I am not sure how I am meant to organize my day, as normally I am relatively scheduled and have a pretty good idea of what I am meant to be doing. The problem today however is, I have a training to be held with a location in New Zealand, which means that I am going to be starting the session at 10 PM my time, as they are 11 hours ahead. It isn't a long session as it has been split into two parts and I will hold the other next week, but I have to be in the office for it.

The challenge is that the day is kind of like a 6/10 split, as I have meetings in the morning with people in Finnish time, some in the afternoon with people in the US for their morning and then, the graveyard session in the evening. All up, it is effectively an eighteen hour work day, as even though there are gaps between, the gaps aren't really large enough to do anything of consequence. This makes it a bit of a write-off.
So far, I have spent a few minutes looking at the price of Hive wondering when exactly I am able to quit my job, but it looks more likely that I will be working about 20 years over my death. Well, this is actually not that far fetched if we consider that passive revenue streams do not have to end at the end of life, they can be passed on as an inheritance. I am hoping that eventually, my crypto assets will be of the kind that will benefit my family across generations and even if it isn't much, it could be something that they could use as a steady income source.
I was thinking about this in terms of evergreen content the other day and I was wondering if there will come a time that content on Hive will be able to earn past the normal payout window. Would it make sense to have the window on an open and close schedule, where after close it reopens for another week so that more votes can stack on top? I think this would be interesting as it would allow for useful content that has appeal over time to not only keep earning, but gather a mass of support and interaction.
Another thing that I was wondering is if it is possible to instead of having the post open, could the vote be open instead - where each vote will payout after 7 days to the author and curator. This would mean that there would be no reason to have the post open or close at all and perhaps the sorting mechanisms for popularity could become more sensitive - as there could be posts that are popular for longer or, old posts that are unearthed later due to them becoming relevant for some reason.
This last one would require changes in the curation numbers in a similar way to what LeoFinance have done by having flat curation, rather than the stacking of votes, which I think has been proven pretty ineffective and more of a hindrance to content discovery, especially since it is most beneficial for automated voters. Flattening means that it doesn't matter when an account votes, all voters will get the same percentage reward, which I think is a far easier system for most people to understand and we should be developing for most people. I have never been a curation optimizer, but I think that too many people get stuck trying to optimize their stake through curation, rather than trying to build a better platform through curation.
What I am interested in over time with the LEO experiment however is, what it will do to the active period of posts, as since there is no reason to vote early as there is no punishment to vote late, it could mean that people will explore a little further down the list, rather than pouring votes on in the first hour or so. This could also mean that ordering of posts can be changed to better reflect the posts that are important to the community for more days, which gives incentive for creators to produce content that is valuable for a longer period of time and likely, better quality. This would take time to adjust as most people will still have all of their autos set for a while to come.
Yet, this is the value of having layer-two tokenization and independence from layer one, as it means that experiments can be run that could inform new tokenized experiences and help refine process for both developers and endusers. This can lead to simplification and robustness, which would hopefully also attract investors.
Curation is an integral part of Hive, but I do think that the curation auctioning adds complexity and draws attention without returning a great deal of value to the average user. Yes, some people will earn a fair bit more percentage wise with their stake, but the cost of doing so could be that the social aspects that drive value of the community get ignored. As I have always said, the value of Hive is the community, but some of the technical aspects of Hive are catered for people who are uninterested in building it, yet are still wanting the price to increase.
Thinking that a lot of Hive is already quite manual in nature, it would be good to remove the complexity that can be a barrier of entry into the ecosystem, as people feel that they are "missing out" or it isn't "fair" because they don't understand the mechanisms in play. I think that curation is one of the areas that should be heavily simplified, as even many long-term users do not understand how it works.
As for evergreen content that can build attentional mass over time, there is currently very little incentive to create it, as there is no reward past seven days for either the author or the curator. I occasionally get shares and comments on posts that are a couple of years old as people have found them through a browser search, but there is no gain in that for me or them. Perhaps if there was, the discussion on posts would be more like on YouTube, where posts over a decade old are still attracting comments and interaction, as they come in and out of public awareness and are shared across social platforms.
The ability on Hive to add value directly to an author and earn on consumption is the future of Web 3.0, and we should be doing all in our power to leverage it in the marketing processes. But, it shouldn't be difficult to explain. 50% curation is 50% curation - if your vote is 10 cents, the curation return is 5 cents. This is a far easier approach and sell than the complexity of the 5 minute auction window and the even more complex vote stacking algorithms in play.
