I think it is a problem when an individual seeks to impose his own preferences on an entire system. Let's take your example, someone who sees a moral superiority in the fact that holding is better than selling. How happy would he be if all, really all, so-called market participants saw it the same way? No one would sell. Everyone would agree exactly with their views. Everyone would be of the same opinion.
So that can't be what is meant, can it? That everyone really does behave homogeneously. What is meant instead? The individual who possibly and wrongly assumes that unity across the board would bring him something is of course mistaken. What he may mean is that he wants to imagine himself in a society that resembles him. Like-minded people. There is nothing wrong with that. Like-minded people are everywhere if you look for them. Sometimes it is more difficult to find them because they are a narrow band. In fact, a market is a "real" market when there is diversity among the participants. These differences are what make a market lively and interesting.
If one imagines that everyone in the square sells only and exclusively peaches, that would be very frustrating for anyone who wants to make an interesting morning of it.
All participants are therefore necessary for something to be called a market at all because of their diversity in presentation, size, motivation. The bored and unambitious as well as the eager and profit-seeking. The cautious as well as the easy-going. Those who are bad salesmen may be good storytellers. He who is a miserable entertainer may be good at knowing his way around the market. The moral apostles are therefore just as necessary as the egoists, because all these personalities reveal the charm of the game. Where these differences no longer exist, a market like this is dead.
The question is first of all, how do I recognise that I am dealing with a lively market that emphasises differences? If I can't see it with my own eyes? Where does this market begin and where does it end? The answer, which has been given countless times here, is the number of participants: the more, the better. One automatically and unconsciously assumes that many participants equals diversity. One is probably right about that. But maybe not. Even a huge market can be deadly boring and homogeneous. For me, it becomes particularly homogeneous and boring when the talk in the marketplace only revolves around the market, when all the sellers of goods, as if hypnotised, only talk about how to manage the thing as big and profitably as possible, but not a soul is interested in the goods on offer.
It seems to me that the hive scene is like that, where even when the stalls are being built, people are constantly talking about how they could build even more stalls, but forget about the market visitors. Those who just happen to pass by, who just want to enjoy or have a chat here and there. Strangely enough, the entrance is closed to them. Passers-by who don't have an entrance ticket. They are made to climb over hurdles, they have to go through complicated rituals before they can even address a word to the market stall owner. It's a strange market :)
Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts, @erh.germany! I fear you may have come away with a false impression, and it may have gotten lost in translation. Although I do like the MEMEING (meaning of a meme) of HODLE and DIAMOND HANDS, I do not think we should thrust these notions on others by calling them LEECHERS when they choose to sell. I think we ought to let the market do the market things all by its lonesome. It has served us well enough this far. The problem is that people have gotten trained to only look at its faults, and this is why I had to throw in so many videos—to try and push that paradigm back into place, where it ought to be. Once people develop a healthy respect and appreciation for the market, they can sit back, relax, and stop fucking things up. ;-)
Thanks for responding. I am not very direct in my comment and often I ad further thoughts to a topic. You may be also right that some things got lost in translation. That is always possible.
My intention was to support your view and to say that a market needs all diversity it can get. But there are leechers there, if you ask me. One cannot avoid them. But they make it obvious that sucking it all out is not a good idea. Leading through bad example, one can call it :) LOL
I am guilty of not having watched the many videos you threw in. Let's see if I will spare the time doing so.
That's the spirit! Of course, the more they pay, it means the more they print, and the more they print, the more we owe. And that gets combined with the hidden tax that comes along with inflation. If you haven't seen this yet, I highly recommend it!
Very true, we need to become independent of their fiat toilet paper an build some real world crypto connections.
That animation is spot this is exactly how I have seen it for a long time and the government that allow it are the worst kind because they have knowingly presided over it.
