one point continuing to pay maintenance is a poor decision, and one should instead invest in a new building.
I feel the same way about Hive, and one of my main frustrations over the years with Hive/Steem is just how much time and effort is poured into activities that do nothing to grow the place. I would rather see abuse fighters do a proposal that has a structured approach to documenting flaws and articulating clear problem statements that needs to be addressed. Rather than endlessly putting bandaids on a decease that needs to be dealt with on a much deeper level.
I hope you at least see that I didn't mean to say that there's no benefit, short term, to the work that people like you are doing. But I would rather see us work hard to make it less necessary than it currently is.
Thanks, @fredrikaa.
I can def relate on the band-aid analogy as I believe many issues we had contended against are systemic in nature.
One particular point that had bothered me when doing the clean-up is the inconsistent nature in which standards would be applied in a system in which essentially "might makes right".
I do not have any fingers and toes to count the number of times we would have downvoted Bernie for instance but he made it expressly clear retaliation would occur had we.
For this and other reasons, I had conceived in my mind the only real solution is to design a new system. Not to suggest this system does not work.. It just doesn't in an optimal sense which is, of course, my opinion.
Do I think I can design a better system conceptually? Yes.
Do I know how to build that system technically? No.
As an ops guy, I have to essentially stumble my way through anything pertaining to front end design.
If anything, I am more of an idea guy than anything. Maybe one day I will be a part of a team savvy on the implementation side.
Anyways, as far as HIVE goes, I did imagine how things would have been with an OP downvote incentivization solution like SFR.
I still think with the right persons at the wheel such a thing would prove beneficial in moving the system just a bit closer to being a more uopian cooperative collective which I believe is something HIVE has a closer semblance of than anything else out there.
Anyways, I talk a lot about our kind building (that is those that hold dear the values of fairness in distribution) a new vision that sometimes I myself become weary of hearing it. I rather hope to instead build it than talk about it. Perhaps, I will find my second wind in life and make it happen.
Nevertheless, I have think the downvote program that we had running on Steem could be an asset to HIVE. It's much more of a low hanging fruit than any other lofty ambition I had in mind. Sorry for sort of rambling. Appreciate the reply