You have problem noticed by now (if you use PeakD) a new piece of data by a user's reputation score called KE. This is the Krampus Coefficient, a numeric metric created by @azircon (I think) that tries to represent how much stake a user keeps that they have earned on Hive.
You can see his definition here:
It is a very simple formula that just adds up the author and curation rewards and compares it to how much Hive Power you still have. The higher the number, the more Hive you have powered down and likely sold.
I was the one who suggested PeakD add this to user profiles despite not being a fan of it. Why? Because it is a metric, and an interesting one at that.
But I thought you don't like it Marky?
I don't, but I do like data, data is beautiful. The problem with KE, is that it is frequently used in a vacuum, and that's when it is no longer interesting. I am not a black & white type of person, I like to evaluate the data available to me, and make a decision based on that.
Everyone has their own life style, demands, situations, and needs. No one should be telling people what to do with their money once it is in their wallet (unless they stole it). There is no requirement to keep all your Hive forever if you want to post and participate here. I have no problems if someone sells their Hive, that is their right to do.
I do believe taking it in consideration is practical. If I see someone posting pictures of flowers in their backyard every day just to throw something on the chain to get votes and is immediately selling it all, I for sure will factor that into my opinion of someone.
If someone is doing their best to contribute to Hive and needs to sell some or even all their Hive, it is very unlikely KE would influence my opinion of them. This is why I hate the KE ratio, because most people who use it are only factoring that number in their decision to upvote or even downvote a user. Hive is decentralized, you are free to vote however you please with whatever criteria you want.
KE on it's own offers a very specific view on a users activity, but doesn't tell the whole story. I do like seeing KE when I view profiles, and I believe it should stay, but as suggested originally, I do believe it should be an optional toggle.
I see PeakD as a user interface for experienced and power users on Hive. I've mentioned it a few times in the past to the team about having an advanced mode and easy mode (targeted to new users). Being able to toggle features like this would be ideal. Hiding the KE under a ton of clicks would drastically reduce the value of the feature, and forcing it on everyone is less than ideal. The ability to turn it on or off would satisfy everyone, provided that's something PeakD wants to do.
We all know reputation on Hive is broken, our worst users are the top reputation on Hive. Unfortunately, it is all we have right now, and it is very difficult to replace. Almost all signals on Hive can easily be manipulated and financially motivated (votes, follows, comments, etc). There has been talks of alternative reputation systems, but it is difficult without good signals. Reputation is also very computationally complex and requires a lot of processing power.
Anyway, this is just my decentralized opinion, feel free to influence the reward pool how you feel it should be with the stake you have available to you.
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
Posted Using INLEO
Data is good, and I don't think that it should be hidden behind a toggle. The only way to manipulate KE is to buy Hive and stake it. I think we should all be for that kind of manipulation 😜
You can also move it to another account and artificially raise your score, and witness/dhf rewards are not factored into the calculations
You are correct, Witness rewards are not factored in, but we only have just over 100 witnesses that get rewards and those rewards drop off sharply after top 20 and after that to insignificant levels after the top 60 or so.
There are probably even fewer of DHF recipients to worry about. In total we are talking about less than 100 Hive accounts that can be significantly impacted by those two exceptions and it would apply to all other hivers 😀
If you are moving HP around that is a zero sum game, you can't improve KE score in both places/accounts...
So I still think that for the mere mortals the only real way to manipulate their KE is to buy and stake Hive.
Yes, they can.
Yes, witness rewards are not factored in
Mind you I designed it for common people. There are many exceptions possible. I can prove the exceptions are not statistically significant for the "active hiver" population I am after. About only 8000 accounts :)
It's worth mentioning though, a lot of people don't fully understand this stuff so I try to be clear.
Yes. I have been writing. I am glad you wrote this post. Others have as well.
More we talk the better.
I really like seeing the KE ratios.. been shocked at some of them I have seen.. And been pleasantly surprised by others.
A question.
Have you ever considered switching your voting BOT back on, using one of your accounts? And.. I don't mean for me as I used to be one of those benefactors, but for these other great posts that are out there.
