After 41 days, I was wondering how Americans are feeling about the lockdowns. Of course, it is going to depend on the American, right? As perhaps the average person doesn't see that much disruption, but there are apparently over 40 million people who rely on food credits to make ends meet. There are also thousands of flights being cancelled across the country. and almost a million furloughed government workers.
Anyone here affected?
Almost 17B in government costs so far and counting, which is more than 3x as many as the next longest, which was 35 days back six years ago, when Trump was in government again. That is quite the bill.
The Big Beautiful Bill?
It might be that because I am not American, I don't understand what is going on in regards to why it is even a possibility for a government to shutdown like this, but I suspect that a lot of Americans don't really understand it either. And those that do understand, think that it is normal. Normalcy is an interesting concept in a global environment, because what is normal in one place is abnormal in another due to exposure. Which points to how conditioned we are in regards to what our cultural habits become. It seems that Americans have decided that this dysfunction in governance is acceptable, perhaps even necessary.
Is it necessary?
At least through the talks I have with people from around the world, much of what happens in the US is considered "only in America" kind of stuff. At least, from the developed world. And often the topics and arguments seem pretty infantile and often contradictory. For instance, many of the same people who are fighting for the freedom of their speech, believe they have the right to control other people's bodies and how they use them, and who they use it with. Isn't that strange?
Perhaps people should define what freedom means first.
Freedom
noun
the condition or right of being able or allowed to do, say, think, etc. whatever you want to, without being controlled or limited.
Not sure if the definition for freedom should include "being allowed to..." since that sets up conditions, so isn't really freedom. However, freedom also doesn't mean without consequence. For every movement there is a reaction of some kind, so "being free to say what one wants" doesn't mean that others are going to accept what is said, or not respond to what is said with their own freedom.
Am I free?
Well, given my available resources, I can act as I choose, but there are consequences to my actions. Technically free as a human constrained by the universe, but also restricted due to human laws, which are completely made up. Are human laws really that important considering they can change quite significantly over time? Or are they only important in the moment when there are people willing to abide by them?
If no one abides by the rules?
It would be an interesting thought experiment to think through what might happen if everyone just stopped some aspect of the law currently followed. For instance, what if everyone stopped abiding by the current tax laws of their country, but instead used another set? For example, what if corporations and people decided that there would be a flat tax system at 20% and just changed all their processes to suit. The government would still get the 20% transferred to them from salaries and goods and services etc, but that was it. All the red tape and bureaucracy forked out. Sure, I get it isn't quite this simple, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if everyone just decided to follow a different governance model.
Governments are highly inefficient decision makers, which is likely a good thing because so many of their decisions are also ineffective and often pretty poor. However, what we should be looking for are ways to make good decisions that are able to be approved and implemented quickly, with minimal fuss and argument. And once implemented, it applies to all, like the rules of a blockchain. Rules can change still, but the next iteration is again made and implemented efficiently, and again applies to all.
We should be simplifying governance.
Instead, what the governments are doing is making it more complicated, which creates ambiguity, conflicts, and a lot of loopholes. Code isn't law in the current system, because the code is so very poor, that there are ways around having to apply it. And those who don't have to adhere to it, tend to be the people who are also able to make the laws themselves. Everyone else is controlled, with no chance of breaking free.
The government lockdowns in the US should make everyone take a step back, look at the situation, and then realise that it is a ridiculous and unnecessary pile of complication that should be replaced by something far more robust and suitable for human empowerment. Governance laws should be implemented to improve our lives, not restrict our freedom to act. This doesn't mean a free-for-all society, but rather one that is flexible enough to shift for all kinds of people and their behaviours, without breaking under the burden of its own complication, and the asshats that control it for their own agenda.
There is no such thing as perfect.
But there is better.
Taraz
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That is a SNAP program, while there was a lot of talk in the media that starting on November 1st states will stop those payments, it really never happened as a judge ruled that Trump administration must continue to fund it. So people are still getting the so called "food stamps"
I agree with Bozz below that this whole government shutdown is just a bunch of political posturing (on both sides btw). I guess that is how they like to negotiate these days...
Flights are supposed to be cut 10%, but economy in the last year gotten pretty bad and airports are empty compared to just a year or two ago, people are not flying so that doesn't seem like it would have a major impact, but I do feel for the Federal workers, they are already severely underpaid and this must really hurt...
Supposedly they went back on this and will only give a portion of it? That is what I read somewhere yesterday.
Oh for sure. But the posturing is at the expense of the people. It is a pretty pathetic negotiation when using the people they are meant to serve as cannon fodder.
