This was a VERY interesting conversation to follow @dibblers.dabs, @shadowspub, and @dreemsteem.
No question in my mind... we gotta keep our social offering clean and snappy... This problem is a lot like littering and every culture views littering a little differently.
For example... Canadian's think that they are better because they don't litter. (I'm one of them... I DON'T LITTER and I deplore anyone who does!)
But here's the thing... even with good intentions... It might look like Canadian's are doing much much better with the littering problem... but in reality! Just walk along any highway or outside any high school! What you realize is that Canadian's have wide open natural spaces to hide all that junk they have been discarding for later generations to deal with.
Places like India or China (rural especially) have way more people and less space so the littering looks tremendous! Like whole mounds of the stuff and lots of it wherever you look... But in actually... the human condition hasn't changed. Canadians (I think) litter just as much and maybe more than people from other cultures... It just doesn't look like it so out of sight out of mind right?!
So to get to the point...
This is all about culture. Right now we have few people and wide open spaces... But it won't always be this way. (!) So we need to plan for the spam/litter because next to the dog it has got to be man's/woman's best friend! It's almost hardwired into our human circuitry.
And what we leave behind... Well one day people will dig it up and analyze it's meaning. Probably NOT what you or I would like to be remembered by will be the overwhelming thing noted... unless we engineer intelligent solutions that make use of code rather than human intervention. THAT is what is now possible with blockchain as the central innovation!
An example of leaving behind "litter" can be found on the Great Wall of China. I ran 42KM on that bloody thing! So I know it with every step and by every drip of sweat! 😐
Although the Great Wall of China is ancient in it's origins many people left their mark there for all of us to see and wonder about.
Not only did they leave their bones and blood on (and in) the wall they (and many visitors later) have also left their mark upon the Great Wall in the form of graffiti. This is an ancient, national, and world renown treasure. The analog form of self preservation... a blockchain in it's own right! But even it has "spam" and human litter on it's Great Stones! Preserved there for maybe thousands of years to come!
So how do you reshape how the mind thinks about low value activities like litter/spam... THAT is the question and one worth exploring! NOW is our chance to rethink, evolve, and innovate new and better ways to human into the future!
We can do it... but we have to continue to ask the important questions and discuss them like we are all doing here in Dreems post!
I do know that HOW does make a difference. Nothing is cut and dry and so everything must be openly and freely assessed based on the feedback we are getting system wide. So more than what... HOW has got to be explored!
I think THAT is the value I got by reading down to the bottom of this conversation!
Good job you guys! I applaud you! 👏
I'm laughing so hard here Wil.. where on earth did you think Canadians think they are better because they don't litter? In all years I've never heard that nor would I have believed it.
Hahahaha! I think it’s because I come from B.C. that’s why! There’s this inherent pride in how us West Coasters think about our value and preservation of nature and it’s beauty! But you know what… I really wish more of us Canadians took pride in this. Then there wouldn’t be the amount of garbage addingUP where it is… these values are what I’m passing on to my kids. I really do want them to be better than the average bear in the forest! CleanUP after yourself damn it! 😆
I appreciate the response and the sentiment! I do agree with everyone about spam and plagiarized content being a negative- I just believe that this transition period is important and user experience is vital! We need to be a welcoming place to people moving on chain from traditional social media and Hive has a great many unspoken rules that aren't always transparent to those new users. Due to this we need to work out how best to accommodate those users and be understanding as they make that transition. Otherwise they will give up before they make it!
Not everyone is a writer, and not everyone is as outgoing as others. To some people engaging in these sorts of discussions in the comments or writing a blog post is a massive challenge. To some the idea of writing more than a caption for their painstakingly taken photo is horrifying. There is space on our chain for them as well.
To dig deeper into your great wall analogy- doesn't that ancient graffiti have some value in its own right? "Dibs was here" an important message to be read by an anthropologist a thousand years later. Who's to say Hive Shitposts might not be pointed to as an archaic remnant of a burgeoning new economy? Who are we as individuals to judge what is and isn't worthy of blockchain preservation? The posts are there anyway once made- why should we make a habit of running people off chain instead of getting them to actually contribute?
Ah... that's why I always teach first in the comment section :)
I never have a heavy hand with users that are new. As a matter of fact, there was an "older user" that got into some trouble a few weeks ago. I went to DM to them to help. Sadly WHILE I was in DM with them, their plagiarism was caught and punished accordingly.
(this person is not new, and should have known better. did know better.)
The next week - 3 more plagiarists - older - wiser. but lazy and looking to grab more hive on someone else's work.
I fully agree with you for baby Hivers. Help in the comment section gently - most are REALLY willing to hear (or at least say they are!)
But the problem that I'm seeing more than you might be? (not sure) is not just older bloggers plagiarizing without a care in the world... (until caught) but newbies who ARE gently corrected, and have the nerve to basically tell the people who are helping to "piss off".
I think as Hive's price increases - youre going to see a LOT more people coming out of the woodwork, looking to rape the system. It's sad - but we have seen it on MANY other platforms. It ALWAYS leads to the destruction of the platform unless people stop it.
As far as shitposts... I really don't care about them. I don't upvote them, but they're not going to get downvoted by me. (or - really anyone that I know.) If people are upvoting shit posts - that's their prerogative really. We all have ten 100% upvotes a day. How we choose to support the Hive ecosystem with those votes are up to us.
I don't think they need to be run off the chain, because I don't think shit posts are rewarded much.
Also - photos? there are lots of communities that allow for dropping a photo with very little written content. I'm not seeing them being abused? Are you?
The biggest problem I see on-chain is plagiarism. And I think there should be absolutely 0 tolerance for it. As soon as you catch it - warn, teach, then report if it continues. It's outright theft and no one should be upvoting stolen work.
I agree not everyone is a writer or outgoing. That's okay, there are many activities they can take part in on the chain without burying the actual content creators in crap that has to be waded through to find the contributors.
I prefer to avoid the litter to clean up so content creators can thrive than trying to entice the litter creators to dump their crap here. I'm quite happy with traditional social media dealing with it where they can drop their nonsense for free.
That leaves this media a better space for those who contribute. I've also seen where community standards have general consensus there are those who drop the low quality crap will rise to the challenge because they want to be part of the community. That benefits everyone, especially the person who rises to the challenge and does better.