I'm picturing it right now. LOL
Watching twenty market stall owners arguing among themselves about how best to find as many buyers as possible, while I walk past them as a passer-by and they ignore me, not even bothering to lay out their wares for me to sniff, sometimes picking up one, sometimes the other. Their goods are probably not for sale, I would think. They don't even present real products, there are only cardboard dummies on their shelves. If I were to approach one now and ask "How can I join in?", presumably they would pounce on me and reward me with attention. They would give me instructions on how to make the cardboard dummies as pretty and colourful as possible. Then they would tell me to get as many interested people as possible from outside the market to buy the fake articles. Buying for the sake of buying, selling for the sake of selling. Virtual products from virtual stalls.
If you care to elaborate, I'm all ears! I am both pro-hodling and selling. I think people should do as they please. Let the market do the market things. Sheeeite, the only way we can break the market is by trying to fix it via contrived notions.
Really fascinating way of looking at it and like the style. I guess the only thing is missed was doesn't holding drive up price by reducing available supply isn't that why people want the majority to be diamond hands (until they sell of course)
"Really fascinating way of looking at it and like the style. I guess the only thing is missed was doesn't holding drive up price by reducing available supply isn't that why people want the majority to be diamond hands (until they sell of course)"
Thanks for the compliment! I think you nailed it right there, @failingforwards, it's a bit of an ouroboros, and that's what proves the so-called virtue is a lie. I'd much rather see radical and sporadic market bounces from speculators than this creepy culty mentality where people get gaslit into hodling their blood diamonds because it brings them an egoic pleasure from doing the so-called "right thing." Only we, as individuals, know what's right for our circumstances.
And this is what makes the market go round and round. It's billions and billions of subjective market decisions that create a consensus of what a price ought to be. If HIVE can get out of its way, it can stop artificially suppressing demand. A lot of the leet activity here is tantamount to an unwelcomed cold shower because it causes people to seek better alternatives.
I am half-convinced that this is an educational problem (people don't know how markets work), and in part, the Dunning–Kruger effect (people overestimate their ability to outsmart the market). The market is wiser than all of us, "it" is proof-of-brain, "it" is the wisdom of the crowd. When we let "it" do "its" thing, HIVEs merit can stand on "its" own two feet.
All we have to do is stop being millennials and get out of the way. Sorry if I generation shamed you. I don't think that all millennials are retarded. I just think the ones that attended college are slightly stunted but are 100% capable of rehabilitation. P.S., that wasn't meant to imply that you are a millennial, some of my best friends are millennials, but fortunately for them, they didn't attend college.
If you're not in the U.S., most of this millennial talk may not apply. As I said, the problem may be a geographical one. The various nation-States served as separate testbeds. The conditioning didn't get implemented uniformly or equally. And this got carried out intentionally so they could contrast and compare the datasets.
Meh, reality is overrated. I like watching it do the crappie flop on the dock endlessly. It's been hours or rather years of entertainment. I mean, surely we can't let it back in the water, that'd be kind of fishy.
You know what, I have half the notion that Ned and Dan are Eris's bastard children, and she used them unbeknownst to them to guide little ole me and various others to the ultimate truth that goes well beyond the pale of the hodgepodge and into divine gridhopping. The Goddess, although she tends to be a bitch at times, truly works in mysterious ways. Rumor has it that every time Eris gives one of us a good mindfucking right in the head hole, the Goddess pops out another bastard child. And it's up to all her bastard children to create enough profound mischief so she can continue to spread her seed of illumination.
You might not need Eris in your life right now, but she needs you, @lucylin. You might be the prophesied Juan that brings forth the Juan. You don't know anyone by the name of Juan, do you? Or how about; The first letter of either their first or last name starts with J. Who am I kidding. You totally-prequalify. Juan or nojuan, come juan and come all. You're the next member of; You can take that heavy bag of fucks you've been carrying around all this time and check them right at the door. No shirt, no shoes, no problem. Welcome to the Hotel California! You can always feel free to check out, but we'll never let you cancel your account!
