Creating The Freedom Web - The Most Important Pieces for a Fresh Start Based on the Steem/Hive Experiment

in LeoFinance2 years ago (edited)

Notice Before Reading

1. I declined payout on this post, as I have & will on all others from this account, because it seems to be the only way to not get down-voted.
2. There are a handful of images in this post - all are memes from my archives, and if there's a credit to give, it's probably embedded in the image.

Hello beautiful humans!

It's been a while since the last time I posted - as I've been spinning around with various projects, investments, potentials, and it's been quite a thing to stand amidst it and see what has the most energy going for it, what people are asking for the most.

My next post will be breaking down all my current & upcoming plans, projects, and investments - but first I really want to at least get one post out, talking about what I think is one of the biggest projects on my plate - certainly the biggest digital one.

This project is something I've been dreaming up for years. Really, since I first fell in love with Steem/Hive - I saw just how powerful this tech could be, and then quickly realized just how close to Babylon it still was, and is.

The Primary Issues with Hive

  1. dPo$ - Stake = $$ eliminates PoB/"Wisdom of the Crowd", as well as valid reputation tracking
  2. Top 20 - Having only 20 governance positions is WAY too centralized, especially since it just takes $$ to get power to vote for witnesses with, and accounts get 30 votes.
  3. No shared values, principles, mission statement, ethos for Hive blockchain - There really never was for Steem, WAY less so for Hive, as it was literally a reactionary project spin-off.
  4. The History - From the ninja-mine to the Tron buyout to the HF that didn't destroy the ninja mine, through various other dramas - Hive has a lot of baggage.

If you'd like to dive deeper into the specific issues above, they've been addressed in many posts, like these, for example:

Hope Is Not Lost

Now... I think that Steem/Hive has been evolving and ever-shifting since its inception. When we include the many forks and sister chains, the impact on the cryptosphere and humanity has already been huge.

There are some things that can change in small ways, here and there, to make Hive better. And some of those things will certainly be happening over the coming years.

However - since the core foundations are flawed, there is little to no chance of Hive being anything like the mythologized anarchist Library of Alexandria that it could have been.

So, since there are already various layer 2 solutions on Hive, and coming to Hive - I'd like to address and turn your attention towards a possible alternative - leveraging the amazing potential of Hive, its nearly 6 years of trial and error, and most importantly a fresh start, with a clear mission and a shared ethos.

One/The Solution (for the Freedom Movement)

I asked a few months ago about what it would take to make something that's effectively a clone of Hive - but different. I wasn't very specific, besides that I wanted a semi-private version of this blockchain to serve various purposes for the Freedom Movement.

To be completely clear, the changes I'm proposing today are not to be made to Hive, but tweaks to Hive's code, used for a totally different, new, blockchain.

This project would not really be a competitor for Hive at all due to the many differences, and vastly more limited & specific scope.

Key Shifts/Solutions

  1. Stake Cannot Be Bought or Sold
  2. Fair Launch
  3. One Account Per Person / Project
  4. Shared Value Set
  5. Greatly Expanded Decentralization

This project will serve its most important roles as a reputation & review hub - of people, projects, events, and more, as well as a blog system, voting system, classifieds, and many, many other things.

Basically, this new platform will allow for dApps to be created, offering alternatives to things like airbnb, fiverr, craigslist, and more - all being tied to the same reputation-based system, with transparent conflict resolution, open-source problem solving across communities world-wide...

Many of these things already exist in their own, independent ways. Some have websites, some Telegram/Signal/Element/Discord channels or servers, some have full on mesh nets.

Projects like:

Now, as I type, is down.

Freedom Cells has been DDOS'd before, and most any project that's out there is pretty centralized, running on someone's servers, besides the few that use IPFS.

By creating a connected network like this, we allow for congregation of data, decentralization of hosting, and a potentially world-changing opportunity for people to step outside the Agenda and connect with others doing the same.

This can easily be used as the backbone of an entire web 3.X - The freedom edition.

Completely off their servers, getting more and more mesh networks and line-of-sight towers to connect communities... Throw in some food forests and 3D printers and we've got ourselves a full-fledged alternate society.

