Obligatory CUB Post

in LeoFinance2 years ago

Am I doing this right?

CUB Finance has been the talk of the town this week. Released Monday with eye-popping APR numbers, then the long refresh refresh refresh while we waited for the airdrop, and now... a dull equilibrium, with APR ranging from 502% all the way up to 2852.10%

Does something have to give? Where do the yields come from?

For anybody new to "Yield Farming", the yield comes from newly printed CUB. Every 3 seconds, 3 more CUB are printed, and they are distributed to the farms/dens based on their assigned proportion. (The BUSD den shown gets 2 portions. The much more generous CUB-BUSD Farm gets 40 portions!) Within each farm/den, they are divvied up to the holders based on their share of the TVL (Total Value Locked) in each pool. (So even though CUB-BUSD gets 40 portions to BUSD's 2, the APR is only 4x, because it has a lot more value locked in it!)

This will continue until CubFi is one week old... and then the release rate will drop to 2 CUB every 3 seconds... for a whole week, after which it will settle to only 1 CUB every 3 seconds. So yes, these APRs will drop by 1/3, and then by half again, to finally be 1/3 their current level (if TVL holds steady). As audit results are released and more yield hunters become aware of CubFi, more TVL will be attracted, and yields will drop even further.

Ideally some of that new TVL will go into CUB, boosting its price, and of course the yields because the newly printed CUB will have more value.

And that's pretty much the Lion's Den! I've been playing with Yield Farming on ethereum for a while, so drop any questions below (or jump into the LEO discord, where tons of CUB farmers are chatting it up around the clock... really it's a good thing I'm on paternity leave, because no real work would be getting done this week anyway!)

Here are some useful links:

CubDefi has some of the best documentation I have yet seen in the DeFi space. If you've never yield farmed, work your way through and then drop any questions below. I'm happy to clarify anything that I know.

This is the app most are using to keep an eye on the CUB price:

For this one you'll need to Connect your Wallet and then copy in the 'Masterchef' address: 0x227e79C83065edB8B954848c46ca50b96CB33E16
The 'Masterchef' is the smart-contract that governs the CUB release.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta


Thank you for providing the go swap link, I didn't know this before.

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You're welcome! It wasn't my find, but I'm happy to share that which has been shared with me.

The thing I can't work out with all this is where does the value of CUB come from? There's no sinks. I can't do anything with it other than make more of it. It seems like a magic money tree to me. I'm a defi noob, so perhaps I'm missing something. The CUB den for instance (where I've staked my CUB)... What value is staking conferring over just holding liquid? What does staking add to the system? On hive it's obvious. Allows you access to the reward and inflation pools and governance. It's not apparent with CUB what the point is.

It's magic money. Asking too many questions just ruins the fun

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This is the truest comment ever.

but we call it Magic Internet Money


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Hahahaha.... interestingly, I see lots and lots of Twitter people complaining about the money trees of the central banks. At least all that free money is converted into debt certificates, ie not really free money. This CUB play is even worse. Its a money free money without any debt certificates. Am afraid in the end money will flow from the ignorant to the experienced... Usually, in crypto space this is a move of money from the poor to the rich.

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Which is life in general 🤷‍♂️

Thats one take, but crypto is promoted so much be the anarchistic people around to drive fairness in some sort. But its not. Its the fiat world to the max. Different rich people in crypto than in fiat world, but all the same. Which somehow is a missed opportunity. But ok, we take all of this as it comes :)

The point is to grow a magic money tree...

The value of CUB comes from... people buying CUB so they can stake it so they can earn more CUB. (Yes, this is really where it comes from).

Infused into this is the hope, wish, speculation, that the LEO team will develop additional features that confer value that isn't just ponzi. If they are able to do so, then CUB will hold value and it will have been a good experience. If they are not able to do so then CUB will eventually sell off as yields drop and speculators move to greener pastures.

The CUB den for instance (where I've staked my CUB)... What value is staking conferring over just holding liquid?

No value except for a little virtue signaling... and the fact that it's difficult for the smart contract to accrue rewards for CUB holders that haven't staked.

The value of CUB comes from... people buying CUB so they can stake it so they can earn more CUB. (Yes, this is really where it comes from).

Yeah, that was my fear. Even though I'm suffering from massive FOMO (other than my free tokens) at the moment with all the hype around CUB, I don't want to sink any actual money into it until I can see a point to the token. Even though I'll probably miss out on some good coin in the meantime.