I wrote a post the other day about growing not mowing. I guess if you were to look at it in one light I was probably looking down on people who power down and sell. That would be the wrong lens to look at it through. My point was (especially with Hive), you are doing yourself a huge disservice if you are not growing your account and adding to your stake. That is what is going to give you the greater capacity for passive income down the road. The diamond hands comments do get a bit tiresome after a time. I can agree with that!
Hey, thanks for your feedback, @bozz! You are most certainly correct in that growing your account and adding to your stake can give you greater capacity for passive earning down the road. However, if a stakeholder sells their stake to the market, it means they've successfully found a buyer, and now that buyer has taken from them their greater capacity to earn. If, on the other hand, we are insecure, and we don't treat people well when it comes to their autonomy to make market decisions as they see fit, they might find us rather odd, and it could cause them to leave.
And that's why I say if you want to buy HIVE, enjoy it, and check out the platform! There's something here for everybody. And if you'd like to sell your HIVE, there is no harm or foul in that either. Hopefully, it will work out better for the next guy. We should look at everyone like they are fellow stakeholders, and if we want them to feel comfortable here, we shouldn't be too nosey or judgemental about whether they choose to buy or sell.
Sellers are not extracting any value from the blockchain, but rather, they are offering new buying opportunities so people can get the token. And if they executed a successful sale, that means both parties are happy! In the markets, it's always a win! We literally cannot lose, but we can win even more if we don't disenchant fellow stakeholders by scolding them for selling or by downvoting content that showcases intelligence and effort. Thanks again for your feedback @bozz, it was great to get your ideas on this topic!
I think that kind of speaks to the current debate about the powerdown period. There are definitely pluses and minuses on both sides. If you are looking at it purely from a market point of view decreasing the period certainly makes sense. Those other ancillary factors are what seem to hang things up though and thus fosters much of the debate I think.
I've heard many negative comments about Venezuelans and how they only extract value from the Hive blockchain. This is said because they probably withdraw and power down more than other nationalities.
A quick study of history shows that "It is today, it will be you tomorrow." as H.I.M Haile Selassie I so wisely stated. The same folks criticizing those who power down HIVE could very quickly find the tables turned. Life has a strange way of throwing curveballs when you least expect it.
Yeah, people need to understand it's the market that gives the token value. Any value extracted is coming from the market, not the platform. They'll figure it out eventually. Venezuelans aren't extracting value from the HIVE blockchain. They're extracting value from people in the marketplace that see merit in the platform, and each time this is done, it signals the market that our token and platform is alive and vibrant. However, we have got to make those new investors feel welcomed when they get here. If we treat new investors like you say people speak about Venezuelans, that won't make people feel welcome, nor will it make them feel good about their investment.
Something like that would, in turn, send negative signals to the market about the quality of our product. We are all the customers, and we'd do well to treat people with care and respect. And you're right; The worm is turning, and the entire globe is staring down the barrel of what might be a terrible form of poverty similar to what Venezuela is enduring. Pay no mind to the idiots, and you do what you have to for yourself. That is how the market builds from the ground up. Myriads of people making subjective and self-interested life and business decisions. So long as there's a buyer to buy and a seller to sell, the market is happy, and anyone not part of that trade ought to mind their business.
another great examle of how herd mentality can become really oppressing.
the way i see it, the more people trade hive the better the market structure becomes. which is great for the traders who know what they are doing and bad for those who don't. we really do need more volume overall.
sometimes i feel this shaming of people who sell part of their stake is due to the inability of most others to be able to do it themselves. successfully.
who in ther right mind wouldn't want to turn hive into more hive?
i also feel i read many times how hive has been sold for fiat around the world by some and has helped those people out tremendously. is that shaming still such a thing today? i hear rather little about it these days...
I think it is a problem when an individual seeks to impose his own preferences on an entire system. Let's take your example, someone who sees a moral superiority in the fact that holding is better than selling. How happy would he be if all, really all, so-called market participants saw it the same way? No one would sell. Everyone would agree exactly with their views. Everyone would be of the same opinion.
