Took the Loss & Layered Farming 2.0

in LeoFinance3 years ago

bartsimpsoncrash.jpg

I finally did it guys!

I took the loss.

My all in on the cub den was an abysmal failure! I lost $10k for no reason. If I had just stayed in the LP I would be down very little due to the BUSD hedge combined with superior farming. That's gambling for ya! Hopefully you all bet against me like you were supposed to. Perhaps you should bet against me again? Maybe CUB about to moon and you should FOMO back into the DEN? I do have a knack for timing these things, after all.

That's kind of the point though. I joined the CUB farm... to farm. So I want to be in the pool where farming is the highest. Even after losing 25% of my stack and a huge reduction in price I'm still making $1000 a day at these yields, which is obviously insanity.

At the end of the day the pool with the most security in every direction is also the one with the highest farm. I can no longer deny that, and have learned the error of my ways. I feel secure now, and even if CUB crashed to $2 I wouldn't be mad, whereas if I was still in the den I'd be furious, mostly at myself. My bad for crashing the price 10 cents :D. Whales gonna whale.

That being said CUB whales still want to buy at $3, so for now support looking pretty good. However, judging by the FOMO and hype I've been seeing most of the bulls have done what they always do: FOMO. More often than not, the vast majority of users simply can't help themselves and refuse to dollar cost average over time. Especially in a farm like this that actually incentivizes FOMO because APR has diminishing returns every day.

CUB inflation can't be contained.

CUB is different than Hive/LEO because the stake holders can not control the inflation. Even the two main LP pools require half of another asset that isn't CUB, diluting the power of the stakeholders.

CUBs backend is in place and looks great: we are luring outside money into the platform and giving them inflation in return for locking stake in our contracts. That is a double edged sword, because we offer the token to outside farmers who are potentially paper hands that will do nothing but dump their gains.

CUBs frontend needs a lot of work. To make up for all the dumping and lack of control over the native token, we have to implement new defi contracts and burn mechanics that can stabilize the price for a healthy ecosystem. Despite everyone asking @khaleelkazi wen every second of the day, he's faster than 99.9% of the projects out there. I have no doubt that by the time Q2 & Q4 roll around CUB will have a lot more utility than it does now. Speculators gonna speculate.

Inflation schedule

Come Monday there is a strong chance we encounter another round of paper-handed dumping due to all yields being reduced by 50%. Even after said drop, ROI will still be relatively high compared to the vast majority of other options. But like I said CUB is crack and when you reduce the drugs: people panic.

What we have to remember is that even though this hyperinflationary period is ending: CUB still has massive inflation. We basically just jumpstarted the platform and did 5 weeks of farming in the first 2 weeks.

Come Monday it looks like there will be 1.1M CUB total. Five weeks later another 1M will be added to the supply, and every five weeks after that: another 1M coins will be minted. Again, stakeholders can't control the dumping because we are allowing 22 pools to farm the token. The only way to put a lid on it is to keep building value and products that will add token sinks to the ecosystem. It's a totally different model than we're used to. We are very much playing with fire by attracting these moths to the flame of phat gainz.


whatislayering.png

Layered Farming 2.0

I don't know exactly how layered farming works on Goose Finance, but apparently bots took over and filled up all the farms before anyone could join. Obviously their implementation of layered farming is garbage, so I kinda don't even want to research how it was done. I could literally think of a better idea off the top of my head right now:

Layered farming is literally the perfect option for the CUB ecosystem because we already have 3 tokens in the pipe for our layers. Unlike Goose, that likely just created new tokens as ridiculous cash grabs (don't quote me on that I don't know what I'm talking about) we actually have 3 tokens that could be farmed with actual utility.

Three tokens

  • LEO
  • Project _________
  • 2nd layer consensus nodes

All three of these tokens have utility. None of them are cash grabs and none of them could be merged into another one of our projects. Their existence is necessary for the ecosystem to flourish over time.

