Debt is a Derivative of Collateral
21 days ago in LeoFinance by edicted (82)
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Someone needs to debate you live in a public forum. Or at least there needs to be a group discussion with you and people on both sides of this debate.
You want high APR going to passive HBD holders taking no risk on themselves and putting that risk onto the community. And you are slowly justifying it with such blogs.
Others want to build a system that allows low base layer APR on HBD so that HP holders are rewarded more adequately, the risk to the base layer is minimised, HBD savers are locked in in exchange for their high APR (which increases the security of the system) and so that HBD bond holders can go take the risk of high APR onto themselves via a Layer II collateralised loan system (similar to what the rest of crytpo is building, and provide an alternative to the currently broken Euro Dollar system, but better as HBD bonds would be the collateral).
Luckily, your argument flies well if Hive is in a bull market. But unfortunately for your argument, its not, and its not going to be until Hive and HBD give reasonable returns to people taking reasonable risk. At the moment it is giving over-weighted rewards for people passively investing and taking almost no risk, while allowing that risk to be saddled by the rest of the community.
Wen debate?
I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat what I actually want before you stop strawman attacking me.
I've said it more than a dozen times; including this post.
The system being proposed increases risk to the base layer by taking away the community's power to make adjustments in real time. The system being posed has a negative EV and thus an overall net value. The system being proposed makes HBD less valuable and makes less users want to hold it. Higher timelocks are not good. They bad.
I'm not convinced you've spent even one hour researching the Eurodollar system other than what Taskmaster has conveyed to you. I have not seen you apply any of this knowledge in any meaningful way with any meaningful insight.
"Someone"? Really? Who?
Who's going to judge or moderate this debate?
What is even the topic of the debate and how is it any different that anything that's already been over-discussed?
HBD is supposed to be spent, not staked for yield.
Base layer risk can be minimised more than it is now. That’s what’s important, and that should be the goal on a continuous basis. Employ alternative systems to get higher APR if u want it, but don’t do this on the base layer.
At this point, ur suggestions that bonds on hive are not necessary, and ‘keep the APR high’ needs to be debated.
Long time locks on HBD make it incredibly valuable. They considerably lower interest rates on collateralised loans. They would probably be the lowest rates in the world for pristine collateral imo. You cannot understate the economic value of this.
Bro the Euro dollar system was created where I was born. It’s just the same as any other collateralised loan market. It’s really not that hard to understand
I’m applying my knowledge of the Euro Dollar system right now.
The debate would be on the following:
Also, I’d kindly like to ask you to stop being so disrespectful, there is no need for it. It doesn’t help the discussion.
Certainly I can try but you've decided that "someone" needs to debate me based one what? The line of users looking to debate me? It's all bad faith arguments. I prove what you're saying wrong and you just move onto the next topic without even addressing being wrong. These shifting sands tactics and logical fallacies are not going to fly in an actual debate.
Do you think I would pop into your comments on your blog and demand that you debate "someone" because you said something I didn't agree with? I assure you I would not. The level of audacity here is very high and you refuse to acknowledge it. Nor have I seen you concede or even retreat on any point you've ever made over the years: no matter how outlandish or speculative that point may be.
If you want to be proficient at debate and making valid arguments you need to have perspective and be able to argue both sides. If we had a debate where I was the one saying bonds are great and you were the one against them you would get absolutely destroyed; hands down no contest. You do not understand the points I am making (or just habitually minimize them to zero) and you refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that Hive bonds are a bad idea with negative EV. This is a dangerous (and borderline zealous) line of logic that will almost certainly lead to sunk cost fallacy and cognitive dissonance if left unchecked.
You have not proved me wrong on anything. I'd love to see where I need to concede or retract things I have said in the past. If i get something wrong, ill concede.
As you feel about me, I feel the same about you and the points you are making. I mean I'm arguing against someone who think BTC fees will go lower as they go higher and as they must go higher. You are short BTC fees. And even if you are right, low fee bitcoin is even worse than high fee, as low fee BTC will be dominated on the security layer by big banks who can afford to run the infra.
This debate needs to happen, since as you build rhetoric with the community, you move Hive away from time locks on the base layer and away from it being a collaterlaisation layer. This loses Hive and the world a ton of value. Time locks are very important for Hive.
I'm happy to concede I'm wrong if you make good points. But I am yet to see them, where as I see you making a ton of points that in my opinion are to the detriment of Hive. Again, maybe I'm wrong, and if you make solid arguments during the debate, ill happily support the idea of a high APR base layer stable coin, no time locks and no or a simplified collateralised loan system on Hive.
If you wanna set up a debate then setup a debate friend.
Most convenient slots for me are 10 AM - 4 PM eastern Mon-Fri.
It's uh... your funeral I guess.
Already the optics are bad for you:
But sure if you think there's value to rehashing all this stuff and consolidating it down into something more palatable go nuts.
You need to stop letting this be so personal for you. Its no body's funeral. We are just discussing what is best for Hive. The above, and your approach in general is a little bit disingenuous for me, but the discussion needs to be had. Ill let you know. Do you know anyone else who will argue your side of the discussion? I already have interest from two others on this side.
This is an interesting take.
Also, that "too big to fail" line (as far as I know) takes its roots in things that were espoused by the cotton industry back in the day. There were tons of people taking on debt to buy slaves, and most of them were producing cotton. The supply was crushing the demand. This was used as an excuse to prop up an abhorrently unethical industry.
With crypto we can have the best of both worlds. "Money" NOT issued as debt and also potentially NOT issued by a corrupt entity.
I recently watched an old school documentary called the Money Masters which was done back in the mid 90s. It's a good historical account of how debt money came about.
The more interesting thing though was that there have been several periods in recent history where governments have issued debt free currency directly, instead of through the private central bank system. Still a promise to pay but with many less levels of BS.
In my country Venezuela there is one of the largest cases of corruption by a government official who used the cryptocurrency market to extract his assets, even creating an official body to manage the state's crypto capital, which led the country to a inflation and excessive debt,I believe that human beings corrupt everything they create.
What an educative write-up regarding debt and it's associates.
I really Appreciate your efforts to make this thoughtful write-up.
Keep it up @edicted
There are many disadvantages of taking a loan from a bank that's why I have never taken a loan from a bank till now.
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