I realize the price has affected a lot of people badly, especially many who rely on hive to help them out economically. I still didn't expect some people to act the way they do and furthermore who's acting that way was also quite a surprise.
Now I'm going to say the obvious, and I realize some may just be pointing this one out cause it's an easy thing as they may have no idea about the chain and peolpe involved. KE doesn't mean much.
For starters, it's super easy to cheat, just powerdown other accounts and stake them all into one account, or delegate to another account for returns and power those returns up, or just wait for HP APR to outweigh the KE. In theory mine should be a lot worse than 1.48 I'm at right now, but my point is more about the user and what they're doing rather than looking at one number and judging them by it.
"this obvious abuser cares more about hive than you cause he has a lower KE" I was told today, which was quite funny but not surprising.
I could go on about the countless hours I've put into hive, the countless projects I've supported with my hive/delegations or the countless projects I've started and successfully ran for many years (which does affect your KE just FYI), but I don't think it's worth discussing things with certain people who are determined to judge you by something as simple as KE.
Something I think that does matter however, is what your KE is going to be longterm.
We all know how hive's inflation works and can somewhat anticipate it, not counting how hbd conversions/dhf affect it, either by inflating or deflating it when things are looking greener as we've also seen a couple years happen.
Recently I decided to take a loss in a project I had invested hive in a few years ago, quick maths guestimation would be roughly 40-50k hive invested at 20-30cents each. Dunno, it recovered a little bit price wise but it's been such a long wait and forever that it stayed low that it felt like I need to remove some risk from it now as I'm unsure about its future. These things happen. Especially on a chain where the native token isn't doing too well either. Doesn't mean I'm angry about it not having done better, it was my own decision to invest and risk a good amount of hive on it. The thing I don't regret however is that I did get involved and I wish more people would with what they can afford (and not like me, investing more than I should have), because it's a sign of support. So I do not regret delegating to that project for a long time as well as buying up their tokens as they were dumping for many months and I'm glad I managed to get some hive out of it because I wanted to, once again, invest more in my own tokens (Zing).
Now that's been a project that's been eating most of my Hive like crazy over the years, and in many ways.
- Delegating to it 150-200k hp for ~2 years.
- Buying up zing tokens for over ~2 years.
- Buying up alpha vials for ~1 year (most of it thankfully before the dip under 20c but quite a bit lately as well to get things done).
These are things KE won't really tell you.
Does that mean I care less about hive?
A project that's built on hive, hoping to retain and onboard more players to hive, with some potential seeing that other games on hive have managed to bring a lot of attention to this chain in the past.
Now I know that I'm pretty much locking up Hive when i buy zing, the idea that I'd sell zing isn't really something I consider anytime soon because it's a very longterm project for me, same as Hive itself. This means a few things and most of them hurt my finances.
I have to sell hive to help fund the project at very low prices, this can some times mean weeks if not months of inflation rewards. That hive is gone and won't get me curation rewards/stack for higher rewards over time while inflation rewards are dwindling. Hive is on big exchanges whereas Zing isn't and who knows when it'll ever get on them, furthermore people would judge the project if they saw the founder unstaking his holdings to try time the market or something even if he planned on buying back on the dip just to maybe get some of his hive back, so it's not something I've really considered. Even though we launched the token fairly and everyone was able to earn it at the same time with delegation rewards as well as other ways, people will still judge you for it and not care what your plans are. Not even need to mention what it'd look like if a major stakeholder would start an unstake, or that most people may not realize I've bought those tokens fair and square when they get into the project later, it's definitely not a good look if you don't know the history seeing the founder having 150m+ zing out of the ~500m existing.
Yes, I could've created anon accounts to hide my holdings, but I don't really play hive that way, I've been straight forward about my plans and that I won't give up on the project as I usually am quite stubborn to keep projects alive since it feels like a loss for hive to let them die. I've also been straight forward about funding issues we've had and whoever paid attention may have noticed the periods I wasn't able to buy zing because I had to buy products since the latter directly funds the project while the former doesn't. Smart players could've gotten in at good prices and taken advantage of my late investments but that still doesn't matter much to me because I'm here for the long game.