You may not know this, but I took inspiration from your original 10% vote across the board before you stopped it due to a certain someone (who appears to be gone for now).
I took your idea, and many of the votees on your internal list (trawled though the chain and retrieved them), and devised my own with a lot more rules.
Bringing yours back online, at least in a partial form would inspire people and likely help your witness rank.
At least think about it.
With the DHF the way it is and auto votes grossly rewarding ai and low effort content I feel my votes are going where they are best served.
I don’t vote in a way to get more witness votes. I do what I feel is best.
I agree.
I have numerous examples of people who I manually vote at 100% and read their post and a few of them have KE above 10.
On the other hand I have downvoted people with KE of 1 for their low quality template content and zero engagement in anything on chain.
I have publicly said many times and showed people numerous plots and data clouds on how I am using KE with other data. I can only show people the way, can’t make decisions for them.
Thanks for reminding me of KC :) we had great time together during those days :)
He's a funny chap, $14 for posting one sentence begging for some ZIL for transaction fees.
You should put that sentence in a larger Font size... some people still didn't get it, and leave auto votes for bad users with high rep, since it is "safe".
No people put auto votes on them because it doesn't make any difference. You DV those bad users, drop the curation of the auto vote. Write a post about them. Write 10 posts. It will stop.
It is a good idea. A bit of exposure is good.
Thanks for the insight. I agree, having that the KE is an interesting piece of data. As you said though it should just be one factor. Also one person's opinion shouldn't be accepted as the rule on Hive which tends to happen a lot.
Yes - please make it an optional toggle, @peakd!
Yes. As much as I hated the reputation scale, which I don't even look at tbh, I hate the KE number - for same reasons as you suggest. Love the idea of an easy/advanced interface! So cool.
Just curious, why do you hate it?
It doesn't matter to me personally, I know that number for everyone anyways:)
Whether that number is displayed or not it exists. Whether peak displays it or not we created public tools for curators where everyone can check that number for free. These tools will always be available and will always be free.
Peak put it there because people asked them to put it there. For the record, I didn't.
Because I don't like these public badges. Sure, people can dig and find out, and that's fine, whatever, but I don't get why we need these public displays. There's one guy here a while back literally crowing to me that he had a rep of 81 and I honestly didnt understand why that was so important. I guess I'm the same in real life - I don't care how famous or how much money you have or how long you've been around - it's whether you are a good person/player/Hiver (and personally for me, an interesting one, which is highly subjective).
I guess on the flip side it annoys me that some people might make judgements about me based on my number too. I probably shouldn't worry but that's just me. Or perhaps it's just it feels so superficial.
But you know me too, I'm not really a data person.
I think I missed the whole KE debate - it seemed to turn up mysteriously for me haha.
you already have a public badge
You are at a social media platform my friend! Everything is public here. That is one reason I hope you are here, otherwise you would throw away your laptop and live happily ever after :)
I know and I think that's a dumb badge too! I'd elect to remove it if I could - that's why I like the toggle switch idea. Had to laugh then... I didn't know I had ticked over to 81.
I don't mind public, just not in ya face wear a badge public. Feels ego driven.
That's just me though.
funny how that goes
there is a name for it I guess :)
karma!
LOL. I am from India. I actually know what that word means. It carries a much deeper meaning in Hindu Philosophy.
FYI, I am an atheist, for whatever that is worth...
Ah yes I'm familiar with the more complex idea of karma! I'm an atheist too, but I do appreciate the ideas in Hindu philosophy a lot more than in many other theologies/ideologies!
YES!
Let us know if you find out how we can hide this number from our profile, while I respect the idea I don't think it's something I (or many users) want or need displayed on the profile. This kind of thing should be buried in a public statistics section or something.
you only see it if you go to the profile page (or did i miss something). So it is not really in your face all the time.
Button would be nice if it is not to complicated.
and i do agree it is not end all be all stat to make any decisions, could be flawed, but sometimes nice to know.
Still nobody ready to bite that bullet,huh?
Add them to the list until the chips stop falling, imo.
The only time better than now, is years ago when it became readily apparent what was going to happen.
What options would the toggle offer?
Can other people hide their number from me, or would the toggle only control what I see?
