Dead Weight
I get into a lot of heated discussion often about what should and should not be socially acceptable at hive. Don't get me wrong, hive blockchain is "Immutable". Meaning you can do what you want, write, contribute. However, mind you others can do the same.
the other side can do magic too, Prime Minister!
My favorite line from the Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 1, The Other Minister.
My point is yes you can potentially do socially unacceptable things, but just like society, there will be consequences. So as long as you are willing to consider that, go right ahead. This was one of point of discussion at @acidyo 's post, that got a lot of good engagement. I agree with acid that lot of hive is entitled, especially people who are here for a while. Again don't get me wrong, some of you really put in your sweat and love into your content and I appreciate that. However, other's don't. Some of them just want a vote! An upvote, obviously!
After 7-8 years of this, begging for upvote on your shit post sucks! Trust me, the number of indirect nudge for vote that I get daily is staggering. You know it is shit post, right? I am not saying what I write will be published in New York Times, or even Houston Chronicle, but I am not asking for your vote, so neither should you. I write for myself. If you like it vote it (up or down) or not. I don't give a flying fuck! :)
That should be the correct attitude from my point of view. Write for yourself, get what you get and don't throw a fit.
What is a dead weight in a Social network?
This is by no means an exhaustive list, but this is what I can think of in terms of a "dead weight" in a social network like hive.
Inactive users: Accounts that are created but never used, or users who log in rarely and don't contribute to the community. They can inflate user counts without adding any net value to the platform.
Spam accounts/bots: Accounts that exist solely to spread unsolicited messages, scams, or malicious content, degrading the user experience for everyone else.
Trolls or disruptive users: Individuals who intentionally post inflammatory content, harass others, or otherwise disrupt civil discourse. They can drive away valuable contributors.
Content that doesn't resonate: Posts, groups, or features that are unpopular, rarely engaged with, and simply take up space without adding value to the platform's core purpose.
created using Napkin
To me those bottom three, below the water line of this iceberg plot is the main problem. In both Splinterlands, and at Hive we have struggled with these type of accounts and individuals. Personally speaking, I have my share of trolls. I DV and stop people to who mess with reward pool for personal gain. I am very happy to do it and will continue to do so as I see fit.
Bots in Splinterlands was traditionally a big problem, well not bots themselves (as they can't think), rather people who extracted rewards by using them to their undue advantage while not thinking about the economy of the game. If one person uses a bot in a league where it is allowed, typically there is no problem. However, when a swarm of them were used to take undue advantage from the game economy, it becomes a problem.
At hive, there are content that offers no value.
Numerous actifit posts with one random picture and 10 word, and with zero comments, zero engagement, (most of these has no reward, so that's okay, I mean, it is not worse!)
Spam replies from numerous hive-engine tokens, Pizza, Beer, Wine....and whatever other crap (I have them all muted)
Phishing comment to seek engagement: "nice post!"... "what a great picture!"... Yep!
Stock charts : BTC to the MOON! BTC wrecked....all I can say to these... We call them POOR!
We have seen so many entitled folk over the years. They get tired and start to cheat. Fecking pisses me off because they then trot out the exact same reasons every time.
I like that iceberg graphic. The other type of spammer that I hate is the relentless same type of post blogger. No effort posts about a flower in the road or picking up some rubbish. When you have a hammer everything starts to look like a nail but sometimes their really is nothing but nails!
It's the same story every time isn't it? :)
Oh I cam make the post longer with a list of all different types of spam :) but I thought I should spare the details. Otherwise it would be like pulling wisdom tooth.
I have a recent troll named Olaf who is spamming everywhere in the blockchain regarding my vote trading! The ass wipe doesn't even know what a vote trading is! Its pathetic.
The story never changes from them even when they have seen others say the same!
I don't think you could fit all the types of spam in one post. They are endless.
They say words and phrases like vote trading but they are just reciting shit they read with out a single thought in their heads. Wankers!
Look, not knowing something is not a crime, but with today’s world all you need is 1 hour with a few websites and key people and you can get a good understanding about anything really quickly. I am sure you have looked into notebooklm! What a tool for research!
My point if you are ignorant today, likely you are lazy. That is my quick generalization!
It is a spot on generalisation! There are no excuses, not now. AI can be used for more than spamming postsb or even as you say a bit of old fashioned searchingregretfully these folk won't ever learn
A lot of this comes down to curators and by that i mean bad curators such as autovotes, vote selling in the form of delegations, voting based on self-interest, and other things that make you wonder why some posts get votes to begin with.
Not to toot my own horn but some of the things you've mentioned here have been things we've looked at for a long time before deciding to vote posts and how much to vote them, such as engagement they receive, engagement they give and general effort. Naturally there are certain exceptions, i.e. if users are new and still getting a hang of things.