Either way, I think I may have spent well over 60% of my HP holdings on my own projects over the years, which I guess would bring me down under 1 KE, which still would mean I've sold more than I've bought because I haven't really been great at timing the market or wanting to sell too much at once due to irl reasons. But being told by someone who randomly pops up and is active again after they bought $1k worth of hive that I don't care about hive sure does take the cake in admitting you have no idea about this chain and the people around here. Guess it wasn't enough that the biggest stakeholder told them they're being quite moronic in another irrelevant post.
I do wonder sometimes if people take a moment to think about how it must be to be in another person's shoes at times, I know I don't do it often enough myself and I appreciate some who tell me to check myself at times rather than being yes-men all over the place. I'm sure you could imagine if you're a dev and you get active in say the ethereum ecosystem and starting out you'd start judging stakeholders based on their current holdings rather than the things they've worked on and accomplished over the years - it'd be quite embarrassing to proclaim these things on an immutable and public blockchain to say the least. Maybe I'm the one being a moron just getting baited again like usual to this new way of driving attention to yourself by being edgy towards others.
The day I stop caring about hive I think you'll be able to easily tell, it'll most likely start with me quitting manual curation.
I don't usually comment on these kinds of discussions, but after reading your post I felt like saying something.
We've only had limited direct contact, yet I've been following your work for about a year now. During that time, I've seen the projects you've built, the support you've given to others, your manual curation, and also some of the challenges and frustrations you've openly shared along the way.
What struck me most in your post is that people often judge what they can easily measure, while much of what truly matters can't be reduced to a single number. Time, commitment, responsibility, supporting projects, helping others, and simply showing up year after year are things that don't fit neatly into a metric.
As someone who also prefers manual curation, I know that it takes far more effort than simply letting things run on autopilot. Whenever one of my own posts received your support, I appreciated it because I knew there was an actual person behind that vote.
What I've observed over the last year is not someone who doesn't care about Hive, but someone who keeps investing time, energy, and resources into it despite setbacks and criticism.
A while ago I came across an analysis of Hive where your name and mine happened to be mentioned in the same sentence. The context wasn't particularly flattering for either of us, but I have to admit it still made me smile a little. Not because of the comment itself, but because being associated with people who have left a visible mark on this ecosystem is not something I consider negative.
So thank you for what you do. People are free to disagree, question, or criticize, but sometimes it's worth remembering that those who contribute the most are often carrying burdens that others never see.
And for what it's worth: I think your work speaks much louder than any KE number ever could.
One small disclaimer: English isn't my native language, so I used AI assistance for the translation. The message itself, however, reflects my own thoughts and feelings.
Appreciate the comment, now I'm curious what that mention was. :D
For me personally I care a lot more about how much time users put into their hive activity over KE, if they're contributing then who cares if they have no stake, it mainly sucks for them next time hive goes up and they may find themselves in a position where it's hard to earn that stake back since more people come back and new ones arrive.
I do however still see a lot of, let's say, careless curation. Where projects/stakeholders don't care if the author isn't being consumed at all and there's no signs of it anywhere as well as no signs of the author even trying to connect with others and build an audience to justify the rewards they get. They may not be big right now in terms of $ but it's still a lot more hive than many others get who may be doing more and trying harder. That's something I wish curators would try better at so others aren't forced to step in with downvotes when it becomes too much.
I even have friends who've posted occasionally but if I noticed they weren't really contributing in other ways I've had to ignore their posts or vote them much lower due to it, while others seem to think that we have to keep these authors active and posting at any cost, even if they barely do anything else other than post and collect rewards.
So it takes a lot for me to downvote some users and I never zero out the rewards on those usually, but I try to stay neutral about it and justify it by what I see after doing some research and crunching some numbers. Some times I may downvote some users for other reasons but hey, we're only human. :D
I notice I'm already following you, I haven't been able to curate much the past year as I've focused my curation on traffic generation, but hopefully I can split up voting power a bit more in the future.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Your point about valuing a person's contribution more than a metric really resonates with me. Numbers can tell part of the story, but they rarely tell the whole story.