Because two of these networks don't even exist yet, creating inflation for layered CUB farming is a trivial process. All we have to do is mint some coins with CUB in mind when these products go live. LEO might be a little more tricky. We could sap tokens from the dev fund, create a donation/income pool, or even print them out of thin air if LEO holders consent (I would).

How would it work?

There's no need to overcomplicate this process. Again, I don't know how Goose was doing it, but they were wrong. All we have to do is add the layered farms to the den.

Two variables

There are a pair of variables at play here:

  1. How much money do we have for the given layer?
  2. How much time will pass before all the money is gone?

That's pretty much it.

For example, lets say we somehow came up with 1M LEO tokens to add to the CUB den. The ONLY WAY to farm these tokens would be with CUB.

Again, we have to do everything possible to create demand for the base token. A high CUB price increases APR across the board on all 21 farms This is the outside entry point. Anything we can do the raise CUB price will get more users farming these ROI outlets. Because CUB is connected to the entire Hive ecosystem, it's a net win for everyone.

So now we need a time period. Let's say those 1M LEO tokens are going to be farmed over an entire year. That's about 0.1 LEO every BSC block for an entire year until it's gone. Not too shabby. If the yield on that isn't high enough we can reduce the time period to 6 months or even 3 months for maximum FOMO/hype.

So imagine it:

A bLEO layer pops up... huge yield... huge returns... and the ONLY way to farm it is in the DEN using CUB. Unlike goose, there is no limit to how many users can farm the pool, so bots will not corrupt this process. The more users farm the bLEO pool with CUB the more competition there will be and the less coins they'll get... just like the rest of the farms. Seriously how did Goose mess this up? I don't get it.

The demand for CUB in this scenario will absolutely SKYROCKET. Whatever the yield is for the bLEO layered pool, enough competition will join that pool until the APR comes into equilibrium with the other pools. This pulls CUB out of the LP's and the den, vastly increasing yield and making it easier to spike the price of CUB, while at the same times still leaving plenty of liquidity for new users to buy in.

Repeat this process for Project _____ and the second layer consensus governance token. This would allow us to hit the timing right and increase demand for CUB for a year or more as these pools get slowly drained. It's also possible that we could implement systems to refuel these pools should that be determined to be the right play. Again, CUB demand would skyrocket out of control compared to now due to the exclusive farming privileges of the CUB token. This legitimately creates massive value across the entire Hive network.

Another thing to note here is that the governance token of LEO is going to control voting on CUB. It's pretty much a given that allowing CUB holders (and CUB holders only) to farm the governance token that will control them is 100% necessary. Of course the airdrop to LEO holders will probably be a lot bigger than any kind of layered farming situation on CUB, all I'm saying is that random farms shouldn't have access to these exclusive pools, as the value gained from that exclusiveness already trickles down into every other pool in the form of a higher token price and less competition.

LEO is not greedy enough!

In the AMA we got grilled pretty hard, to the point that someone even skeptically asking how LEO is going to make money if the token mechanics of CUB don't really reflect that value capture. This question straight baffled me. "LEO is not greedy enough, I don't trust them!"

I guess that's what's expected on BSC as it pertains to this new technology. Everyone just thinks everyone is in it for themselves rather than participating in equitable value generation.

It's also just completely ridiculous to assume that LEO isn't going to gain value from CUB. Even with the non-greedy mechanics in place... that's exactly why we will gain so much value from CUB: because it's actually fair, and users on BSC are going to see that sooner or later. Only a matter of time.

Even giving away 1M LEO tokens to CUB layered farming would end up being a huge net gain for LEO. We are so early in the game and there is so much capital on BSC, all we have to do is convince these people that we are the most legit network out there: which we are, hands down. There is so much money out there to be captured, and so many greedy dev teams that don't know what they are doing. It's not going to take long to forge this diamond.