Some Potential Tweaks

The following is basically all the ideas I've compiled so far, that could be potential adjustments to a system like Hive - to reach a more desired end result.

These have come through various conversations, brainstorms, and from other people. I'll keep adding to this post with further ideas, until it's time to move it to some other format.

Now, though I believe that consensus is one of the most powerful & effective forms of governance that humans have, it has its limitations as well. The biggest issues often revolve around something already discussed above: presence/lack of a shared ethos/value set.

Anywho - on with the things I think could help this work out differently...

Gaining Stake - Not Buying Stake

Basically, we gamify all sorts of things on the platform, in order to allow for the building of stake. Some of the simplest things that come to mind are:

  • A birth-right amount for everyone who joins the platform
  • Receiving upvotes & reviews
  • Vouches - the more you get, the more stake earned (in tiers, with a cap)
  • An annual/monthly small increase (potentially in one more L2s) for all active users
  • Completing contracts, bounties, and other community interactions

Another important feature, to prevent from having "whales" and "minnows" is having stake degrade over time, probably with some multiplier (or tiered multipliers) for prolonged inactivity.

As always, adjusting as we move forward, and finding a balance. Just because someone logs out for a year doesn't mean their reputation should just vanish either.

Wait - No Money?

I think there is definitely room within this system for spending coins - I just don't see any way for the whole thing to work if they can be exchanged with voting stake.

Outside of that, we could have pegged currencies (whether algorithmic or reserve-backed), and/or our own currency(ies) for the community. Likewise, communities that already have their own currency or time-banking system can integrate them into this ecosystem.

Having built-in functionality for tipping, patronage/memberships, and exchanges, seems pretty important.

If we do issue our own currency, I would suggest something with an extremely small inflation rate, potentially created by the burning of other assets (maybe some proof-of-burn that issues coins for the destruction of government fiat?)

That inflation rate (and initial coin allocations) would do well to be distributed in a very decentralized way, to reward activity and function as something of a "UBI" for the purposes of easy exchange. Maybe given out for activity/gamification, solutions up-voted, a reward for block producers, etc.

Obviously, we could start to delve into DeFi as well, and it would greatly benefit from the reputation systems already used.

Fair Launch & One Account Per Person

One of the key issues that comes up in governance systems that aren't Proof-of-Stake, is the system being gamed by users who create & control multiple accounts. Obviously, if it's one vote per account, and someone makes thousands of accounts, then suddenly the governance is skewed.

One of the most used ways to limit issues like this is KYC, also known as proof of strawman, but obviously this isn't the answer for a bunch of anarchists, agorists, and libertarians.

I think the simplest & most important way of limiting accounts and protecting the network is through the use of a P2P vouching system.

Basically anyone joining the network would have to be invited by a user (number of invites limited by reputation/stake), and that would count as vouching for this new member - giving their first one. Once they join, other members could vouch for them as well (or against them) based on their own experiences & history.

This would easily allow for the spotting harmful patterns, and weak points in operational security.

Making governance more decentralized

One of the biggest issues with basically any project online at this point is centralization. From the danger of being taken down, to the dangers of centralized governance - it's important that we try to decentralize as much as possible, both physically and metaphorically.

Besides the already huge changes to staking & accounts, we need to get rid of the idea of an oligarchical "top 20" for governance, and replace it with with a system where the number of governing witnesses scales automatically as the chain grows, or is a completely different structure.

Perhaps something like:

  • Straight scaled 1:1, except weighted by the stake supporting them,
  • Switching to a top % witnesses
  • A base number of "top" witnesses, that increases at certain in member/activity tiers (more structured scaling, rather than fluid)

It also seems that anything we can do to reduce the hardware requirements for block producers, would allow for more and more hardware being run all over the planet, by different communities and individuals.

The Second Layer

We can use 2nd layer tokens to represent specific skill-sets and reputations, for time banking and other currencies or IOUs,, as well as a variety of potential uses for private communities.

One thing that seems like a great option, and feeds into the gamification of life is if everyone's various skill-set ratings would all be visible on their profile, perhaps as a separate page that is a Skills Sheet.

