We Talk Friday
(WTF)
This is a semi-regular series that I will run on Fridays to hold discussions on a current topic from the week gone. The aim is to keep them light and conversational, though some might be heavier - regardless of the content topic itself though, just have some fun engaging and discussing with whoever happens to put in the effort in the comments section below.
We Talk Friday Ep. 28: Blood on Hands
Bit of a strange one tonight before I go to bed and I suspect people might have differing opinions on the topic, or perhaps they have conflicting opinions themselves.
What is your opinion on the US "drug smuggler" executions at sea?
The US is manoeuvring an aircraft carrier off the cost of Venezuela currently, but for the last few weeks has been targeting boats in the Caribbean Sea and then in the Pacific yesterday. I am not sure how they know they are smugglers, but if they are, do you think they deserve to be blown up at sea? Or should they be arrested? Are anyone on those boats potentially innocent, or forced?
There seems to be a lot of ambiguity around this.
It all seems to be without due process kind of activity. Isn't there some kind of international law to stop random bombings of targets in international waters? It all seems very strange that there isn't much fuss being kicked up about it globally. Is it some kind of war crime? After all, Trump has announced it as a war, so that means the rules of engagement apply, right?
What do you think?
As there are quite a few people here on Hive from Venezuela, what is the general opinion about what is going on with the US now. Is there any fear? Joy?
Personally, while I reckon illegal drug trafficking leads to all kinds of problems, so too does legal drug trafficking. I also think that while it is fine to arrest people breaking the law, blowing them up in international waters with minimal proof and zero trial, should be condemned, because it is not the actions of good people in any way. It is the antithesis of civilised society.
A race to the bottom.
Taraz
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Blowing up boats at sea is not justice, it is reckless and dangerous. Even if the U.S. calls it a war on smuggling, international law and UN conventions (right to fair trial still matter; you cannot just bypass due process or human rights by declaring a unilateral “war.” Rules of engagement and humanitarian law exist for a reason, to prevent abuse and protect innocent lives. Instead of random strikes, the U.S. could easily work with Venezuela through intelligence-sharing and coordinated operations, like how Pakistan’s ship Yarmouk recently seized $1 billion worth of drugs through joint efforts of US, Saudi, Pakistan. Cooperation wins wars not blind aggression.
Plus, given the harsh relationship between Venezuela’s dictator and the self-oriented Trump, it seems more like a personal power game than a principled fight against smuggling. Moreover, it is kinda funny that Maria Corino, a Venezuelan, has bagged the Nobel Peace Prize (she wants ballot over bullets, so it is the Constitution which matters) — while Trump wanted it so badly.
And this is what it all comes down to, right? It has nothing to do with drugs in the US, or anywhere else. It is just more personal and political games.
They wanted it for Gaza - but the prizes were announced before there was even a ceasefire in Gaza. And that "ceasefire" is not exactly holding too true at the moment. Is there peace there? I don't think so.
It may sound wrong but I am all for this action even if it sounds extreme. If they have the intelligence then surely this is guaranteeing those drugs and those trafficking are removed permanently. I have seen photos of the zombie like drug addicts and the carnage this is causing on US soil so I think they have the right to protect their people by whatever means necessary. The dug cartels must be using other routes to transport their drugs and this cannot be just it. The CIA previously was mixed up with the cartels so the Navy doing the shooting is a far better option I guess. I do not think this is harsh, but more of a necessity in todays world.
But what kind of intelligence do they have? When they were deporting "criminals" out of the US, they were also deporting people who had no criminal record. And that is within the US. How good is their intel?
I'd say, there was department overlap :)
This is unfortunately one of the negative actions by the current administration. This is not going to stop drugs going into USA, but it makes for useful news material for Fox News and such...
Yep. It is just another political game to appease 30% of the nation.
Tough question to answer.
I believe most of us agree criminals should be punished, the problem to me, arrises when any country decides to apply law without following international rules. To me the question is not if they should kill criminals, the question or questions should be:
1.- Can any country decide how they apply law in international territory?
2.- How do they know they are criminals? are they giving any evidence they are?
3.- What happens if they make a mistake and kill innocent people?
3.- Is this stopping anything at all? or just propaganda for the American administration?
4.- How do we know this images/videos are real and not fake if all we see are a few images and nothing else?
It is easy not to agree with all this behaviour if they are criminals, but even if they are, they should be treated as any other criminal, specially not being in US territory. Imagine you are on your private boat on vacation and by an error you and your family gets killed thinking you are a drug dealer.
This last one is one of the questions I have for sure. How much is being fed to the media is just AI.
If it is a war, perhaps the Hague should get involved.
Absolutely no question that blowing anyone up for any reason is fucking savage. You gotta ask where the problem stems from in the first place. It's beyond the imagination of most people aka governments to do that. Remember everyone condemning the Philippines guy for shooting strays and drug users and dealers in the streets?
I do! And all that condemnation... and now look, all the support.
It is savage.