While I am hoping that HF25 focuses more heavily on social aspects rather than tweaking reward mechanisms, I think that it is vital to explore how the reward mechanisms affect social interaction, as we all act on incentive and on hive, the reward is a huge part of that incentive and there is no point denying it. Perhaps early on, the complexity made a game of it for many technical users to innovate and explore things like automation, but with so many games in play now, including actual games, simplification of the economics would likely have a net positive effect on the user experience as a whole.
Well, I don't know if what I created in this slot of time is of consequence, but it might be valuable to someone, somewhere.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
One thing we can do is to create a comment below a post with beneficiaries set for the author and then vote on it. If the practice can be made easy to do from the UI, we will not even need to have any code changes on the blockchain level. @knircky had provided some similar service on STEEM.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yes, that is possible now. the problem is that as you say "the practice" - this means it has to be a cultural thing - that also means that every new user that comes into the platform has to be taught the practice. We need to stop looking for workarounds to enduser usage, because it is too hard to spread the information and build the habits. Even now with so few users, many people have no idea what is going on with even the basics. Half the people don't seem to have even known there was a hardfork coming.
I’m a fan of this comment bene idea. It’s also not hard to make this all happen on the backend. The user would be upvoting the post and wouldn’t notice the difference on the front end.
Evergreen content is something I’ve got in the back of my mind to tackle some day. It may be sooner than later now after scraping some ideas off this post/comments :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
So am I, but it should be unseen by the enduser (like the suggestion you had above). I would love it to get to a point where consumers voted content they liked without any regard to timing or age of the content. I would love to see content that attracts "residuals" for years so that one great piece of content might collect thousands in votes over the space of a decades. This would be even more likely in the advent of mass adoption and increase in token price. In time, people will be able to be true authors who put content out that is built to last and be sticky.
Thanks for taking the time :)
I am happy to bring steem-bounty to hive if this is something we think will be used.
Get in touch if it can help.
Best via telegram
You mean they'll have to cast off their Velcro gloves and spent some time behind the computer instead of something else? (Yeah, I know most of the world won't get this).
The Welsh and the Kiwis have lots in commmon :)
Lol...You know I'd heard that but have never run into an expert in the field to verify it...I asked a few Welshmen but they just seemed to get agitated and angry at me. Now I know it's true though. I should have figured.
I sign of guiltiness right there!
Lol...
I am wondering how much teasing I can get away with in the session :D
Hmm, I'd say very little...Depends how badly you want to keep your job...Although it would be gold!
I can imagine it now...
"Ok listen up sheep fuckers, I'm going to tell you how to do computer shit...Oi you, put that sheep down!"
Something like that anyway. :)
I do get to play a little in the sessions, but I am not sure I should be "too familiar" with these guys :)
Maybe open up with...Ok folks, let's get it out in the open right up front, I'm Australian, so if y'all have any Australian jokes you want to get out of the way do it now.
Then if one of those Kiwi mofo's busts one out it's open season from there!
You know why Montana Cowboys wear button fly jeans? 'Cause sheep can hear a zipper at 50 meters. Just sayin'
Lol...Ah yes, the sheep joke applies right around the world I guess.
Best if there's cliffs though.
Haha!
It would be nice to have evergreen content with posts that never expire.
It is possible in various ways. One is mentioned in the comments here where after the close of the post, the upvote button remains active and sets a beneficiary to the author.
Paying out curation rewards based on order received; made a heap of sense under the quadratic reward curve. It makes no sense at all with a linear curve.
I'm still amazed we got rid of one and not both.
I think it would be a good move for simplification and UX now.
Reading this article has just brought some dark spots to light.
I mean you just listed somethings I don't know about like the second layer tokenization and curations too.
And what would you say is criteria for a good post at least of Hive standard befitting upvotes? Recently, I observed a glitch in my reputation it shows an overall 56 but on each blog post it shows 53 and I wonder if this could be a bug of the recent HF.
What exactly does the HF do except that it is not backwards compatible. My question here is what is it not compatible with since it could have just been a soft fork. These past days , I have had connection problems with my dapps.
@ecency and so I tried @dapplr but it does not update transactions simultaneously and other times I just use the brave browser to access the @peakd and all of these started happening after the HF.
You made a point @tarazkp. Hive is a cool passive income and I hope it rises as bitcoin in the future to come but till then I advice you stick to your job. Let's just watch good things happen.