So that can't be what is meant, can it? That everyone really does behave homogeneously. What is meant instead? The individual who possibly and wrongly assumes that unity across the board would bring him something is of course mistaken. What he may mean is that he wants to imagine himself in a society that resembles him. Like-minded people. There is nothing wrong with that. Like-minded people are everywhere if you look for them. Sometimes it is more difficult to find them because they are a narrow band. In fact, a market is a "real" market when there is diversity among the participants. These differences are what make a market lively and interesting.
If one imagines that everyone in the square sells only and exclusively peaches, that would be very frustrating for anyone who wants to make an interesting morning of it.
All participants are therefore necessary for something to be called a market at all because of their diversity in presentation, size, motivation. The bored and unambitious as well as the eager and profit-seeking. The cautious as well as the easy-going. Those who are bad salesmen may be good storytellers. He who is a miserable entertainer may be good at knowing his way around the market. The moral apostles are therefore just as necessary as the egoists, because all these personalities reveal the charm of the game. Where these differences no longer exist, a market like this is dead.
The question is first of all, how do I recognise that I am dealing with a lively market that emphasises differences? If I can't see it with my own eyes? Where does this market begin and where does it end? The answer, which has been given countless times here, is the number of participants: the more, the better. One automatically and unconsciously assumes that many participants equals diversity. One is probably right about that. But maybe not. Even a huge market can be deadly boring and homogeneous. For me, it becomes particularly homogeneous and boring when the talk in the marketplace only revolves around the market, when all the sellers of goods, as if hypnotised, only talk about how to manage the thing as big and profitably as possible, but not a soul is interested in the goods on offer.
It seems to me that the hive scene is like that, where even when the stalls are being built, people are constantly talking about how they could build even more stalls, but forget about the market visitors. Those who just happen to pass by, who just want to enjoy or have a chat here and there. Strangely enough, the entrance is closed to them. Passers-by who don't have an entrance ticket. They are made to climb over hurdles, they have to go through complicated rituals before they can even address a word to the market stall owner. It's a strange market :)
Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts, @erh.germany! I fear you may have come away with a false impression, and it may have gotten lost in translation. Although I do like the
MEMEING(meaning of a meme) ofHODLEandDIAMOND HANDS,I do not think we should thrust these notions on others by calling themLEECHERSwhen they choose to sell. I think we ought to let the market do the market things all by its lonesome. It has served us well enough this far. The problem is that people have gotten trained to only look at its faults, and this is why I had to throw in so many videos—to try and push that paradigm back into place, where it ought to be. Once people develop a healthy respect and appreciation for the market, they can sit back, relax, and stop fucking things up. ;-)Thanks for responding. I am not very direct in my comment and often I ad further thoughts to a topic. You may be also right that some things got lost in translation. That is always possible.
My intention was to support your view and to say that a market needs all diversity it can get. But there are leechers there, if you ask me. One cannot avoid them. But they make it obvious that sucking it all out is not a good idea. Leading through bad example, one can call it :) LOL
I am guilty of not having watched the many videos you threw in. Let's see if I will spare the time doing so.
Sincere greetings to you!
Alrgiht, Good on you! And good on all of the peoples! -//😄// 🙏 //-
The elites and banking cartel are banking on the FUD or FOMO to create panic sellers, by HODLing we force them to pay more Lol
That's the spirit! Of course, the more they pay, it means the more they print, and the more they print, the more we owe. And that gets combined with the hidden tax that comes along with inflation. If you haven't seen this yet, I highly recommend it!
Very true, we need to become independent of their fiat toilet paper an build some real world crypto connections.
That animation is spot this is exactly how I have seen it for a long time and the government that allow it are the worst kind because they have knowingly presided over it.
I'm picturing it right now. LOL
Watching twenty market stall owners arguing among themselves about how best to find as many buyers as possible, while I walk past them as a passer-by and they ignore me, not even bothering to lay out their wares for me to sniff, sometimes picking up one, sometimes the other. Their goods are probably not for sale, I would think. They don't even present real products, there are only cardboard dummies on their shelves. If I were to approach one now and ask "How can I join in?", presumably they would pounce on me and reward me with attention. They would give me instructions on how to make the cardboard dummies as pretty and colourful as possible. Then they would tell me to get as many interested people as possible from outside the market to buy the fake articles. Buying for the sake of buying, selling for the sake of selling. Virtual products from virtual stalls.