The second-layer could also be used for guilds, DROs, Insurance/contracting, and much more.

On-Chain Privacy

Three years ago, @lukestokes demonstrated one method of storing encrypted data on the Steem/Hive blockchain. Using a similar approach, or any other encrypting of memos/comments/posts, with keys held at the dApp level, would allow for projects & users to maintain a higher level of privacy, while maintaining the transparency & immutability of the chain itself.

Between the use of encrypted data, and perhaps the creation of a few automated accounts, designed specifically to be tumblers, we could add levels of privacy to the financials as well.

I'm very curious what sort of private send functionality might be able to run on something like Hive.

Recommended reading: Does Freedom Require Radical Transparency or Radical Privacy? by @dan

Focusing on Reputation

Anyone with an account can write a "review" about someone else on the chain. This would show up as a post, with tagging to mark it as a review, and identify certain characteristics of the review (lived with, online experience, business transaction, etc.)

Each review which would have at least one vote along with a required text desciption. It could also have various other votes used, if there are particular skillsets or community values represented - or not.

The user leaving the review could either upvoting or downvoting that person, 1-100%, along these various axies, and that would affect their reputation. Others can also leave comments on the review, putting their weight for or against, or write their own reviews of the person being addressed.

Down-Voting - Addressing The Issues At Hand

Any down-voting (or maybe any over a predetermined minimum like 5 or 10%) would trigger a notification, asking for volunteers, from those whose accounts have whatever requirements to potentially help with the conflict/disagreement.

This can be laid out beforehand, based on specific reputation and skill-set values, and fully automated for various different communities/tags, where different kinds of help might be needed.

Others can respond to the post, and vote for or against (or not) the original experience, by adding their own. Conflict resolution folks will be confirming claims, keeping things civil, etc.

Numerology, Astrology, and Sacred Geometry Built In

I've already reached out to a couple of folks who know a lot about these things, and see a lot of potential for working some of the more mystical sciences into a project like this.

From release schedules & amounts, to reputation levels & maximums, to all sorts of algorithms for the various skills & voting systems, to maybe running it on a 13 moon calendar instead of Gregorian?

Your ideas here!

I look forward to fleshing this idea out with more and more of you. Even if nothing manifests now, this is one of the most important, and enjoyable (imho) parts of the co-creative process!


More options are always a good thing, but adding new features into the code may be more difficult than anyone may think. I think a more clear path forward will only be possible after a dev reviews the code and has a list of possible features to mull over.

As for one account one vote? Right on.

As for limiting accounts? There needs to be some hurdles, but not so restrictive no one wants to bother. With one account one vote it'll be better than currently, even if someone has ten accounts. Right now 1 account can have the voice of 10k accounts.

Invite only may work for the alpha phase, but not for mass adoption.

I'm glad to see the gerbils are still active upstairs and look forward to further discussion. Hopefully there will be some good suggestions in this thread to inspire new ones.

There are many p2p options out there, where anyone can run a node and the more nodes the more robust and decentralized the platform will be. I think this is the best option.

{Edit 2}
There's a blockchain called Pocketnet, which has a social frontend that already runs on limitless nodes with many of the necessary features in place, including video through a peertube instance. Reputation is only used for moderation and no one actor can take control.

This might be a better blockchain to fork and improve on, since many of the issues are already addressed.

Hey there Kenny thanks for the insightful post on the way forward with HIVE or a better alternative. We anarchists and freedom lovers need a more decentralized platform with more than 20 validators or witnesses running the show. It's way too centralized.

The downvote is an odd concept that has its place but leads to personal censorship by one group over another and affects freedom of speech by manipulating the incentives to post.

I guess any collaboration or meeting place of the masses like HIVE will always have some clashes of interest, despite making it as egalitarian as possible.

You make some good points and with more team work and thought, I'm sure someone will come up with a better system. So let's keep brainstorming.

Nope. Not interested.

  • A place where everyone thinks the same way.
  • A place where you're penalized for leaving (Stake decay in your words)
  • A place where one joins by invitation only (aka: grooming).
  • Promoting isolation.
  • Superficially warm and inviting name.
  • The threat of public shaming sessions where all are notified and asked to attend.