The value of the HIVE is the community. Truth be told, I really do not understand the working algorithm let alone the curation part of it and I feel it is an issue that should be reviewed because people might want to leave the ecosystem because they feel left out.
When a user makes a post on the platform, he or she does it with a mindset of earning compared to other social platform. Now engagements on these posts should not be dependent on luck or hope but rather a principled algorithm like when doing technical or fundamental analysis in spot forex.
Did you try https://ecency.com ? It is working perfectly according to many, also we pushed update to mobile app try v3.0.9 version, should solve all problems.
I haven't heard about the Rep glitch - but I don't pay much attention to rep :)
The last HF was about cleaning up a lot and what has caused the problems with the interfaces (I think) is that some functions were moved to Hivemind to save resources. This broke a few things I think.
I have two - I am not leaving either anytime soon, unless forced out :D
This is the problem with too much complexity - it should be getting simpler, not more difficult.
I am sure someone will try to build an algorithm that will do engagement or tell people go leave a comment on this post. but the only real way to get engagement is to offer it. I often wonder about those people that feel left out of the engagement factor of hive if they ever try to make an effort to be engaging.
Yeah... But how can one measure if his or her post is worth engaging
There is no way to figure that out. What I can say is that if a person that post needs to comment on at least a few of the comments they receive, not all but a few at least to let people know you read their comments. Most votes on post are auto votes, people don't read the post.
There is however a growing community of people that post and vote and comment. By going to other post and content you enjoy and seeing the comments and adding to the comments can and do create a network effect. People will see your name, eventually they will go and take a look at your page, at some of your post and may read and comment on them.
To gauge if your post are worth engaging you need to see what post in the same general area you are posting in are like that get a lot of comments. People have all different kinds of taste and likes, find some like minded people to comment on, and they will comment on yours.
Social aspect rather tweaking reward mechanism, I also go for that. I'm also looking at hive's price and well thinking it'll take longer to start thinking of lambos since I technically don't have a job.
Anyway i feel decentralization is the reason why change is coming in rather slowly
I think simplification of the reward structure would improve social experience, so it would be worth it.
Decentralization faces some challenges - but that is why we are here ;)
Yeah you're right, decentralization faces challenges, hopefully we can make it work to the best of capacity
I agree with this. The curation auction diverts rewards to people who are best at playing the auto-voting optimisation game. This adds no value to the overall chain and these rewards could be better spent elsewhere.
It also adds unnecessary complexity and processing.
I don't see how you can move to evergreen content though. Unless you relax the restriction around voting twice (or multiple times) on the same content.
This is something that I don't know about (I am not technical) but I would assume that simplification would reduce processing requirements in some way or at least, be able to divert them to something more useful.
Voting twice after a certain (long) period isn't necessarily a bad thing. but If we consider that there are multiple tokens also, a post from the past that earned Hive could later earn LEO for example. Currently, there is no incentive for a frontend to bring closed posts in for new attention, as there is no way to reward it for author or curator.
In this case, I suspect those in charge of the kettle here rather wants you do the extra work of a Re-Post. };)
heh, yeah, not so pretty right now :/
Certainly not much direct incentive for you to create it. It would be surprising if someone found a post on google, signed up, and sent a tip.
Surfacing the oldies but goldies has always been an issue. Is it actually possible to find the X most popular Hive posts, with for example unique visits via a google search? A list like this could be met with some tips from some members of the community, maybe.
As for your day, I wouldn't want to swap. Good luck!
Yeah, I think it is people from Hive looking for answers to questions like "what the fuck is curation and how does it work?"
Unearthing would be incentivized if there was the chance to reward. Why would an interface add old content that is closed for author and curator?
An 'articles to tip' feed?
I guess the comments section is open forever too.
Hmm this post and comment thread gives me a few ideas.
1). The backend could quickly generate a comment with the author set as beneficiary and retarget the curators upvote to the comment. To the curator, they upvoted the post like normal, but on the backend they upvoted a beneficiary comment.
2). The upvote dialog could prompt a tip instead of an upvote when the post is over 7 days old. But as you outlined above, this could have other issues attached.
Just brain vomiting here. I may try to tackle this in a LeoFinance update
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
;) Nice.
I would also add that when things come up and there is relevant old content, it might be worth "promoting" it in the feed somehow. I think this would encourage some people to create more lasting generalized content that could attract views for years and start moving up the SEO ranks.