You get the idea ;-))
I love your analogy, it's hilarious!
:))
HIVE!D
I Did what i could...
Where i Was...
With the Hands i Had...
NOW They're Diamonds 🙏😎🥓👍
Thank you, Sir!
🙏💎👐
Hodltards are the real leeches...
If you care to elaborate, I'm all ears! I am both pro-hodling and selling. I think people should do as they please. Let the market do the market things. Sheeeite, the only way we can break the market is by trying to fix it via contrived notions.
Really fascinating way of looking at it and like the style. I guess the only thing is missed was doesn't holding drive up price by reducing available supply isn't that why people want the majority to be diamond hands (until they sell of course)
"Really fascinating way of looking at it and like the style. I guess the only thing is missed was doesn't holding drive up price by reducing available supply isn't that why people want the majority to be diamond hands (until they sell of course)"Thanks for the compliment! I think you nailed it right there, @failingforwards, it's a bit of an ouroboros, and that's what proves the so-called virtue is a lie. I'd much rather see radical and sporadic market bounces from speculators than this creepy culty mentality where people get gaslit into hodling their blood diamonds because it brings them an egoic pleasure from doing the so-called
"right thing."Only we, as individuals, know what's right for our circumstances.And this is what makes the market go round and round. It's billions and billions of subjective market decisions that create a consensus of what a price ought to be. If HIVE can get out of its way, it can stop artificially suppressing demand. A lot of the leet activity here is tantamount to an unwelcomed cold shower because it causes people to seek better alternatives.
I am half-convinced that this is an educational problem (people don't know how markets work), and in part, the Dunning–Kruger effect (people overestimate their ability to outsmart the market). The market is wiser than all of us, "it" is proof-of-brain, "it" is the wisdom of the crowd. When we let "it" do "its" thing, HIVEs merit can stand on "its" own two feet.
All we have to do is stop being millennials and get out of the way. Sorry if I generation shamed you. I don't think that all millennials are retarded. I just think the ones that attended college are slightly stunted but are 100% capable of rehabilitation.
P.S.,that wasn't meant to imply that you are a millennial, some of my best friends are millennials, but fortunately for them, they didn't attend college.If you're not in the U.S., most of this millennial talk may not apply. As I said, the problem may be a geographical one. The various nation-States served as separate testbeds. The conditioning didn't get implemented uniformly or equally. And this got carried out intentionally so they could contrast and compare the datasets.
that turns reality on its fucking head now, doesn't it?
Welcome to Hive....I fail to find any other environment so detached from reality..
Meh, reality is overrated. I like watching it do the crappie flop on the dock endlessly. It's been hours or rather years of entertainment. I mean, surely we can't let it back in the water, that'd be kind of fishy.
You know what, I have half the notion that Ned and Dan are Eris's bastard children, and she used them unbeknownst to them to guide little ole me and various others to the ultimate truth that goes well beyond the pale of the hodgepodge and into divine gridhopping. The Goddess, although she tends to be a bitch at times, truly works in mysterious ways. Rumor has it that every time Eris gives one of us a good mindfucking right in the head hole, the Goddess pops out another bastard child. And it's up to all her bastard children to create enough profound mischief so she can continue to spread her seed of illumination.
You might not need Eris in your life right now, but she needs you, @lucylin. You might be the prophesied Juan that brings forth the Juan. You don't know anyone by the name of Juan, do you? Or how about; The first letter of either their first or last name starts with J. Who am I kidding. You totally-prequalify. Juan or nojuan, come juan and come all. You're the next member of; You can take that heavy bag of fucks you've been carrying around all this time and check them right at the door. No shirt, no shoes, no problem. Welcome to the Hotel California! You can always feel free to check out, but we'll never let you cancel your account!