Hear Hear :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Ahhh, this clarifies some of my questions in the other comment. At this stage, the dens and farms are like Nothing. You even use the term Ponzi... and that may indeed be the correct terminology. I've read from the Leo team - or some promoters of the Leo team, not sure anymore - Leo team is planning to use CUB as the foundation of new DeFi projects. But indeed, that's all an unknown at this stage. We got some free CUB, cool. I have them in the Den and got me 10% return in the last 2 or 3 days, not sure anymore when I entered the Den. But to decide to buy some CUB from the market and stake them to benefit from the high APR (which is dropping fast as per your post and comments), seems pure gambling to me. When CUB value would be halved at the Swap/Exchanges, we need a few weeks of 1000% APR to counter that. I suppose it was best to get into these Dens right at the start when APR was like 8k% or something. That said, we may spend 15$ per CUB, which is now worth only 1/3. I do believe in the Leo team, but this whole UB DeFi thing seems to me even riskier than back in the days when ICO's was the thing. Maybe it's like what I discovered this morning: the SHIB token. Since 4AM UCT this one is pumping. Elon Musk tweeted about it. The website says TBD... even for the whitepaper. From zero to a lot in no time. Gambling with a high-risk profile, like playing roulette on numbers instead of black/red or something. I must say: I wished the Leo team launched this CUB thing only after they had some other project(s) ready to launch making use of CUB. Now it looks to be a little like: Let's try to make money with nothing. Come across to me less honest then the team likely is.

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I don't think that it's dishonest, more like 'strike while the iron is hot' and then as they release the rest of their roadmap there is a core group of CUB holders that are highly motivated to try out and promote the new products.

I think you are correct. The LEO team looks to be very honest and like what they did so far.

Will the ERC20-BEP20 bridge not add value to CUB? Honest question.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

There is some likelihood that it will. It depends on how it's implemented and then how well it's promoted. It seems to me that a very small portion of the committed LEO community have previously been involved in Defi on Ethereum, so they're not really the target market for the bridge to be widely adopted. Will that community be successful at promoting the bridge into the rest of Defi users?
If the bridge can support a wider range of Defi tokens than Binance bridge supports then it would have a higher degree of utility, but supporting a wide range of tokens means vaulting the supported tokens on both sides of the bridge... so it's capital intensive. That may be a future use for the CUB dens, though? Again a lot depends on their implementation and I haven't seen the specs.

Thanks for the answer! I guess we will find out then :)

Posted using Dapplr

So it may be smart to pull out your initial investment when it grows a lot.

So then you only are playing with your earnings?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

i will keep an eye on the chart and bail if I don't like the pattern anymore. I'm not too concerned about a rug pull in this case.

My first yield farming or defi thing. Excited for it.
& Idea is simple fees will be used to burn cub but also leo. So a double benefit for leo holders.

so what APR right are we looking at from money for most of the LPs?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

The APR is a function of CUB print rate, CUB value, and TVL within each pool.

CUB print rate will change twice before reaching final state. CUB value changes all the time. TVL changes all the time. This means that APR is constantly change, and there is 0 usefulness to say "APR is expected to be x.xx %"

The best way to check the APR is to look at what the farms and dens are currently paying, and then apply your own understanding to think about what they might be.

Great post man, kept it very simple.

To me, this is my bet...

I bet on Leo!

What they do, how they do it and what they've brought to the table is what determines my decision on this long term.

To me, they have no reason at all to doubt them for a second...So I'm ride or die with the project!

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Yes, agreed! I wasn't sure about LEO at the start but it's been a solid team and steady development. That makes more a lot more confident now.

Thanks for the info. I just started a couple of hours ago.. am I late for the party?

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I guess that depends on when/whether the music stops...

Cub is a buy at this level. Nice tieme to accumulate cubs

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Hoping you're right! Time will tell.

That's probably one of the best explanations about yield farming that I've seen! Only joined Uniswap for the DEC/ETH pools of SPlinterlands, but dove right in in Cubdefi, and I'm very curious (and bullish!) about how will it evolve.

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I did the DEC/ETH pools for Splinterlands and I'm not sure what happened but I never got any of the raffle rewards that were supposed to come from it. At that point I had already been doing lots of other Defi on Ethereum, so I just shrugged and moved on. Not everything works out the way you expect.

