Hive Needs Users - Your Stakeholders Prevent Adoption & Onboarding.

in #hive2 years ago (edited)

Hive's current user base is not large enough to expect traditional content creators to adhere to the hate of large stakeholders, this behavior is preventing the adoption of Hive.

If you were a new user, with a follower base on other platforms - and a top ranking user with heavy weight over the site started insulting you - would you want to advocate for Hive?

I believe that the reason many people are fearful of standing out against this type of behavior towards your new users has to do with stake weighted voting, 1) they fear being downvoted by this stakeholder and losing their revenue, 2) with the consensus mechanism Bernie holds significant weight over who becomes a top 20 witness - what does this mean when the person who treats your new users this way also has significant control over the consensus mechanism? Is this truly what decentralization looks like?

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is it possible that you never clicked an upvote button on this network? or are hivestats wrong in showing you have no curation rewards.

Very good point right there.

it is really weird if it is true.
idk i would probably click it just to see what happens :D

Of course she hasn't. But she CARES SOOOO MUCH ABOUT HIVE!!!!

She "cares" so much, but while she earned over 6k HP, she only has 2.6K in wallet...

Okay you're really taking it too far now being "concerned" over the consensus, it's getting borderline cringe and I can't help but feel it's all about the rewards in the end. These whales may be mean and maybe overdownvoting some posts but just cause it's happening to you doesn't mean they actively go and do the same to new users or new content creators - in fact they curate them along with everyone else as long as they produce quality content that deserves the votes. This one whale does not agree with the rewards some of your posts have received and has used his influence on the reward pool to adjust that, others may adjust it back up if they don't agree with his downvotes.

It's really starting to just look like you're out for drama. I don't want to be mean but trying to pull on the "omg this is bad for hive and new content creators" is not going to work, as a curator who focuses on rewarding new users and content creators I can tell you that they almost never get downvoted. The difference between you and them is that they produce quality content and often times exclusive for Hive - even tho the latter is not a requirement. If you think you can use your influence to shit on hive just cause your own experience (rewards) sucks right now while you pretty much have no knowledge about the platform and what goes on here I'm going to try and let you know that your following on Twitter really doesn't mean much, nor does the Binance nomination. It's a good thing though cause it means we're still very early in the adoption of this tech considering how little quality influencers there are out there to choose from and how their influence is most of the time originated from buying followers with random giveaways or spam tweeting.

I supported your content in the past, especially those that I thought took some effort to create or benefited Hive in some way so the rewards would be justified but what you're showing here lately, regardless of how some whales are treating you is almost worse and I will be looking to cast my votes and attention elsewhere.

I know you're going to say I'm fearful of the whale and that's why I'm siding with him, and even though I've known him for over 4 years on the platform there have been many times we've been in conflict and called each other names, etc. It's decentralization, you can't please everyone and you can't be friends with everyone, each move you make may alter the course of your future rewards on the platform. There's been times I've given my opinion on something random and it has cost me witness votes or downvotes on my content, but I can tell you it was way worse on Steem. Needless to say most of the drama stems from downvotes and most of the time that's about the rewards. If you don't like downvotes then maybe twitter or other platforms without downvotes/dislikes is your place to be.

I have advocated for Hive endlessly across my platforms, to be treated so horribly on this platform by the stakeholders makes me not want to use the platform, and makes me want to stop talking about it. I am pointing to the fact that this is very bad for adoption. And it is.

One big stakeholder* it may not be great for adoption in your case but in the long run being able to find a good balance of what posts deserve what rewards depending on the content and what the users in question do for it is good. My advice would be to ignore, like you ignore most of the trolls on twitter and try to prove to them that you are an asset for Hive worth rewarding and supporting, either they'll stop over time because they see it themselves or others will counter their downvotes, but not this what you're doing now. You're just going to get more people, like me, to not want to support you in the future just to play victim and adhere to your "i like whatever she tweets cause she cute" followerbase. Not saying that's the majority of your followers and it's not unfounded that women or better looking guys get an advantage on Hive either but we're not your average hivemind that exists on other platforms and are easy to get to follow. We've been through a lot and have seen a lot of different things people do for rewards, attention or the spotlight and most of those times downvotes are the thing that bring someone's true colors to light.

Anyway, I hope you can think about it and reconsider and like many others said in the other post, engage more with the Hivers. I realize Twitter is big and you do okay there but Hive is a completely different ballpark, if you were to truly understand how it works you and many other bigger existing influencers would try a bit harder here.