Interesting about the airports and flights, because according to the government, the economy is booming.
That same government that is not releasing any official stats and possibly even using this shutdown as an excuse to hide bad data from the public?
That'd be the one! :D
It's all about power. I am not impacted by it yet, but if it continues I might be. I don't see it going that long though. Right now this is all a power play and political posturing. It's tedious. We need some viable third party candidates.
I don't think third party is viable in America, it was proven many times in the past...
At some point, it will be viable. At one point, there was no alternative to monarchies.
Or "no party" candidates. Get rid of the entire system and replace it with a DAO :)
Yeah, that would be interesting!
I was looking up flights to Boston and they are the cheapest they have ever been. 200 euro one way . Thats a great price . Apparently nobody is visiting under the current administration. That is bound to hit in the economic figures down the line.
I think it is more for the internal flyers, but unsure. The problem with going to the US at the moment, is getting through customs :) Oh, you are white, you'll be fine ;D
(I am making assumptions)
Aight then, I'll holla at you later
My man.
as I see it.. Trump is just greedy and doing things in whatever way will put even more dollars into HIS pocket. He cares not for anybody else. (maybe his own fam?)
I get food stamps and didn't for some days, but was lucky that I get it first so when the supreme court ordered the funds to be released, I got it. but then trump appealed it and got things stopped again. :(
my cousin had her flight cancelled because of things, but she caught a later flight. so, things are kinda bad, but we live on. but i don't think its right to push things this far..
Probably not even them much.
Yeah, this is what I heard. Have you been heavily affected yet?
The news from the government is that everything is really good, the best it has ever been. Yet, you seem to tell a different story.
Nah, I am ok cuz thankfully i live with my aunt who provides all i need. i feel sorry for those ppl that do really need the help though.. :(
Yeah, 40 million people is over 10% of the population on food stamps. Isn't that crazy?
We've spoken about this before, but a flat tax benefits the wealthy and places far more burden on the poor. You've said before that your reasoning is that the wealthy are using loopholes to pay 0%, so 20% is much better than 0%, but I really do think it's much better to close the loopholes and actually enforce tax law rather than scrapping it all and starting over. In the US the main problem is enforcement - people aren't paying what they're supposed to.
The biggest problem to me, is that the extremely wealthy aren't high income earners, so income tax doesn't really even touch those people, the US will have to get serious about taxing inheritance, ban using wealth as collateral for loans, etc (a big reason why a flat tax benefits the wealthy). If you don't properly tax the very wealthy, they then have undue influence on elections, which spirals into the chaos of Elon spending $277M to get Trump elected - that's way too much power.
Just using it as an example in this case, though I do think that it would be better. It would still requiring enforcement and loophole closing, and all that shit about transferring to other countries through high-interest loans to dodge taxes etc would have to be shutdown. Oh look - there is a good shutdown!
Income comes in many forms. All investments should be flat taxed too, right? Working should be far more lucrative than passive earning.
If that is all it took, it is incredibly cheap and the system is incredibly broken. Oh, hang on.
Absolutely agree that working should be far more lucrative than passive earning.
Hahaha, Elon isn't the only reason Trump won, but the fact that he has more influence than someone whose family has lived in America for generations but currently lives in a mobile home is not good at all... but yes, the system is incredibly, incredibly broken - which wouldn't be such a bummer if the US didn't also affect every other country on the planet.
It doesn't necessarily mean it is bad. Money alone shouldn't be the only indicator, but I don't think everyone should have an equal influence in the world, especially currently. Some people should have far less influence than they do, some a bit more. But just imagine if someone living in a trailer had the same influence over your health choices as your doctor.
Exactly. I think the RoW should be doing it all it can to break ties. Yet instead, they are doubling-down in a hope to keep a single market alive, instead of building a diverse and robust group of markets where many more people could benefit.
I'm not at all suggesting that everyone should have equal influence in the world. That is a bananas idea that goes against the whole idea of education, expertise and qualifications.
The idea of a democracy is that everyone (of voting age) gets an equal say in which experts are granted administrative power to improve the lives of those voters.
Gerrymandering, Voter ID Laws, Campaign Finance Laws all diminish that equal say, including obviously billionaires contributing massive finances to sway voters towards policy that benefits them over the voters themselves. I think it is bad. I'd much prefer that corporate and individual donors were not allowed and campaign finances were tax payer funded.
You obviously have been in the US a while, so how do you see it in comparison to AUS, where voting is mandatory? In my opinion, it should be mandatory, otherwise it is far easier to swing votes one way or another.