Eris was a very good student of mine !
You might not be able to cancel your account, but you can...darn it, I can't tell you that part .....not on here...
I wrote a post the other day about growing not mowing. I guess if you were to look at it in one light I was probably looking down on people who power down and sell. That would be the wrong lens to look at it through. My point was (especially with Hive), you are doing yourself a huge disservice if you are not growing your account and adding to your stake. That is what is going to give you the greater capacity for passive income down the road. The diamond hands comments do get a bit tiresome after a time. I can agree with that!
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Hey, thanks for your feedback, @bozz! You are most certainly correct in that growing your account and adding to your stake can give you greater capacity for passive earning down the road. However, if a stakeholder sells their stake to the market, it means they've successfully found a buyer, and now that buyer has taken from them their greater capacity to earn. If, on the other hand, we are insecure, and we don't treat people well when it comes to their autonomy to make market decisions as they see fit, they might find us rather odd, and it could cause them to leave.
And that's why I say if you want to buy HIVE, enjoy it, and check out the platform! There's something here for everybody. And if you'd like to sell your HIVE, there is no harm or foul in that either. Hopefully, it will work out better for the next guy. We should look at everyone like they are fellow stakeholders, and if we want them to feel comfortable here, we shouldn't be too nosey or judgemental about whether they choose to buy or sell.
Sellers are not extracting any value from the blockchain, but rather, they are offering new buying opportunities so people can get the token. And if they executed a successful sale, that means both parties are happy! In the markets, it's always a win! We literally cannot lose, but we can win even more if we don't disenchant fellow stakeholders by scolding them for selling or by downvoting content that showcases intelligence and effort. Thanks again for your feedback @bozz, it was great to get your ideas on this topic!
I think that kind of speaks to the current debate about the powerdown period. There are definitely pluses and minuses on both sides. If you are looking at it purely from a market point of view decreasing the period certainly makes sense. Those other ancillary factors are what seem to hang things up though and thus fosters much of the debate I think.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I've heard many negative comments about Venezuelans and how they only extract value from the Hive blockchain. This is said because they probably withdraw and power down more than other nationalities.
A quick study of history shows that "It is today, it will be you tomorrow." as H.I.M Haile Selassie I so wisely stated. The same folks criticizing those who power down HIVE could very quickly find the tables turned. Life has a strange way of throwing curveballs when you least expect it.
Yeah, people need to understand it's the market that gives the token value. Any value extracted is coming from the market, not the platform. They'll figure it out eventually. Venezuelans aren't extracting value from the HIVE blockchain. They're extracting value from people in the marketplace that see merit in the platform, and each time this is done, it signals the market that our token and platform is alive and vibrant. However, we have got to make those new investors feel welcomed when they get here. If we treat new investors like you say people speak about Venezuelans, that won't make people feel welcome, nor will it make them feel good about their investment.
Something like that would, in turn, send negative signals to the market about the quality of our product. We are all the customers, and we'd do well to treat people with care and respect. And you're right; The worm is turning, and the entire globe is staring down the barrel of what might be a terrible form of poverty similar to what Venezuela is enduring. Pay no mind to the idiots, and you do what you have to for yourself. That is how the market builds from the ground up. Myriads of people making subjective and self-interested life and business decisions. So long as there's a buyer to buy and a seller to sell, the market is happy, and anyone not part of that trade ought to mind their business.
another great examle of how herd mentality can become really oppressing.
the way i see it, the more people trade hive the better the market structure becomes. which is great for the traders who know what they are doing and bad for those who don't. we really do need more volume overall.
sometimes i feel this shaming of people who sell part of their stake is due to the inability of most others to be able to do it themselves. successfully.
who in ther right mind wouldn't want to turn hive into more hive?
i also feel i read many times how hive has been sold for fiat around the world by some and has helped those people out tremendously. is that shaming still such a thing today? i hear rather little about it these days...
Well said, actually yeah, see Justin's comment in this post!