You don’t need to read my last post for this one to make sense but it’ll definitely help.
In it I talked about how we all have our own framing of the world including what we see as “normal”, right and wrong, and important.
The point of the article was to express how people trying to pull you into their frame makes social interaction less enjoyable, and it’s a very common behavior because mainstream culture is very strong.
I compared the difference in how you might see the world through religious framing vs. legal framing vs. a worldview of freedom and self sovereignty.
I tried to make the case that while legal framing and religious framing is fine and good, it’s not something we should force on to others, and that having sovereignty as a base frame allows other people to believe and live as they please which is generally more harmonious than trying to force everyone to agree.
This can be uncomfortable though because there are some things we really don’t like or support. But if we want the freedom to feel how we feel and live like we want to live, we have two choices, force everyone to be like us, or accept that people will gravitate to things we don’t love.
I believe in radical acceptance under the condition that no one is imposing or manipulating others, and for that reason I try not to assume others have the same concept of good and bad as me.
Even if I don’t understand something or think it’s unhealthy, I won’t condemn someone for it if it doesn’t have a direct negative impact on someone else.
I was about to introduce them when I realized my post was getting too long, so I will start with those.
Sado-massochism, for example....I wouldn't want my kids exposed to it at an early age, and I personally don't think it's the healthiest of hobbies, but if it's behind closed doors or in a film that is explicitly made for adult audiences, I don't think it's my place to make a fuss over it. Rather than that, I'm curious about what motivates someone to participate in it, and if you can allow me to have my doubts, I think we can be friendly anyway and I will reserve all my judgements. It also makes for some brilliant symbolism in art (see Nine Inch Nails video "Closer").
Hard drugs. I think they are dangerous and unhealthy and very different from plant based substances like marijuana, mushrooms or ayahuasca. I personally don't want to be near them, and I might be careful of someone who I know is addicted to them. But if that's part of your past or something you do in a controlled environment and can go without them, I'm not going to hold that against you. Even if you are on them right now, if you aren't making problems for people, I don't want to impose on your freedom to do what you want with your body. Please tell me how it feels. I will listen with curiosity and continue to live in my own way (I don't even drink alcohol).
Swinger Parties. I might freak out a few people here, but this idea is easier for me to accept; for me it feels like a very natural thing, but there are also some things we don't want to leave 100% to nature, otherwise we wouldn't wear shoes.
Yes, for me monogamy is not an absolute, it's more like wearing shoes, it reduces complications and makes life more comfortable and happy. But if you think you can get by without it and don’t lie or manipulate, go for it!
I don't believe multiple partners is something we are likely to be able to balance honestly and with integrity in society with all of our imperfections... and I can easily imagine power dynamics and insecurities creating problems in this kind of environment. So I look at these kinds of things with skepticism, although I will not speak ill of someone who engages in it as they don't show me a lack of integrity in how they behave with people (please don't try to lure couples into it for your own personal desires, or lie to your partners for example).
I know I probably alienated 98% of people with these examples, even though I don't participate in any of the so-called extreme examples I listed. Even simply trying to be accepting of them seems to alienate people.... So maybe you can imagine when I say that 98% of people make me feel alienated by their judgement calls, not even of me, but of others.
I don't actually see myself as being ultra open minded and accepting. From my perspective, the majority of people are just extremely close minded, and Then there are some even some people who disguise their close mindedness as open mindedness, criticizing anyone who takes a more traditional approach to life and values.
I get it. I find myself judging people for things that don't affect others too, but I try my best not to make others uncomfortable or force my framing on them.
The average person seems to have a million ideas about how things "Should" be, and don't really know how to accept other people's different ideas about "should". It's ok to have an idea about how things "Should" be, but is it something we need to bring into every interaction? Is it something we need to insist on when we are just discussing things in a one on one setting? Isn't there a way to leave room for the other person to see things their way and live in their own way and still interact with them?
I imagine some people say yes, but then take every opportunity to tell others how they feel, and sometimes we really don't have the energy to battle our own framing with your framing. Sometimes it's not worth it because our debate isn't going to change society and our energy could be used more effectively in other parts of our lives.
If two people with different perspectives talk and it comes from a place of both parties wanting to understand each other, the interaction is almost always positive, but if it comes from a place of one person trying to convince the other person it almost never does.
The things that make me tired aren't judgements about the small minority of people who engage in the behaviors I've listed, but rather the judgements that include huge portions of the population.
Simplifying a statement or common ideal to label the other side of a political debate evil. No thank you, I don't care which side you are on.
Calling all non-believers devil worshipers and evil....uh no.
Assuming that anyone who believes or doesn't believe in a conspiracy theory is stupid. Nope.
Assuming all people want kids or insisting that we should. Nah.
Blaming all problems on socialism or capitalism or racism or one religion or all religion. I can't.
Focusing on negative things all the time.
Assuming someone is unhappy in their situation because you would be.
Treating your values as universal: Money, Family, Faith, or even my personal priorities of Freedom and Community.
Assuming that people should act a certain way: go to clubs if they want to date, take care of their parents when you don't understand their family situation as well as they do, for example.
Equating law and morality
Looking at people as a stereotype instead of an individual (even an Italian is allowed to dislike pasta, don't freak out over it).
These are all conversation we can have but no one wants to be forced into them with your framing, so if you want to engage in this kind of conversation, it would be a lot more comfortable if you ease into it and do so from a perspective of wanting to understand rather than wanting to convince.
So it's no wonder that I want to be around people less as I get older and experience more and more of these judgement calls, and the framing of others.
