disinformation. And one of the things that I came to realize when reading the book is that active measures or disinformation in practice, and this is again a term that's not ... I don't know if you just mentioned this, but it's a term that's no longer in use. But this is not really necessarily about creating false information. You had this great interview you did over three hours, I think, with Ladislav Bitman, who was a Czech intelligence officer. He described it as systematic deception. He also described it as sticking a pin into the ass of an elephant or something like that. Again, this idea of systematic deception with either a specific goal or a general objective to impair the enemy by exacerbating existing contradictions within the society. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah, so the early idea that was developed in these operations, and this really dates back a century, but became articulated in these large bureaucracies, as you just pointed out in the 1950s and 60s. (10/43)
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