In my opinion it should just toggle your user interface you see to give you options
My KE is well below 1, but that's mainly because I am in HODL mode for crypto, and five years ago I was in the middle of swapping
STEEMto HIVE as fast as I could power down post-fork. It is a data point, no more, no less, but it can signal an account is worth a closer look for other malicious behaviors. I know folks with a high LE who had to cash out due to meatspace concerns, too, so like you said, that ratio means little in such cases.I should try to get mine over 100.
Thank you for your witness vote!
Have a !BEER on me!
To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below
View or trade
BEER.Hey @enforcer48, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @isnochys for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.Nah, just read the quote in the image, click on it, and you'll see that creating an alternative reputation system isn't that difficult, computationally complex, or requires that much processing power.
Why do you keep downvoting me when my KE ratio is good and has never been bad? Seems pretty hypocritical. Oh yeah, right now it might be down a lot because this platform became useless thanks to you, and I have started to dump all my HIVE on exchanges since you keep downvoting me for no reason.
I have a similar opinion to yours regarding KE, since many users may have a high KE but have contributed a lot to the chain, or have contributed ZERO. That difference, as you say, Marky, isn't reflected in the KE since it's a "number over a void."
While in a pinch, one can easily look at someone's profile and see what they do, what they "contribute," or what they do with their money, the KE points it out regardless...
I think it adds to the profile just by looking at it and perhaps drawing quick conclusions, but anyone familiar with the network can find a way to make sure that doesn't contribute to their numbers and avoid this new "control."
Request for Blacklist Removal
Dear @themarkymark,
I hope you're doing well. I recently discovered that my account @afzalqamar is on your blacklist. And I am receiving downvotes from @buildawhale on my content. I respectfully wanted to reach out and ask removing me from the list. I apologize for my mistakes. If you need any type of verification about me I am ready to give. I tried to contact you via discord but I was unable to do it.
I'm committed to following all platform guidelines going forward and avoiding any activities that may be seen as harmful or spammy.
I would deeply appreciate the removal of my account from the @buildawhale downvotes. Thank you for your time and the work you do for Hive.
Warm regards,
@afzalqamar
Before powering up a bit of hive so I can comment again, I noticed my KE was like 40k too, not that proud, but it is what it is.
Played ATM10 a couple of months ago and I remembered when you created that All The Mods server like 2-3 years ago, I got a good PC now so if you have free time set up a new one I'm down to play again haha (didn't get to the ATM star, finished with end-game mekanism and my friends stopped playing)
I think you would be the only one who would use a ATM10 server. I tried twice to start a Hive Minecraft server, and both times no one really used it. The second time absolutely no one, the first time a couple people initially tried it, but ultimately stopped getting used within a week.
Just don't think there is enough users to care. I suspect a vanilla minecraft server would get more use, albeit still very little, but that's a snoozefest.
Vanilla? No thanks, played it for like 4 years straight.
Did you play Nightreign? I think it's the best chance I have to get to play a Souls, last time I played a Souls was back when playing Sekiro lol
Yes I’m playing night reign.
This word "krampus" only reminds of one thing
"krampus slap"
@themarkymark Aka @buildawhale Aka @usainvote Aka @gogreenbuddy Aka @punkteam Can I ask why you keep downvoting my original content 🤔
As I said I will not reply until you answer my question I've been asking you for a long time 🤔
@steevc @crimsonclad @themarkymark @azircon please have a word with your friend 🙏🏾
He does the same to me, but never says why. I guess he tries to get rid of Minnows.
I think he owns a big percentage of this Blockchain 🤔 and the account is tied to blocktrades and also steevc has quite a bit of power here to 🤔
If you have Instagram we can speak freely in private @kgakakillerg
That's the reason why I no longer believe in the HIVE blockchain after all these years. Less and less people use it thanks to a handful of whales.
💯 I can not disagree I've been here for a long time as well and it's so disappointing to see what is happening
More people are leaving and the only people joining are people who are selling what ever they make 😂
I might think about buying some Hive again when it's £0.01 or cheaper 😂 @tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 27/47) Liquid rewards.