HAF NFTs cannot be traded for Hive/HBD tokens.
Eventually the HAF NFTs application will get upgraded to support a marketplace. For now, we'll be running our own marketplace, which will be built from the past experiences I've got in building NFT Marketplaces on Hive(NFTMart :) ). It was the cheaper way to get started until we can fund the development of HAF NFT Marketplace, either ourself, or by paying someone else to do so.
This proposal seems to have been made because of scarcity of resources, which is understandable.
What I dont understand is, if thats the case why are you creating more work, more development scope, more expenditure for Acid by building all this yourself.
That seems to be in absolute opposition to the actual goals of the proposal. Shouldnt you be saving money?
"Wer strapped for cash but we also want to build all this stuff that doesnt exist without which our game cant function, while other solutions exist."
I know Devs want long term work, but in my opinion, as a long term supporter of Holozing, in my best interest and in @acidyo best interest would be this money going the furthest distance possible.
Rishi building all this additional stuff isnt money going the furthest.
Just to make it clear, the HAF NFT work was not made by rishi, we kind of got connected to the dev a few months ago and thought we needed a solution then and there compared to where we were at the time. Things got delayed further, the idea that we could pay for that work ourselves became impossible, etc. We thought alpha opening would be done months ago and excitement and funding would rush back in to help with our outstanding costs, but alas hive continued to dip and we continued to get delayed.
I'm not really in favor of people building several of the same things just for the sake of having them and spending resources as we've seen with many other things on here, this was kind of just badly planned I suppose, which wouldn't be the first time from my side.
Yeah. This is exactly the discussion I have with @vaultec. Hive desperately needs strategic alignment on developer spending. A non technical founder will not always be able to understand the proposed scope by the dev so the dev needs to provide concrete and researched feedback.
We are across the board using DHF to pay for development of stuff thats already been developed, or developing stuff thats not needed, some open source stuff isnt even used.
The efficiency per HBD spent drops significantly.
Dev thinking seems to be inward: "what could I develop that I need instead of trying to find what exists so I wouldnt need to develop new stuff."
Time saving, money saving.
The funds go the furthest distance that way.
I don't think there were any ill intentions by the devs either, probably just bad communication/lack of knowledge of how far vsc has gotten or something.
Wouldn't it be possible to build bridges to vsc?
For sure. No dev on Hive has ill intention but we fall into a trap where wer double spending (no pun intended. :D).
Well sure, thats kind of the point 😅, you have to build all this new stuff, which means allocating part of this funding you will get here to things you can essentially do without that could have been spent on the actual game.
I'd checked with vaultec a little while before we'd gone down the HAF NFTs pipeline and there still was no NFTs on VSC. I was told we had the option to build it ourself. I didn't have the time to put towards that, and when we learned we had someone with haf experience available for work, I thought it was a good use of funds to build out something we desperately needed as Hive-Engine was having constant issues.
But deploying a NFT on VSC would take 1/1000 the time it will take to build adjacent infrastructure you need. Thats a massive undertaking.
Not to even talk about functionality of wallet interoperability Magi has that HAF doesnt.
Deploying a smart contract on Magi took an hour to do for our devs. I dont even know how many hundreds of hours it will take to actually build HAF adjacent infra.
Cost & Time. I have previous experience building the marketplaces and so I can get it up fairly quickly and for a lot less than implementing it onto HAF itself. It's going to be under a day's worth of work to make the backend for the marketplace, a lot cheaper & quicker than getting it onto the HAF application, and leading us towards a direction to be able to fund other aspects later.
So your NFTs are on HAF, your liquidity pools on HE, your NFT trading happening offchain through your built marketplace.
If I got that right. I dont know... seems like an odd approach.
How are you sending Zing from and back between HAF and HE for trades?
It is a very odd approach. Our initial design had everything on Hive-Engine, but with the recent stability issues, I'd rather not continue to build on top of there. We'll need bridges eventually, but we are taking this 1 step at a time.
... or... hear me out 😅... or, you avoid doing all that and not create trouble for yourselves in the long run.
When we started looking into HAF for this, it was because VSC didn't have anything built on it. The message I got was that I could build it myself. We had development resources available with HAF experience so we went that way.
I learned that NFTs exist on VSC 2 days ago. I still don't know much on them and need to see if they would work the way we'd want them to. Do tokens exit on VSC? It's going to be more research before I can say "yeah this will work, let's use this" and that's not possible in 2 days of time where I've been busy with work 😀.
@vaultec would be better to respond to this here than me.
Yes. See https://docs.vsc.eco/how-to/create-a-token/
Absolutely. However, given that you are a project asking for money from the DHF I'd generally expect there is thorough spec research in any given technology. Considering that it seams spec research was not done regarding NFT market capability for HAF, this poses concern for Hive investors (including myself)
Okay I understand that. My next question is what is the long term strategy? I understand that you can put together something "eventually" (which might be a long time in the future). With that in mind, how does this plan incorporate lite accounts (EVM, Solana, etc), access the broader crypto market or any number of critical components required to be competitive?
I am approaching this from the perspective as a Hive investor. I could care less about what is done on your project privately. However, when a project asks the community for funds I need to see a clear concrete plan that is conducive towards enabling growth and revenue generation for the Hive blockchain.
I'd invite you and your team onto my next Hive community town hall in around 2 weeks from now to pitch and discuss your project in detail.
I'm going to leave this to @acidyo as that's more of his department.
What time is the town hall? I'll see if I can fit it in, but can't promise anything without a good time commitment.
Likely 8am PST on a Saturday
Bit rough as that's travel time for Thanksgiving. When's the next one?