FYI, I'm back in Aus now. I didn't want my tax dollars funding Trump's ICE and I couldn't trust that he wouldn't blow up my work visa overnight.
I agree that it should be mandatory and I think it would change everything in the US.
With voluntary voting, politicians have to appeal to the highly motivated loud minorities because they're the ones that show up. With mandatory voting, politicians appeal to the centrist majority.
The US also needs a non-partisan (and non-corruptible) Electoral Commission like Australia's AEC to properly referee elections. Republicans often shut down voting booths in areas that would vote against them, so richer people spend 5 minutes voting but poorer people might have to stay in line 8,9 maybe 14 hours to vote, on a workday.
The US has an extremely religious component that is a really strong voter block that holds a lot of power, I think mandatory voting would dramatically reduce that power.
The government never has enough money for each new budget. The Republicans like to talk about reducing the government, but it's just talk. The Democrats always want to expand, and they push.
We also have the problem where the appropriations are always a big combined bill with pork galore, not individual bills for specific purposes. This fuels waste, abuse, and conflict.
Meanwhile, the people are struggling under tax burdens and the consequences of fiscal policy driving inflation. Both parties want to play blame games, appeal to their respective bases, and push their agendas. It didn't work out.
Of course, I see this all as usurped power, and the longer it stays shut down, the better. The pain points signal where government has too much power, as do the departments that did not shut down during the "shutdown." SNAP and air traffic control are also clearly about political theater to show now much control they have and need to maintain in their unnatural centralized monopoly of power.
Neither side is good in any way. Sure, some might have some okay ideas at times and some individuals might even try to do good, but the system isn't built for good outcomes. It is always going to be oppressive, through all kinds of control mechanisms.
It is funny how few actually understand that a government (no matter which party or who is in power at any given time), is a governance monopoly that can't be broken. Well, it can be broken, but who is willing? Most don't even realise it is possible to fork the government out of power, just by everyone behaving differently.
I think a many people who use the term 'freedom' use it very loosely and that's why it there seems to be so much division among political and religious angles. Like you said, freedom of action doesn't mean freedom from consequence...more people need to remember that
A lot of terms are very loose now. Not that long ago, male and female was pretty concrete.
I’m not American, but I still find it strange how a whole government can shut down the system while people are left to struggle. Although most of this isn't directly the government's fault, or maybe im not getting the right approach to it. However, it feels unfair that ordinary citizens suffer the most while leaders keep playing politics. I also agree with what you said about freedom. Many people fight for their own rights but forget to respect others’. To me, true freedom is when we live in a system that values fairness and humanity, not power and control. Honestly, I think the world needs simpler and more honest governance, one that actually serves the people instead of confusing them. The way government all over the world behaves is extreme considering different laws and policies being emulated every now and then. I don't know much about the developed nation, but I can certainly borrow some leave from the developing nation like ours.
It is entirely the government system's fault.
What is it like in Nigeria? I have the assumption that the government is quite corrupt. I have a Nigerian friend (weirdly a white guy) whose dad worked in the oil industry. A lot of corruption there....
Yes, corruption and nepotism are the order of the day here. Even getting a reasonable job is by connection.
Well freedom from the view of the law isn't the complete, total one. Because granting complete, total freedom to everyone in the society will simply engender uncontrollable chaos. That would mean government officials would be free to embezzle, criminals free to loot, rape and kill...with this you begin to get the sense that any freedom granted by the law is always in part, because there are a lot of things we want freedom to do that would simply hurt others.
The only problem is that the apparatus of state that make these laws, make it in the first place for their benefit, and continually twist it for their self-interests. Otherwise lawfulness is one of the pillars necessary for growth and development in the society.
For sure. But it would be short-lived chaos, before control is exerted on people again. The strong would rule.
Remember that every government, no matter who is in, is a monopoly organisation. It all needs to be decentralised.
Not fully aware of whats happening but from my little research their is a shutdown cos it’s because Congress, the Senate, and the White House cannot agree on the funding bills but i guess in its own way it means that democracy is kinda working in the U.S. I'm not from the U.S so i wouldnt know completely.
Essentially my question is that genrally Is the problem the structure of government itself, or the people who run it?
I think both, because the structure also kind of dictates who runs it. It is a system that isn't likely to change itself.
It is intetesting to see how different people view the lockdowns and their effects on everyday life. I think we require a system that empower people instead of making our lives more complicated.
Poorer people suffer the most, because they have the least in reserve.
Koreans like to gamble.