Conclusion

I got greedy and I got caught with my hand in the cookie jar. I got slapped! I deserved it! Lesson learned. LP farm stronk. Back to farming $1000 a day... lol wild.

Layered farming is going to be a game changer if we do it right. Again, no need to overcomplicate the process. It should be exclusive to CUB holders only, as the value generated in this way increases the APR of all 22 farming pools and provides evidence as to how utility is going to be added to CUB in the future. The CUB brand can easily become the most trusted asset on BSC.

Many outsiders are looking at CUB like: "Yeah, but what's the point except to farm more CUB?" Layered farming is just one of the many exclusive features that the CUB token will provide. Of course I say that assuming that this is how it should/will be done. Big assumption on my part, but it sounds correct when I say it so whatever.

Other defi dapps are also on the table. Lending and stable-coin minting are huge cash cows, and would again pull CUB out of the farms and into the new dapps, increasing yield and token price across the board, once again showing that CUB is not just a nameless farming token cash-grab.

Again, the most important thing with layered farming is that we don't just create a token just for the sake of farming it... that's... really dumb and an obviously greedy play. We literally already have 3 tokens in the pipe the fit the bill perfectly. We can completely blow BSC out of the water at this point.

Exciting times.

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Even after losing 25% of my stack and a huge reduction in price I'm still making $1000 a day at these yields, which is obviously insanity.

So you must be having a big investment ? I was thinking, everyone is in WIN situation with CUB. Still learning all the pieces , if at all, I can jump in later.

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whales gonna whale

I am quite enjoying my double dolphin tail.

I threw money in there too - but I can't even tell if I am winning or losing. The Den is straight forward. Compound your growth see how much cub you have, multiply it by how much its worth, there you go.

The other ones... there's your cub... how do I figure out what my lmnopqrstuv token is worth and how to I un LP it when I decide that I won enough?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

There’s a tool on discord that was developed by @deathwing that will help https://discord.gg/N6n3xhVt

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Thank you!

no problem hopefully that's whaat you were looking for.

Are you doing the white magic black magic LP little red mage?

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looks like i need healz

keep grinding, you'll get there!

I like the part of using cub to farm leo!!!!!! I think it is the most underrated possibility of your entire post.

Nice of you to share the bumps on the road too so we can learn from them.

Thanks for yet another insightful post.

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Its like watching my cousin go black in Vegas.

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Told ya so 🤣

It's OK, I did the same as you and learned the hard way. Although you will get your losses back relatively quickly. I have bugger all cub. Burned alot of it with my trial and error :(

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Farmers gotta farm.
Traders gotta get wrecked.

Hahaha I got wrecked too, but not that bad. I'm probably a few hundred down on my initial investment. Which I'm not too worried about as I'm in it for the long run.

I want to at least make it to a clean 1000 CUB by the end of this period, don't think I will atm. Need to get.more cash 🤣

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sounds like we're both learning the same way. I've moved a lot of my CUB back to the farm and now am farming away as fast as possible. And yep, got wrecked.

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Hahaha it happens! Be cautious that if there is a big swing up or down you could lose more than you've gained. If jam it in the den and don't touch it the ROI are pretty cool after 7 days. 3.5 vs 8.5 per $1000 is a big difference though.

Yep, I'll be watching for that. When it starts the bull run is perhaps the time to take the BUSD from the farm and buy more CUB. Even next week should be earning 4% per week in the DEN.

Either that or take the BUSD and put it in a stablecoin farm.

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I am doing an experiment with $300 of Cub in the Den versus $30 in the Cub-BNB Farm if anyone wants to follow along. Interesting results so far.... https://leofinance.io/@offgridlife/my-cub-den-bs-farm-experiment

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I have been doing something similar. I haven't kept many records. Best of Luck with your investing!

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The picture you paint for the layered farm on CUB sounds really good. I would love to farm LEO on CUB.

It also is a fantastic way for all tribes, or future tribes to distribute tokens and get people interested in their projects. LEO and project blank could just be the beginning.

