!pizza
Sorry I’m often late to reply. When I get these kind of comments where I feel something important is being said I wanna give them the time they deserve, and I kinda miss you dude.
I honestly stuck at Hive because I met a variety of people, even if more of the HP seems to be leaning a bit towards like what you described. I think by sticking around and keeping friends around maybe I can help even it out.
there that are quite white and western whilst masquerading as alternative or free thinking
For sure. I try to say “western” because I think there are enough white people who are aware of the fact that western values basically dominate the conversation always (even among the “woke” crowd), and there are people of all races who are guilty of dismissing anything that doesn’t fit a typical western narrative. I’m with you.
Im actually happy I am in a place with people like that through, as long as I don’t need to be surrounded by it constantly, because I was rejecting the positive influence of western values because of all the suffering I see that is caused by the culture that preach them. There is good created by them too, it’s just really imbalanced and we aren’t encouraged to step outside of “isms” and connect as humans so things change slowly and sometimes too violently.
I think the best we can do it just vibe with whoever we can in whatever way we can and focus on the icky stuff when it comes to our own process and what we can learn from it.
I’m trying to practice acceptance of the things I really don’t like, but I’m not adopting or supporting those things at all, instead, with acceptance, I try to learn how to maneuver and how to diffuse.
This brings up something I wanna make a full post on.
Yesterday I had a bit of a Kerfuffle on discord cause this dude kept putting down Asian culture. I teased him instead of arguing and eventually I got that I had said something negative about America and it kind of triggered him though his language was trolling and so he was being obnoxious instead of seeing that I had a lot of negative experiences that I connect with American culture.
I mean he could have asked me “why do you feel that way” and helped me realize that I said something a little unfair that triggered him, but if I can’t do that 24/7, how can I expect him to? So I’m working on trying not to throw my own biases around so easily, maybe I can find a vibe point with people I thought I could never get along with. We don’t need to become friends but at least we won’t be enemies.
❤️
This really resonates with me. I actually played around on another crypto social media for a few weeks as an experiment before realising it's really, really not for me. I ended up in a very long back and forth with a girl whose privilege, to me, was so obvious. She really couldn't understand the experience of others, as her experience as a privileged white woman meant she wasn't affected by any of the things that affected the people she was so against. What made it worse for me personally was that she was talking about gender, and that to her, there were only two genders, which she seemed to get confused with biological sex. For her, there was only male/female, and at a stretch, gay/straight, and she was so busy rejecting the labels in some utopian ideal that labels are unnecessary. True, but the fact is, labels do define people's lives, as does culture - powerful influences that are hard to rise above, as I suggested. She was very anti people out and proud, and defining their own gender to identify with that conflicted the binary cultural constructions that we all know - well, I thought most of us knew - existed. For her, that should be behind closed doors - why does she need to know about it, she argued? She certainly didn't want to associate or learn from or even interact with anyone who were 'social activists', speaking the term like it was an intensely dirty phrase.
Anyway, all this is irrelevant, as you might well agree with her - I was more than horrified that she couldn't empathise with anyone's experiences - for example, pansexual, who she just said was 'bi', and that they mustn't be happy with their partner so were fishing around and keeping options open, or something of the like, which was so far from the actual truth of someone I know who identifies as pan/non binary that it was just bizarre to have someone reject their experience and define them through her own narrow lens.
Again, I'm going off track - I'm actually super rattled and you're the first person I feel I can chat to about it.
So every time I start to write a comment I'm like, fucking check your privilege you privileged self centred middle class white girl twat, and go do some study on sexuality and queer politics before you spout off such crap you know nothing about, and how about you actually consider what other people might have experienced apart from your middle class friends, and every single time, I delete the words and respond as reasonably as I can, trying to recognise where she was coming from but at the same time unable to back down, because some of the things she was saying were just so factually wrong I couldn't let it slide. I'm certainly trying my very best (and I succeeded) trying not to utterly troll her and call her out for being a dick. And I think that's the people I find the hardest to talk to - the ones that don't back down from what's factually incorrect when the information is readily available, refuse to empathise and understand other people's experience, and refuse to think about how their own lens of experience isn't other people's experience. You kinda think other people might be a little like you but many people aren't!
Funny thing is, I tried my best to find the vibe points - there were things I agreed with of course, like unity and oneness is only possible when labels disappear, but for the most part, I was gobsmacked behind the screen! It's an exercise in restraint and non violent communication to not troll or let it rip. I could have walked away but in all good ethics I couldn't let what was being said go without being contest (for context, the original article was quite anti 'these people' influencing children eg LGBTQI, and the OP blithely commented on my reference to that as 'perversion' - eek). So when you say:
that's what I try to put into practice all the time, which can be super hard when you're just raging against the ignorance and lack of empathy in the world! But accept what you can't change, right? And in the end, maneuver and diffuse is a good tactic - but I certainly think I'll be maneuvering right out of any chance of having to read these people's posts again lol!
They say we have more in common with people than we think, even if we're at opposite ends of political spectrums or don't speak the same language, but in this case, I'm not sure that's true! Some people's values I just can't vibe with.
Ah, what one needs is a sense of humour, a whole lot of compassion, and an ability to see when one's words are coming from emotional reactions, and try to be with that sensation instead of acting on it. A constant practice of mindfulness.
I kinda feel I used this comment as an opportunity to rant and get what happened off my chest so I apologise for that - but I think it's a good example of how the west can see things through their lens and expect everyone to go along with it with little sympathy for how real people might live. Sure, free our minds and throw off the shackles of imposed narratives, but you also have to live in the world as well with it's real struggles and navigate those too.
Thanks for replying in such detail - I miss you too. I hope even half of this comment made sense.
I will read the comment more carefully later, I’m in between classes now, but I thought I could drop a quick note cause the beginning already stirred up a bunch of interesting thoughts:
The non-binary paradigm is a narrative just like the binary one, and it also comes from the west (with a few isolated exceptions, I’ve heard of one or two tribes). The way people use the word privilege now is also part of a narrative that I am no longer a part of.
Still, both point to real issues, but then they have become concepts which are easily weaponized, both by angry individuals (I empathize) and by larger more sinister forces. I have trans friends and it’s a little weird to me, and I love the fact that the two or three trans people I’ve connected with are graceful enough to let me be a little weirded out and confused. We try to understand each other.
I kind of feel that we are best served by hearing all perspectives. I try my best not to call a culture backwards just because there is a general idea that men and women have different roles. I only reject the rigidity that doesn’t allow for a group of people with different values to peacefully coexist. That goes for the “left” and “right” , “conservative” and “liberal”.
All that being said, I am 99% sure I’d feel the same way as you with the person you are talking about.
Sorry if this isn’t perfectly replying to your comment it was a lot and in the first paragraph or two I already had this much to say hahaha
Anyways we should catch up soon and I’ll check your posts to see what you’ve been up to.