The account you talked about in the post was as you said, not hard to see why they didn't deserve the votes they were getting.
Some thing I think that would make this easier on curators and give them little excuses to vote the way they do, could be some kind of indicators we could ask front-ends to place on users's accounts. This is something I've mentioned in the past but may require some manual work, a bot list:
Basically, people would vote on certain active account's to determine if they're bots or not, i.e. "Congrats you've received 5 straws of grass" and if enough users agree it's bots, they'd be placed in the bot list. Front-ends could still show these comments, but they'd get placed in a "2nd tier", meaning any comments of accounts not in the bot list would automatically get above the standard comment filters of posts and at the same time only the real users' comments would count as real engagement. So we could have an indicator now that would easily show curators how many "non-bot" comments an account receives on average per post and how many comments they leave, maybe even show how many they place on posts not their own, etc. Similar to KE, we wouldn't need to shove this in people's faces, but it could be there among other info for the curious curators to easily be accessible to avoid voting on those not even trying to gain an audience. Cause that's really the least you can do on hive, especially if you're a nobody like most of us outside of it.
Look, curators can only to so much though. I have a lot of respect for them. Obviously bad curation happens and it’s a problem but lot of the bad curation is automated and other problem is what I call lazy curation. Someone write about a regurgitation of a dead game…yep 100% vote from honey-swap. That’s just lazy.
I agree but I also understand why they are "lazy" probably you feel that too. If I vote 100% in 10 posts a day no one realizes that, but if a guy like trafalgar do that, the post is there in the trending hehe, so everyone realizes that. The proof of brain is interesting in theory, but maybe many guys don't have the time to keep curating in a rational way. If my 100% vote is worth $10, I should vote small percentages, but then I need to vote in more posts...do I have time to read posts? But I want to keep my 8%+ APR of curation rewards... it is a tough decision and judging them is complicated! (I already complained a lot about bad curation and I am just trying to bring a peaceful analysis!)
You forgot the guess the price posts. Those drive me crazy and I just found some the other day that I seem to be auto voting. I need to adjust that when I get back to a reliable Internet connection. It's a bit spotty deep in the pine forest of Michigan.
Yes I forgot!
Damn it! I have going to DV some ETH price predictions posts now! :) :)
Glad I could help...
I'll be honest: I came to Hive because a friend told me I could earn some money by sharing my photographs. That’s what initially attracted me. But once inside, I realized this platform is much more than that.
Unfortunately, everything that is born must grow and mature — I suppose it's part of the process. I haven’t been in the Hive community for long, but I already feel like part of it. I believe it has all the potential to keep improving, though there will always be things we’ll have to deal with. Maybe curations could improve, or we could just vote with more awareness.
Sending warm greetings from Cuba. I’ll always stay tuned to the topics that bring real value to the community.
I know a few people from there. If I were your friend who introduced you to hive, I would have told you take the photos for yourself and publish them at hive. It’s a free gallery and a free archive. If you get some cents for that instead of a gallery fee or archive fee, that is a bonus.
Of course now I understand, but it is very clear that the main motivation is votes and rewards. We have to gradually mature and see the whole picture, understand the potential of hive. Thank you 🫂
Yeah, I haven't been around very long, but it became quickly clear to me that not all Hive content is created equal. All of the short 10-words and a photo Actifit posts always seemed a bit out of place to me when they come up next to a well thought-out article or a beautiful photo series. Not to say that I am not supportive of their fitness journey, its just that, as you mentioned, they doesn't seem to add any substantive value to the platform. I still don't understand the purpose of the pizza, beer or wine tokens haha
Yes, not all posts are created equal, not even close.
Seems like a good solution to this would be to make a change to Actifit app so it allows users to post in Ecency Waves or PeakD Snaps instead of making everyone post from the app to the regular blog. Actifit concept itself is great to record step history on a blockchain...
Yes concept was great!
Usage is not.
I know you use it to excellent effect. However you are in the minority.
I think that is the most amazing tip, and I try to communicate this as well. But I won't deny that in the beginning I always asked why nobody saw my post. Your post explains well. Even if you write a fantastic piece, if you don't have too much networking, no one will read it. How many posts do we have in da daily basis? A lot. It is easy to miss a fantastic post. And also a fantastic post for me maybe doesn't bring any interest to you or to another user.
So that is the tip write to yourself and be proud of it. Don't care about who is voting on you, if it is Trafalgar or honeyswap with dozens of dollars. Maybe the small user that enjoyed your post with a vp of $0.01 is the really good vote.
I learned how to appreciate comments and organic engagement more than votes, that is another tip =) . Sometimes I appreciate more my post with less votes compared to a post with 0 comments and over $20 . Well sorry for the big text!