We need NFTs :P

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NFTs are just numbers in a database.
Centralized NFTs are the easiest thing in the world.
Especially when the information is secured on-chain and can be verified by 3rd parties.

is anyone else experiencing problems with cubdefi.com at moment?

yep i hear lot of people are.
I am not, personally.

HaHa! I started to shift a little bit of my cubs back into the CUB/BUSD pool just before you did. Same idea. Now you are making me wonder :-)

Should I switch back real quick??? HaHa. Just kidding. I am going to try out farming for as long as possible and bridge back to LEO before the BlankDrop. Hopefully Blank will be delayed long enough for me to farm a lot of cub ;-)
Not gonna ape in, but will go fairly heavy when funds are available.

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Keep farming, you will be alright. I farmed the hell out of Pancake and i made x10 in 3 months. Compounding is not a joke.

Besides, i am just a bit upset because i used my cakes on dens and paid 4% and they will close it soon. I have a bit part of those money from the den, so i will take the hit.

As someone use to say, sometimes you get the chicken, sometimes the whole hen. (or goose)

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As always, a great reading piece. So, given you advise us to go against your prediction all the time, do you suggest we should not get into cubdefi at all? I trust you with your macro analysis although I did not jump into the den with you with my few cubs :D

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did you sell your cub? :D

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He had to sell some to get in the other side of the BUSD LP

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I am of the firm opinion that when speech exceeds proofs, to be wary.
If you follow video game releases, you'll know that a game like Cyberpunk 2077 was built upon speech and not a whole lot of proof.
Likewise, when reality meets expectations set sky-high, a very catastrophic demise is nearly certain.

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Haha, same as me, same moving stuff to the Den because I wanted to make a little more dollars, same moving back to the farm to make more CUB. Wow that was a tough loss to take, but happier now seeing the farming do so well.

Completely agree about the Cub stakeholders reward in other tokens, because making having the only way to have another needed token is one way to make cub been valuable.

I still don't know about what the next step is for cub, but this sound good for starters

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I like the layered farming ideas with the 3 tokens.
I would love to see that implemented. There are also another interesting things that can be done using this ideas!
looking forward for the future implementations.

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Look at how Unifarm is doing it. We have a couple of projects engaged with them. Kind of an interesting Diamond Hands game.

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I am open to ideas that will grow the cubdefi project and this isn't a bad idea. Using cub to farm bleo seems interesting to me. One of the major things is to bring about increase utility/usage for the $cub token

This is one of the perks of this community. We have forward-thinking people sharing that could directly improve the leofinance ecosystem.

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I have around 9K LEO, most staked in the WLEO:ETH pool and the rest staked on Hive-engine. I only got 40 CUB in the airdrop. I'm not complaining, it's free money; but I keep seeing other guys talking in the thousands. Did I miss something?

Just checked preparedwombat. He had around twice as much LEO as me, and pulled 80, so that checks out. Guessing the heavy hitters started with a heap of LEO and then just hit the farming real early.

Can you say, where I can learn about CUB and DEN? I'm new here for learning 😶

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You learn from mistakes, we must see them as teaching to continue growing. Excellent

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1000 a day is some crazy stuff. Sorry about the original loss, but I feel as if you may bounce back much more quickly than you think. Good luck and let's all HODL together!

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since payouts are in CUB either way, does changing even matter?

Congratulations to CUB! That's a good news! Last night I have been checking it's price on @coingecko, and it isn't there. Good to see it on Coinmarketcap. @coingecko, can you also list CUB?

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Phew! thank goodness I was finally able to find the Watusi with Esperanto course that I was looking for to expand my vocabulary. :D

 3 years ago  Reveal Comment

I can see how you see it that way. I don't agree. I put a lot of money into the first wrapped Leo venture. It got hacked. I lost a lot of money. I licked my wounds and went away thinking that was it.