Laws of economics. Supply and demand. When there is a demand, no matter what it is, someone will supply for a price. The supply of drugs isn't the issue, it is all the demand in the US - but no one seems to want to deal with this. Perhaps rather than blowing up suppliers, they should walk through the streets in an emu parade, killing drug addicts.
First of all, I think that all activities related to drugs, whether legal or illegal, should be completely prohibited and brought under the law. Because drugs help destroy a society and a country. Therefore, they should be brought under the law and punished and the drug trade should be stopped. I once saw such an incident. Then I was going to a training center 600 kilometers away from my home by bus and the bus I was traveling in was suddenly stopped by the police. Later, some passengers were checked and drugs were recovered from them. Then I was surprised how the police detected it and came to know about it. Anyway, the second thing is that crossing international waters is a complete crime in my opinion, although no one cares about it internationally, especially those big whales who are slowly swallowing such small water countries. But starting from the international court, the international circles are acting like blind people.
The problem is when the law are the drug runners. The US government systematically funded and ran drugs for decades.
I think we should see this issue as that of the first person to fight back between the USA or the drug traffickers.
If they get arrested and charged, it doesn’t guarantee a change and when they eventually get out of prison, they will do the same thing. I may be wrong but I feel, people barely change…
Therefore, before the drug traffickers get into America with the aim of ruining the country, America has now decided to ruin them first.
Let’s think about it. What if they were not bombed? What if they get charged and after their release, won’t they still go back to what they left and find more ways to ruin America
Well, no one deserves to be killed with bomb. No one deserves to die such painful death…
Where is the proof they are drug smugglers? I haven't seen any yet.
Well, destroying ships without solid proof or proper investigations doesn't fix anything, it just continues a loop of violence and fear.
And I think that this is part of the true goal. It keeps their game going.
Same thing happens to pirates. They get blown to pieces without trial. An enemy combatant has different rules than run of the mill criminal.
When it comes to identifying who to bomb, I'm sure there are protocols. Without knowing those protocols myself, I could think of how I would do it.
Here's a ship traffic tracker for the Caribbean. With so much legitimate traffic, I expect that the Navy is rather careful about who they destroy rather than go about it randomly.
https://www.marinevesseltraffic.com/CARIBBEAN-SEA/ship-traffic-tracker
Sure. So the US is acting much like a third world country, right?
These are assumptions, as are your list. There might be no such attempts. And, if it came down to it, there is nothing to stop them just capturing the same boat. As said, it is uncivilised.
But the thing is, people want to see "the other side" punished, in what ever form that takes. That is not the way I think. The "other side" is a stupid position.
You're not wrong. It's possible there might be no attempts to capture the enemy before blasting them to pieces.
However, I think this is unlikely. Military, at least US military, are given rules of engagement for combat, such as "do not fire unless x, y, and z conditions are present". Failure to follow the rules is punishable. Furthermore, the Navy is tech heavy. Their combat situations produce a ton of data through video, radar logs, communications recordings, intelligence, and such. With their decisions and actions on the record, it's reasonable to expect they'll follow the rules of engagement. They tend to be very disciplined, and cold, when it comes to destroying a target.
In my opinion, it's a much bigger assumption to think these are bunch of gun toting yahoos meting out vigilante justice.
I do not justify the United States bombings just because illegal drug trafficking takes place internationally at sea. Even if a trafficker is a trafficker, killings cannot be condoned because everyone is human. Sometimes a boat may have been hijacked by traffickers. There may even be innocent hostages on board, so bombings should be condemned. Arresting traffickers and bringing them to justice is a sustainable solution. Strict legal action should be taken against such individuals.
I wonder what the cost of those missiles are.
I suppose this hits very hard. I could only imagine the thin line between fighting druggs and just blowing up a boat without proof. I agree, just blowing people at the sea is somehow unjustified. Although some might be forced into it, or there might be some innocent fishermen inside the boat.
Yes, I agree, and that does not warrant to such an action, although Trump, the talk about the war is also the most scariest.
It seems like rules do not apply here.
Anything goes. So from what I have read, Venezuela must be in chaos.
This is a very messy situation.
Instead of missiles, we need arrests.
This attack feels like a power flex. The US are trying to show themselves. This is not just more of anti-drug work. There is something to this and we have not seen any evidence yet. Although the Venezuelan voices are the calling of fear of escalation. But there's been some express
of joy at pressure on Maduro's crew.
Personally I feel arrest and trial should
be adopted at any time instead of
blasting the whole ship. This is a very serious situation and the US did not carry the right approach for this problem. They would have done something more better or something more understandable although they deed had already been done.
I love the way you called out the no due process vibe. This should be a global outcry.
So because Trump is trying to frame this as a war, this is causing them to dodge the required rules and process of handling situations like this. This action was not taken legally, I must say, especially in what happened. What if there were innocent people there? And so many other things you need to take into consideration before blowing up the boat.
There is no joy here. Just the fear of being more repressed. For me, I condemn the blast 100 percent, at least arrest would be better.
Thanks!