Have you tried try talking to the team? I had an issue too with those rewards but they solved it swiftly!

I didn't bother.

Very useful links, thanks for the disclosure

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You missed the time of 70k% APR, and even better, hour 1 where we were earning an insane amount of CUBs. Really wish I had put in more during the start. But whatever, cubs being used to buy back LEO is a gain in the end for me.

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I think I will survive... ;)

WHAT? 70k% APR? WTF!
True: in the other comments I was missing the concept of using CUB to buy back LEO. That at least is something, but still. How much CUP is earned from the fees?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

We keep needing this masterchef address from time to time for this tool. Do you know where to get it from? Up until now I got it from posts which published it - like yours - but I'd rather know how to obtain it in the first place.

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It's the smart-contract that governs the others, so you could get it from reading the source code of the smart contract on BSCscan... but it would be easier just to save it somewhere.

Thanks. Yeah, I bookmarked a post where it is listed.

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It is in the docs on the cubdefi site too.

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It is? And I thought I read that from beginning to end. Maybe it was updated. Thanks.

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It is pretty good we have
cub to experience defi really close.
The explanations are clear, thanks.
I know what the farms will do to the platform.
It helps the conversion between both tokens.
What about the dens tokens?
Trying to wrap my head about them.
Can you explain please ?

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The Dens don't have any usefulness right now, aside from providing a participation method that doesn't risk impermanent loss (and charging fees to feed the CUB burn).
Theoretically they could have usefulness later; it just depends on what is on the roadmap.

Great article. I would also add that some of the Cub will be burned, which should also increase the cost of the Cub.

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Yes, that is true. If TVL grows enough then the CUB burns will offset the inflation and provide price support.

Yup that's basically how it works.

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This is a very informative post for me. Didn't know where the money for the high APR came from. It's printed. And the amount is dropping pretty fast. I wonder what happens when in a few weeks the newly printed CUB is low, the APR's downed to two-digit percentages or even lower. Why would users keep their CUB locked up? Is some instrument preventing users to pull out their funds? Last year I jumped on the WISE project. That project forces the users to define the lockup time and enforced penalties when pulling out funds earlier. A similar mechanism may be required for the CUB dens and farms as well, otherwise, I have a hard time believing why these dens and farms will keep funds of users when they believe they can make more money in some other den or farm, or a trade/investment in some new project with a much larger upside.

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You're right, the funds are not actually 'locked' in any meaningful way... so the only incentive for users to stay engaged instead of jumping to other projects is community, relationships, and the pace of actual development. If users think that CUB will gain value based on the development roadmap, then they might stay in the dens to earn more CUB, even at a lower APR.

CUB coming down today, I suppose for two reasons: BTC dipping and maybe also some users getting rid of their CUB now the inflation is adjusted. CUB Den APR is around 1000% today.

People that juggle yield farm projects would move on to the next project with the inflation adjustment. They have to sell off some CUB to do so, but it means that yields 'stabilize' a little more for those that remain... until audit results and proven longevity start to attract more serious players that are slightly more risk averse.

the audit is a nice milestone, that for sure will attract some other users!

Keep an eye on this page:

Hopefully will be some updates on it soon!

Owww Thanks! Great page to refresh from time to time! 😉

Who knows ..... however, if Cub is the token used on the new LEO Microblogging app... this is like pre-mining Cub before people can earn Cub from posting their tweets on CubDefi ? Nobody knows.... but it will be used for something ...

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I thought there would be a separate token for that. They have hinted about collateralized borrowing products (a la Compound) and maybe CUB will be the governance token for that...

I've also thought about that. However, after listening to the live chat with Crimsonclad, I doubt that will be the case.
I think th microblogging app will not really focus too much on tokenisation, but will be more about just having fun and short content

Microblogging: I do think they will focus more on tokenisation than you suggest. Initially, the Leo team wanted to use the LEO token for their upcoming microblogging service but left that idea after some heavy push back. Now it'll get its own token. Somewhere I read the airdrop for that one will be 1-to-1 based on staked LEO, but that aside. But ok, we will have to wait and see whats gonna happen. The good thing is: the Leo team is not sitting quiet and doing nothing, quite the opposite. That in itself is good for LEO, the community and with that also for HIVE :)

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Well said, and you covered a lot of important points. I bought some CUB more as a vote of confidence in the team and project. I believe they'll have some cool things down the road or at least i hope they will.

I believe and hope so, too!