... if you were to truly understand how it works you and many other bigger existing influencers would try a bit harder here.

Maybe, but ... who needs whom more and thus should try harder? Do the influencers need HIVE or would HIVE need a few more influencers? :)

We don't need these kind of influencers. Influencers are bs in general, you could say they are a centralized shilling service. Rather have strength in numbers advocating for a platform or ecosystem than someone that goes 180 because of downvotes or someone being mean to her.

Influencers are bs in general ...

I am not an 'influencer expert' but I tend to disagree here. A few people who increase the popularity of HIVE can't be something wrong. This community is still unbelievable small and in my opinion urgently needs new users.

Concerning the flags I know that HIVE supporters try to explain again and again that they only serve to fight plagiarism, abuse and the 'redistribution' of the rewards pool. As long as that's the case I am fine with flags (actually, I think the option to flag is essential).
I wouldn't complain if someone flagged some of my posts in case he thinks they were 'overvalued'. However, if a whale selects a certain user to flag every single of his/her posts due to personal animosities without even reading them, then I don't think that helps to improve the platform but only keeps off people from using HIVE.

The downvotes can easily be countered by a group of bigger stakeholders if they think they are overdone or the content/user doesn't deserve them. Sure it takes some time to get the attention of those who may counter them along with not caring about retaliation but it's not difficult. Going full retard because of the downvotes though is just a lose-lose so I'd rather focus on influencers who may not just be out for rewards or attention.

PS! I don't mean to be insensitive to retarded people, it's a reference from one of my favorite movies. :)

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Sure it takes some time to get the attention of those who may counter them along with not caring about retaliation but it's not difficult.

If someone would constantly downvote you or me, maybe (maybe!) some stakeholders started to counter these flags, but if any newbie is affected, most of the time nobody notices/cares about that - and if then he complains loudly in public, he will get the explanation that that's blockchain/HIVE ("Don't whine, it's just the redistribution of the rewards pool, nothing personal!"). Whale flags and comments are never ever meant personal, you know. :-)
And then, when after the frustration he has already left the platform, what do you think he will tell his friends and colleagues about HIVE?

You cant expect her to understand the intricacies of our system here. She doesnt understand the politics here. She doesnt understand the hierarchy here. She doesnt know who the good guys or the bad guys are. She doesnt know who you should talk to and who you should not talk to and we should not expect her to.

Hive is a extremely complex beast in the sense there is far more to it then, lets say, the simplicity of Bitcoin and cryptos like that.
Your social standing is reflected monetarily, your portfolio is affected by what you say and do.

Id say her reaction is warranted and understandable. Ill reach out to her and try and explain a few things if she catches my DMs.
Lets not take the "this is why you dont understand HIVE" approach. You and me know how this shit works, weve seen it all a million times. She hasnt and she is valuable.
Lets exercise understanding.

Even if she doesn't understand anything, most users and influencers wouldn't act this way because of one downvoter and "trollish" comments. If she doesn't understand everything hive that's fine, my comments were also meant to bring some of that up but at this point, considering what she's been using as a defense it almost seems like she knows more than most newbies/influencers would about hive and trying to use it for her own argument.

Downvotes feel bad and people dont like getting downvoted. Its really as simple as that. They feel like theyre losing something and as it is set up now it does look like they are. (we need a UI change asap to reflect how the reward pool actually works).

Thats why many times downvotes are used for greefing and as a vengeance tactic by a lot of people.
Because almost universally the instinct is to feel youre losing something and those that want to "hurt" you know that otherwise they would not downvote you over difference in opinion or an argument.

That being said. Regardless of what is right or wrong or who is right or wrong, she is useful, she has a decent reach and we really shouldnt run people like her off of Hive because she stepped on the toes of someone that has significant protection. Because she doesnt know whos who.
Thats not how we should present ourselves outwards.

Even your comment, as much as you might feel is neutral, she will see it like she has no support here from anyone. DO we want that?

She had my support for a long time, I even noticed she hadn't posted in a while after I ran into the interview with ADA creator and checked what's up:

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it's mostly about content creators who come in here, drop their stuff, fill it with links that literally makes it difficult for manual curators to even get to the upvote button and over time prove that it's all about the rewards, not about community, engagement or anything. Hey if she never engaged on Twitter either and just pushed her main tweets out I'd think it's normal for her to do the same everywhere, but looking at her account you can quickly tell this is just a linkdrop place and mentioning Hive here and there should make up for it. I admit she does more than what those conspiracy "influencers" do but trying to twist things into her favor here with how "newcomers will never join hive if this is how you act" is just ignorant and unnecessary.