No problem with the big text. I have a German friend with whom I typically write 500 word comment threads! Lol. He will show up you will see :)
hahaha many people got inspired in the comments!
The iceberg graph is pretty cool, I’ve got to look into this napkin app or AI.
Ever since I saw your KE post I’ve been trying to be better about interacting with other community members posts. I don’t want to just come in write a post and leave anymore. I want to strive to be a better community member.
That is good. More you network with people more people you know and friends with. That is the way social network grows.
I whole heartedly, and enthusiastically agree with you on all the examples you provided.
I have started downvoting posts that are using the splinterlands tag that do not talk about splinterlands that are trying to farm votes off the autovoters. A lot of the time they are meme charts or incoherent rambling about the movement of BTC on some obscure market over the last 10 hours.
While my downvote is small, and returns a pittance to the reward pool, it all counts for those genuine creators who do pour their effort into their posts consistently.
I do this manually while trawling through new, looking for something to read. I will continue doing that.
Please post the account names that abuse Splinterlands tag and I will be happy to take care of them.
I also got some accounts that are using splinterlands tag for unrelated posts, as well as posts that are machine-generated and try to reduce their rewards this past weeks. Even tried to talk to one to stop using AI in writing their post, but doesn't want to listen. Will give you a heads up when they make a new post.
When you get a chance please give me a list Saydie.
Will just dm it to you in discord then.
I haven't seen a trend yet, but I am happy to tag you in my comments I leave when DV the posts.
A lot of this behaviour is inevitable when you are paying rewards and there's no central control to police it. We only have a few thousand users and how many of those would be seen as having real value? If we got to millions then the proportion might still be the same. Scaling up will make Hive more viable, but also bring big challenges. I don't have the answers.
Well I have one answer.
I am the police :)
Yeah, hard to scale, but for know I say we police fairly good and we have a lot of spare capacity.
a while back I asked Hive and facebook people to vote for my comic in a contest(outside of Hive). But I felt quite uncomfortable while doing so. And I did not win anything anyway... all in all I agree with you. Some days my manga/ gaming post earn more than others. Some people like or dislike my content. But I enjoy it so I continue making it.
Yes if you can detach yourself from expectations of reward you will feel more content.
Hi there. I've been following you from a while now as well as a couple of users that commented this post and even without still knowing much about the blockchain( which is a bit more that when I started bot long ago) I agree with both, the post and the comments analisys and have always been wondering why is it that these things happen. Sometimes I see, from my limited understanding of this world, strange behaviours related to posts I consider "shity ones" but are highly upvoted and seen some others with great value, again, from my point of view that probably is not the note qualified but still find myself a good appreciator of quialitily, with not many upvotes. Then I think to myself, that's unfair, I can see good content here, effort, time, intention...and nobody else can see that?
Anyway, is good to read you and keep learning from this place as I usually do with some other long placed users.
It is highly important to know people. It's not nepotism I'd say, it's networking. It is likely I will interact with people I know and not interact with people I don't know.
How do I know people? By sharing things about me and learning things about the other individual. It's really simple you know.
I understand. That's what I've been trying to do plus learning about hive. It's simple and also interesting.
We have dead weight in our Splinterlands guilds too. I've noticed players, even in T5, that sold off all cards and only play with soulbound rewards cards to gain SPS and merits. Some of the same people stay in the discord(s) just spreading negativity, the trolls, as you've labeled them.
sack them from your guild
Yes, we probably should.
Remember, this is business, and not charity. You have to make hard decisions in business.
if your limb got gangrene, you have to cut that limb
First of all these your message really got me woke up from my sleep and also reallly really happy somone could speak up about these it becoming a lot bull shit contents with no value just getting lots of spam vote really pain in the ass we all community holders could works something out and vote post worth value and time i think hive personally is going to be a place where we can all enjoy if whales can really looks beyond vote on what really matters then we all good and with due respect i would like to pin this message in a community
I say you can go back to sleep.
Thanks i feel i just belittle
The actifit posts have got to be the worst. No story, just a stat. 5k steps today. Okay but how did you get it though? Did you go to the farmers market? Perhaps went on a hike with friends? Tell a story! 😭
Yes telling a story would be useful.
Assuming the order of your iceberg is that the best stuff floats to the top, I would personally have this order:
Mainstream Content
Unpopular Content
==========
Inactive Users
Low-Effort Content
Trolls
Spam/Bots
I don't think that unpopular content is necessarily dead weight. It's like you said, just people without support networks or content that hasn't gotten traction. While the platform as a whole has growing pains, so do individual users. Once they give up and move to low-effort content or become inactive, that to me is when they become a burden on the platform (though inactive users have minimal burden on the blockchain, so even that's not all that bad).