Exactly!
This is 'the misunderstanding of capitalism'
Not some false dichotomy that the only 2 perceivable forms of economic systems are capitalism or socialism. Though I often see people using both those terms with no general understanding of either.
Side thought. I was in the U.S. military for a number of years and many in the military would be prepared to fight you over their hatred of "communism" and defense of "capitalism" all the while completely enthralled by the system of being in the military. I remember my captain explaining to me when I got out how
"difficult the real world is, and how much better and more secure the military was"
This is when I asked him if he liked communism. He got a bit angry and instantly replied he did not.
I said, sir, the U.S. military is communism.
(it's actually not entirely communism in how communism was envisioned. However, and most ironically, it is entirely the embodiment of what people, especially in the military, believe communism to be)
Thank you for your reply. I agree completely. The real world is, and never has been, the digital formulation of the fanatic: black vs white, right vs left, capitalism vs socialism, freedom vs authoritarianism, etc. All societies have elements of all ideologies in varying degrees. Reality is analogue, but ideas are digital. We need to adjust our ideals to reality, rather than attempt change reality to our ideals.
Beautifully put! You just went a bit deeper to the root of the problem :). I completely agree about shifting ideals! It seems though our economic systems of present have supplanted our religious systems of old. Full of dogma, unreason, and emotional attachment to beliefs. I have been trying for years to find the appropriate response. Sometimes I try logical appeals (as the party is purporting to use logic to defend their position) this is usually met with fallacies or anger. Then I try emotional appeals (while describing the benefits to them and their family an alternative systems would provide). Ironically I haven't met anyone who doesn't like what I describe, but they get 'logically' ridiculed and called "utopic". So, I'm not sure why I continue attempting when I see posts like this. As if this time would be different (we may see)...
I think the realm of discussion needs to constantly return to the complexity of reality. Oftentimes, the discussions solely remain in the realm of pure ideals or specific anecdotes in modern arguments.
When I was a young, impudent, callous ideologue, I would never consider practicality of my zealotry in establishing an idealistic system. It is far too easy to be lost in the realm of ideas because ideas are like mathematics: with enough foundational assumptions, I can logically prove any situation and solve any problems. Similarly, there are those who solely focus on specific, anecdotal cases to justify their arguments. Unfortunately, anecdotes may serve as an objection to an argument, but are poor vehicles in establishing a general perspective.
I think man has a tendency to consider himself infallible. Observation of reality does not provide such assumption, and the systems a fallible being creates will also be fallible. I am surprised that many would prefer a mechanical system to rule over them, rather than fellow human beings. Those who want an immutable system, whether capitalist or communist, would balk at the idea of settling disputes in front of a computer, rather than a human judge. Ideologic arguments reduce life to a set of rules and devitalizes man to a logic machine.
Do we throw the stone at the adulteress? Who among us is sinless? I think man needs to consider his own fallibility and the complexity of reality. Mathematics are simple, life is complex. For the most part, libertarians and capitalists are ethical people; it is their grounded ethics that leave them blind to failures in their ideology and flaws in others. They impute their values onto others who may or may not share their moral suppositions. In their perception bias, they fail to observe the negative character of reality and flaws in men.
Beautiful!
I absolutely agree, there is a term in organizational theory now that is called "deliberately developmental" Which highlights this fallibility and deliberately designs systems to evolve with new information. Also, a system called Holocracy which builds this fundamental lacking in human ideology into the system to compensate for our imperfections, and using our differences, diversity and unknowing as tools to design yet better systems for ourselves and our world.
It is slightly absurd to think that a system designed hundreds of years ago in a paradigm so vastly different than the one we are in today still dominates our societies. Capitalism will soon fall to the history books and remote locations of our world. That, or we'll soon become extinct... Either way, capitalism won't last!
Completely agree. In fact, I would say that most all people (possibly everyone) are ethical people, generally nice as well (as long as their needs are met). People only resort to aggressive and violent behaviours when certain needs are not being met...