"newcomers will never join hive if this is how you act" is just ignorant and unnecessary.

Never is an exaggeration ofc but she is not wrong. As i said, we need an UI change that will reflect what downvotes actually are. She is acting on instinct and reacting to a feeling of "losing something".

Thats really nor here, nor there. Ill try something else, might work.

@xeldal, @blocktrades, @theycallmedan. Could you please heal some of the downvotes received on @cryptofinally blog. I understand that many might feel that her engagement isnt high here, or she is simply link dropping or that she doesnt understand downvotes BUT her value was never in her content it was in her twitter reach and the promotion she provided for HIVE as is seen most recently in the Cardano interview. Having the Hive name mentioned by prominent crypto figures is never a bad thing. I say its 100 fold worth (from the investment stand point) then what a good artist, musician, writer might create on Hive.
It is good to have people like her on our side and i think we should consider all these things when judging the value of someones contribution.
Contribution can reach far beyond the actual blockchain.
So please consider healing some of these downvotes.

she has an account for almost 2 years, not that she is a noob. also i find incredible and mind boggling that i found an account that has 70 rep and has 0 (nula) curation reward (never clicked upvote button) (nice thing, she is not voting on here own posts)

I think that's a bit of a fallacy no social media site or forum prior to even the Facebook era grew their users through superusers or influencers, even less so in a niche space. Influencers are a product of within a system not from outside a system and if the product is worthwhile and easy to use and there's value its network effects will take hold, if not, it dies and the market produces something else, that's the free market at play.

I've onboarded 6 users to HIVE and I know it's not easy, it takes time, care and guidance and the majority of them will not even stick around, that's the nature of the space right now. People value the convenience and reach of centralised social media and the penny will drop that they are getting a raw deal with time, regardless of what you or I or anyone does, it's going to take years.

I'm by no means one of these people getting massive rewards, I use the platform because I like to, for months even years I never got over a dollar for my posts the MAJORITY of people don't. You can still post and bring value to HIVE regardless of any rewards, in fact, I would be inclined to say it would show your commitment even more if you set all your posts to burn rewards or send it to the DOA for chain improvements

If you choose to stay great to have you here and hope you'll interact with the community and support some of the projects, if not I wish you all the best with your crypto journey.

Why would you write this many posts about some random guy on the internet?

what does this mean when the person who treats your new users this way also has significant control over the consensus mechanism?

It's not about you being new user, it's about your content being full of affiliate links (2/3 of the post), not bringing much value to hive and getting $25+ in rewards!

If you only post, never responded to comments or handed out a single upvote and curated, I guess you don't know about the hard work that people on this site put in each day to distribute inflation so it's easy to through out complaints 😂 does that sound to sour of me?

Not the first time autovotes spoil people stupid.

Lol gets downvoted blames governance but I know crypto and want to educate people, um okay

Everything on hive is "Stake-centric." If you buy stake that somehow allows you to post a single meme for a HUGE payout but people like you are the DEVIL for being a pretty woman basically. Stake rules Hive ... Which is fine ... except a lot of the early investors are huge hypocrite babies who btw WHINE TO HIGH HEAVEN if they get flagged.

They think they are better because they invested more. Meanwhile Bernie posts single sentence posts. Inertia posts a single meme. Trust me you are the LAST person spamming.

And you cant post affiliate links? Hmm I wonder why other channels dont have affiliate links? Probably because they are criminals so they dont want to link social media or even show their hideous face.

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THE ONLY REASON ANYONE CARES ABOUT @cryptofinally.

You want respect? You ain't gonna get it this way, honey.

😂

100$ i guess why this happened. Twitter DM.

@cryptofinally when she realizes people only listen to her because she's wearing a crop top and posing like a wannabe Amsterdam hooker.

This does not help Hive.

AHAHAHAHA you have 592 followers AFTER ACTUALLY TRYING and you think you're somebody?!?!?!

I have 512 and I've done nothing. That says a lot about you and what people think about what you do here. (Hint: you dont do shit, baby doll)

Either do you. Facts are facts, baby doll.

Who exactly have you onboarded? I've never seen anyone give you credit for them coming here. And certainly none that have ever done anything more than milk Hive without purchasing a single token.