I have just as much difficulty navigating the framing in America as in Japan (left right paradigm, strong influence of both academics and religion, and very very strong emphasis on race and identity, all hard for me). In Japan some of the assumed paradigms I have a hard time with include concepts like:
- the idea that working for a good company is the goal, being a freelancer or a small business owner is not taken seriously.
- the idea that foreigners are guests here even if we feel more at home than in our home countries and have local friends and speak the language.
- the idea that people are supposed to fit in, even though many Japanese people don't want to fit in but just can't imagine a comfortable life showing themselves freely.
- How some behavior is considered to help avoid awkward situations, in my behavior in Japan meant to reduce awkwardness creates much more awkwardness.
- Categorization: everything in Japan exists in a box, and if it doesn't fit in a box, people tend to avoid or criticize it.
- Busy = Good is a very common idea in Japan and I wholeheartedly disagree. Boredom is where inspiration comes from, I need space in my schedule to feel bored sometimes.
- The natural tendency of anyone abroad (including myself) to always compare to back home, whichever you prefer. I often find myself wanting to say "That's only normal in Japan" but that leads to framing me as the outsider.
There are many more.
Luckily I have open minded people in my life, some more open minded than me, some similar, and many who are more conservative than me but appreciate my "open mindedness" as they would call it.
This is such a complex topic, I don't think I did the best job of expressing what I wanted to express but there were a bunch of interesting points I wanted to put out there, so feel free to respond and let me know if you can relate to feeling tired of being pulled into other people's framing.
Posted Using INLEO
Wow swinger party again. 😅
I am going to be honest the last time when you mentioned it made me a little uncomfortable but I think I have grown up a little to say with clarity that it's not for me.
I think we as a society are reaching to a point where most of the people are unable to have independent thought process, everyone is either influenced by something either a religious beliefs or political ideology.
I am not saying that all of its bad butwhta I am seeing is that people are losing the ability to question. Infact most of us are picking a guide and blindly following him or her.
People are either busy being political correct or correcting someone.
It's all freedom of expression and speech up until the point that your views are aligned with them.
You know the funny thing , when I mentioned NOTA (None of the Above) as my choice for the election I was kinda hounded by leftist and right wing 🤣🤣🤣
Which begs the question where will the nowings go?
Sorry for dumping all this here but I don't want to say It on other platforms and others blogs. ♥️☮️
I think you got to the heart of what I wanted to say. The point is not that we all need to be swingers or political moderates, the point is we need to question our own views and motivations to make sure our values are consistent and truly based on something real and we are not just parroting things.
Not many people would claim to be closed minded, I guess the majority of people on the internet would call themselves open minded, and yet you are not allowed to not choose from two sides in most people’s mind, right? It isn’t enough for you to disagree with their enemy, they expect you to agree with them.
You know I’m not joining swinger parties either, but I’ve done enough self audits to realize that personally that is not a moral call but a practical one about priorities. My relationship is too valuable to risk on something that would basically just be a little fun once in a while. Testing the limits of our relationship would take a lot of attention away from things that could improve our lives and make us more fulfilled.
If someone is turned off by the idea of swinging for other reasons that’s ok too! I actually don’t know any swingers, only people who practice polyamory and I find it fascinating because it tests people in ways we aren’t used to testing ourselves, but so does not wearing shoes….
Maybe after I become self sustainable doing what I love and travel the world and overcome more immediate challenges, then I can try living without shoes or without monogamy. I’m still open to that but only under those conditions 😝
Right on point, it's like people are no longer allowed to change their mindset. In this example itself till the time you are in favour of swinging you will be loved by the swinging parties but the moment "you" decide not to swing you will be attacked, labelled and marked as a traitor. Your credibility will be questioned.
What makes it worse that there will always be an non swinging memeber who will come forward to defend you but will make the matter worse by imposing his/her opinion. 🤣
Needless to say it's not just applied to swinging. 🤣🤣🤣
We are doomed man.!! People are now just to afraid to admit that they were wrong or were experimenting with thoughts. The idea that you have to belong to a group is what destroying the society. And we are failing to progress. Because no one is interested in solution anymore but to point out what's wrong with the existing system. ☮️♥️
PS: lovin this conversation.
We definitely need to accept that people think differently from us. Imposing what we think is important on other people is a mistake in my view, because what is right for me may be wrong for you and vice versa, so each person sees things in their own way.
For society to evolve, it needs to understand this, that each person has a different perspective and that, as such, each person can contribute in their own way and improve something.
There are many different perspectives, but when they come together, they produce a unique and better result.
I completely agree. I always wonder why curiosity isn’t a bigger motivator in people’s behavior. I think if it were, none of this would need saying.
When physical danger is present it makes sense to retreat into one’s own world but even when people are safe, they seem to prefer comfort over exploration (even in really simple ways). The easiest example of this many people here can relate to is how when we invite people to have, so many hardly check it out. If it’s not their thing that’s fine, but I can’t even tell you how many people just heard blockchain and scoffed and acted like I was in a cult. I completely gave up trying to talk about it with anyone.
I have always gone out of my way to understand things I didn’t understand and cross bridges I’ve never crossed which is why I have had decent conversations with a porn star and a prostitute even though those are industries I don’t wish to support in any way.
I don’t want to force others to do things my way but when I see so many people hiding in their bubbles pretending to be open minded I feel a bit of an urge to write about it 🤷♂️. If it opens one person up even a bit I suppose it’s worth it.
Thank you for stopping by and understanding!
I understand you completely. People just want to impose their own truth and don't understand what's new. Like your example of talking about blockchain, no one bothers to believe or try to understand it. They just judge it as a crime or something wrong, without understanding or reading about the subject. If they did, they might have a different opinion, but they just impose their truth and that's it, without even trying to understand the other side!
I really liked your post, big hug!