A bit later I discovered, much to my surprise, that Leofinance had basically given me all of my money back. ALL of it! Not only that. They compiled a study of what went wrong, figured out how to fix it and started the pool again. And they published that study for all to read.

This team is a different breed. Visionaries who are willing to take risk and willing to take others along for the ride. My trust was already high before that incident and was restored after.

They could be exceptional money-grubbing long conners, but if they are they got me fooled. Jump on. Ride the train. Don't know if it is going to Shagri-La, but it's gonna be a hell of a ride and has as decent of a shot as any other trains at getting there.

They gave everyone their money back! And tried again!

Oh yeah. It was a LOT of money. Probably a lot for anybody, not just me.

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A bit later I discovered, much to my surprise, that Leofinance had basically given me all of my money back. ALL of it! Not only that. They compiled a study of what went wrong, figured out how to fix it and started the pool again. And they published that study for all to read.

This is the most important thing. This is how you build trust.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Totally agree, I thought the same thing!!!

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A bit later I discovered, much to my surprise, that Leofinance had basically given me all of my money back. ALL of it! Not only that. They compiled a study of what went wrong, figured out how to fix it and started the pool again. And they published that study for all to read.
This team is a different breed. Visionaries who are willing to take risk and willing to take others along for the ride. My trust was already high before that incident and was restored after.

@steemstreem wow good to hear this,this shows that the LEOFINANCE team care so much about their users.....

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They strike me as people who are winners. Winners don't always win, but they always "win" if you get my drift :-)

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I can attest. I got my money back when the pool was hacked. Things are happening at a very fast pace and we all believe in it.

!ENGAGE 40

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Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

 3 years ago  Reveal Comment

It should not be just about one thing.

Growth can also involve creating multiple income streams for the community and the project. There is no denying that within the crypto sphere money is instrumental in building anything.

It is also important to keep up with the trend in the sphere. This can also bring new community members into leofinance.

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They've got multiple projects being worked on. It is sometimes difficult to predict how much time something will take in software development.

I am not complaining about connecting Leo (and the whole Hive ecosystem) to the financial potential of BSC.

Besides, don't you think CubFinance can't help bring exposure to Leo as well? The team just had an AMA for BSC users where 1500 people were present. They've got more lined up.

Leo and Hive are exceptional projects in the sense that they've got ongoing distribution based on content creation set up. Anyone can come, build an audience and earn on their content. Not only that, I don't think CubFinance is the last of what we have seen in the financial front. There's been talk about building something using Thorchain, a cross-chain liquidity network. Also, CubFinance is just one week old. There is much room for development on it, too.

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@shtup you are right,more great projects will still keep coming up on the LEO and HIVE blockchain and that would make the LEO and HIVE to grow in values....

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They put a project designed for user growth on the back burner

False.
Try again.

Are you serious right now?
Have you seen how fast development is happening here?
Hiring a new dev to work on a new project isn't putting another project on a back burner.
Get real.
LEO is scaling up.

Seriously why do you think the price of LEO spike from 70 cents to $1.10 right when this product launched? Stop making wild assumptions it's embarrassing.

Your point is valid and well taken by me. However we don't really know that they are purposefully putting the cart before the horse. Maybe it just so happened that the cart got ready first and they decided to put it out anyway.

"Maybe this cart won't work well without a horse, but I bet if we put it out there some of our community will come along and push it anyway!"

And lo and behold they did :-) Maybe not as well as the horse would, but it is rolling. And the team knows the horse is coming.

I do get your point, but besides trust, another thing I like about this team is they are willing to give things a whirl when they feel it's good enough.

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Congrats for receiving your first upvote: from me.
I can tell your opinion can be trusted.

LEO has a hardcore reputation and brand that's proven itself for two years and you've shown everyone what's what with a single comment on a new account created days ago.

Awe! this is so cute!

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 3 years ago  Reveal Comment

I know right!
And not a moment too soon!