There are many solutions that can be implemented at the layer 2 side and I am glad that you are open to experimentation. I generally focus on the Hive level, but always hope that things will spill over into innovatiion all over the place. Thanks.
Also, on a side note, I don't spend "that much" time talking direct investing or finance and prefer the social side and mindset around investing - I often post them in LEO as I think it is about adding content collateral around the more timely content. I am hoping that LEO becomes an ecosystem of diverse content that supports investing from all angles - hope you don't mind :)
I am liking the sound of this.
My first thoughts are around people trying to game the clicks - most articles are searchable if you include a username. So perhaps something to track unique clicks, and so a bit more work from the gamer required.
That aside, a feed showing most popular 'outdated' articles based on clickthoughs sounds pretty awesome to me, as well as the ability to vote the post, which automatically sends a vote to a comment. @rewarding by @holger80 was something not to dissimilar to this in that it provided a fairly easy way to reward the author (by generating a comment which was 100% beneficiary to the OP). I guess tipping reduced interest.
I might as well take the opportunity to say you and team are doing a sterling job with leofinance. Steemit inc. wanted steemit.com to be the homepage for crypto news, etc, but they failed - hopefully leofinance can crack it!
The comment section has limited appeal.
I really like that flattened curation curve, Most times simpler is really so much better!
Yep, we should be making it very, very simple by now.
Oof what an annoying day. You could do hive in the gaps if you can't do anything else? ;D
The payout window thing is probably the only thing I actually hate about hive mechanics.
Whoever works in that tower must be fit as XD
I "Gap Hived" :D
The window could easily be changed now I think and would make the place a little better.
It is a shot tower - They used to lug lead up there, melt it and drop it down a pipe to create bullets. :)
Sounds exhausting x_x
You know? I ought to post at least once a week on Leo. I really like the whole idea of the place but finance isn't my best gig :) In fact, it's quite a ways down the ladder. If there wasn't some math involved it might be missing :)
You know how I feel about the 5 minute voting wheel. It's amazing how many decay accounts hit that time window right on. And notice I said decay voting with out going completely crazy and on a huge rant. I'm proud of me.
One really good thing about being a wage slave hourly worker is when they kept me 18 hours they paid 1.5x for every 15 minutes over normal day (some 8 hours, some 10). That was union rules. 15 minutes made an hour pay. If they tried to send you home and bring you back they paid for windshield time. The company only got one free commute per day.
Did some one mention decay voting? I'd probably have something to say about that if they did...
You should. I think having diversified approaches has a lot of value. Real experience trumps theory too.
There are added benefits here too, but not so much for me on days like this. I will get the time owed back and will likely get a little extra time off somewhere, but at the moment I am pretty flat out, as are others. This time of year is busy generally, remote training adds another level. I would have been in NZ for this. I would have been in India a few months ago. Vienna, Germany, Croatia, UK... instead - in front of the screen. :D
Decay voting is interesting, as are a couple of other aspects if you read some of the @khaleelkazi comments.
I'm sure being in front of people instead of a screen is way better for you. It certainly is for me at any level. Not to mention a little travel time...
I may write some ideas about what I think ending decay voting would do short and long term.
It would be nice to see a system that could keep post active after the seven day window. When I run across an old post, and enjoy it I will check to see if the author is still active, (has some funds left hanging around), and will then send a small amount of hive. In the early days of Steem i found a book I really enjoyed, I tried leaving a comment on each part, (the beginning of my comment career), in hopes he would respond and I could up vote his comment, after finishing the story I sent some Hive to him. He never really responded to many of my comments, but that was fine, he was busy working on the next book.
Right now we get a warning on PeakD when voting for older content, It does not seem like it would be hard to add another action with that pop-up, such as a check box would you like to send your vote value to their wallet.
Have you read the other comments in this thread yet?
I would like to see a time where people can just vote and know that their vote has value and the author will get some of it. No worries of timing or age, or curves.
I was reading them, and I think it can be done, there will be a lot of resistance but when it is done by a front end then that front end is going to end up with the most users. A system that also has the curation attached would be very useful.
I think it is important, because people are always going to find old stuff that appeals to them and want to vote on it. I know it happens, simply because it happened to me in finding that story that was already paid out.
We are always going to run into accounts that we have not crossed paths with before, some of them may be right up our alley of what we are currently interested in, and being who and what we are we are going to want to pass that thank you vote for the content.