What you're describing, is a cult.


If I were to design this type of system I think delegating needs to be removed. It gets rid of people amassing great power over time. If nobody can delegate then people are more equal.

Also, a fair launch is a good idea but nefarious actors who come in and buy large stake are always a threat. Ensuring the founding team has enough stake to ensure bad actors cant just buy 25 percent of the tokens and take over is a balancing act.

I don't think there would be a whole lot of need for delegation in this system - but I don't necessarily see a need to do away with it.

Since stake can never be bought or sold, there is no possible way for bad actors to take over the system, and there will be various methods to limit the overall gap between a first-time user and someone who's been there doing great stuff for years.

There will be zero possibility of one person's vote being worth millions, while others are worth 0 or 1.

Ok good! That's what I was getting at :)

I really like how this can flow out into real life communities and help them become more decentralized, whilst also connecting them all.
It's not easy to come up solutions to some of the issues on here, especially when anyone can have numerous accounts and use them in a negative way. It is a shame that we now have come to a point where to prevent this, we would need to invite people or have them referred, but I completely understand it.
This is well thought out and I think I need to go back and read it a couple of times in order to grasp it all, but first impressions are very good. This is a huge undertaking, but what a wonderful project to be a part of xxxx

I really like how this can flow out into real life communities and help them become more decentralized, whilst also connecting them all.


By creating the mycelium for them to connect with, we can allow for so much increased communication, sharing of information, goods, and experience, as well as a much safer & easier way for people to connect with other freedom-loving humans, thanks to the focus on reputation.

It's not easy to come up solutions to some of the issues on here, especially when anyone can have numerous accounts and use them in a negative way. It is a shame that we now have come to a point where to prevent this, we would need to invite people or have them referred, but I completely understand it.

I feel like it's necessary to not give the option to game the system in those ways, because if it's an option, then people will go for it.

Plus, invite only (with tracking of who invites & vouches for whom) gives a lot of ways to limit bad actors. If its discovered that someone is an agent (or a thief, rapist, etc), then as well as the various methods of conflict resolution, healing, and restitution that would be sought - the people that person had invited, or was one of only a few vouches for, would be under greater scrutiny.

Obviously this still isn't utopian - because it's the resistance... we have to focus on security a lot more than the grandkids & great grandkids will, once the statists have all glass-bubbled off their cities, with a handful of high-speed trains, and believe lies about how the air outside is unbreathable.

I'm all for more experimentation, but at this point, I think what we have here is as good a compromise as any I've seen.
It's not perfect, 'the community' is more a series of cliques than a cohesive whole or discussion would have been tried before flags.
I'm not ready to throw in the towel, but then I don't have enough influence to be a threat to tptb, either.

Perhaps you could airdrop influence on the new chain to those on this chain that meet some criteria in order to build interest.
If blurt and most of the layer 2's are to serve as examples, launching a new platform is going to be an uphill climb.

You had me at more freedom. 😊 It's time has come imho

I agree! I was hoping someone else would have made it by now, but since that's not the case, here we go :-P

wow im very intrigued and open to these possibilities, especially love the idea of a non gregorian calendar idea

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To support your work, I also upvoted your post!

Check out the last post from @hivebuzz:

Christmas Challenge - Offer a gift to to your friends
Support the HiveBuzz project. Vote for our proposal!

Thanks Kenny for an important piece of the true solution for the massive and complex issue of humanity living all as one as equal!

Article reply:


But really ALL YOU HAVE TO DO... Is activate your BLURT.Blog account and move everyone you can, in your Tribe, to Actually Do such "Freedom" related activities THERE!

It works fine... it has NO DOWNVOTE Button and no NinjaStake anyways ... it's a GREAT WAY to battle all the High Stake BRATS on HIVE with a much Better Crypto... and since the two chains are so close to matching code, many of the second layer and frontend products are easily developed making for a Healthy Compitition!
In My Humble Opinion...

Highest Regards ONCE AGAIN... and GOOD LUCK


I would vote for that proposal if LZ made it.