I'm happy to share the post. The context wasn't particularly flattering, and the comparison between us wasn't really based on the same circumstances, which is probably why it made me smile a bit. Some of the observations about me were linked to experiments I carried out with multiple accounts while trying to better understand how certain aspects of Hive work. Whether all of the conclusions were correct is another question, but it was certainly an interesting read and I learned quite a bit from the experience.
I also understand your perspective on curation. I mostly curate manually as well and try to look beyond a post itself and consider the person behind it. That's not always easy, and nobody gets it right every time, but I think it's a better approach than relying solely on numbers and metrics.
As for the mention, I think what amused me most was not the context itself, but simply finding my name in the same sentence as someone whose contributions to Hive I've been observing and respecting for quite some time.
Here's the post:
https://peakd.com/hive-122609/@bpcvoter2/ou-can-keep-lying-the-blockchain-will-keep-recording-and-in-the-end-only-one-of-those-two-things-will-remain-when-the-noise-has
Hahah yeah okay I get it now, guess that's a sign that you're becoming someone on Hive if that account mentions you. xD
Haha, I hadn't thought about it that way. 😄
Let's just say it was a memorable way of discovering that people are paying attention.
"I even have friends who've posted occasionally but if I noticed they weren't really contributing in other ways I've had to ignore their posts or vote them much lower due to it, while others seem to think that we have to keep these authors active and posting at any cost, even if they barely do anything else other than post and collect rewards."
I think this is a really honest approach. I really appreciate and respect it.
Support engagement with a delegation to topcomment:
50HP - 100HP - 250HP - 500HP - 750HP - 1000HP - 1500HP
The price factor has affected, is affecting, and will continue to affect people; low prices cause panic, and panic is like when a zombie virus breaks out in a story.... People lose their ability to reason, though it’s not like they reason much when things are going well either, haha 😅😅
The KE is an eye-catching equation, but it’s very crude and rough. I think it can be manipulated, and besides, it doesn’t evaluate the good—the whole story of what the person has contributed—so the equation fails because it only focuses on the “bad.” I think it’s like evaluating a system of tanks and saying they’re bad because there’s a leak without considering that the tanks are 30 years old.... 🫠🫠
I try not to get into these details because I’d rather avoid the stress, haha, but I’ve wanted to write a post sharing my opinion on the KE for a while now, ever since the controversy first arose. Back then, though, my day-to-day life didn’t allow it, and I’d rather write reviews that bring me more joy 🤩🤩
This is a very insightful piece that clearly explains how a single metric (KE) cannot capture the full reality of a person or their contribution. It’s true that it’s easy to judge people based on numbers, but their history, the time they’ve invested, and the support they’ve provided to projects are far more important. I also like how you emphasize a long-term vision and the fact that you continue to focus on building and supporting the Hive ecosystem. It’s an important reminder that a holistic understanding is more valuable than a quick judgment
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@acidyo, your vote is on it.
Hi, I know you're working hard. I don't know much about Zing or Tokens or anything like that, but I do know you're building something amazing with ScrobbleLife and Holozing. I think everyone will realize it eventually. I hope you continue being a manual curator and have enough time to keep improving many more things.
Cheers!
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
But in modern society seems like everyone feels entitled to put the mouth in litterally everything, even something he got no idea about... I would just put on ignore list
I think it is pretty sad for the Hive when someone of your stature, longevity and hard work gets a stupid comment like the one you mentioned.
They think that coming in here now and buying hive at the floor means their opinion is worth more than those who've been around longer for some reason. Like we owe them a thanks or something.
I would like to re-read it, but first, I would like to know: what is KE? A quick search says Kinetic Energy, and it does not fit anyway near to this narrative :(
it basically just shows amount of author rewards + curation rewards and compares it to your current HP. Basically if you've sold more than you've bought with a few ways to cheat it if you really want.
fluffy fellow
What KE doesn't account for is witness rewards. I have a witness KE and other metrics dashboard built, but am reluctant to show it off as the normal KE ranges that it shows label some as extractors and that doesn't take into account what some of the people might have done for Hive.
Though it is still interesting to look and compare the various witnesses and how much witness rewards they earned compared to how much they have staked...