@Themarkymark is the most hated account on Hive 😂
You are replacing him. I have discussed downvotes with him and he did not flag me. Hurt discusses them with you and you spam him. You force their hands.
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Marky can be reasonable. There is just way too much crap for him to be able to respond to everything.
I think the request people have for me to leave a comment on what I downvote is reasonable if there was not an insane amount of "abuse" on chain right now.
People can lobby me on my posts and sometimes I remove the downvotes it is just rare for people to have a good case for what they are doing.
Witnesses should regularly post when they downvote people to show what they think is wrong.
Marky could do this to educate the authors without having to give personalized explanations.
If we make lists of causes, we might not even get 20 reasons, and there might be a lot of overlap.
I also agree, but the amount of flags Marky flies makes the prospect of repeatedly stating a reason daunting, even if just selecting from a list. He'd also be spamming the chain with automated comment, perhaps becoming the monster he seeks to slay.
Thanks!
I believe it's better to regularly publish posts with examples of downvotes, explaining what was wrong with them, as educational material. Instead of just replying or leaving comments.
If the most important figures on the network did this, things would be much easier.
I agree with this. Thank you as always for sharing your perspectives and being bold. There is a lot of courage that both you have.
@valued-customer this is directed at you as well.
If I did not have you guys it would take me a lot longer to put all the pieces together.
Forthright discussion is truly one of the most valuable things we can have, and I am happy to benefit from it as well. Diego just cut to how the matter can best be handled and enable folks to understand why they might earn DV's. I might have never thought of it.
Ideas are rarely solely our own. Need to talk to other people to learn from them. Diego teaches me a lot even if he doesn't mean to lol
See https://peakd.com/life/@themarkymark/re-diegoloco-t8gp9d
Yea I agree. I think a more human approach will go a long way!
Probably will take some work to make this the norm but it at least feels like we are heading in the right direction.
I don't comment for one reason.
The outcome is always the same.
They are a victim, I am an asshole.
If you explain why, in some cases you can achieve a change in behavior.
Let me give you a real example: Hurtlocker gave some negative votes in the Rising Star community a while ago.
The Rising Star Discord chat discussed it.
What I mean is that if downvotes are going to be discussed, the reasons can also be addressed, especially if an explanation is provided.
It's simple: "This in particular bothered me." And you usually have a valid reason for giving the downvote.
I can affirm that even when I did give him reason to DV me, he refrained and simply pointed out the injury I had done him. He hasn't ever DV'd me despite my rather strident discussion that strayed into insuperable comment at least once.
I see that as reasonable. If people are abusive there is a way on Hive to suppress that abuse, DVs. It doesn't do much against spam or scams, because those aren't seeking author rewards which is what DVs primarily impact. It works well to prevent plagiarism and AI socks because those are seeking rewards from posting.
However, posts that aren't spam, scams, plagiarism and AI shouldn't be flagged. If someone stops being abusive, they stop justifying DVs. DVs can be abusive just as much as the things that justify DVs, and you and Marky need to tread delicately to prevent yourselves becoming just as abusive as the abuse you do work so hard to stop. I see that Marky does not tread so delicately, and there are others that don't even try. There are financial reasons that DVs are abused, and I have pointed out to Marky his indelicacy lends the appearance that suggests he is participating in that pecuniary scheme for that indirect profit. I have found him to discuss forthrightly and reasonably, even to tolerate my excessive verbosity with admirable restraint that compelled me to sincerely apologize to him once. After I realized my actions had become abusive I radically reformed. While I vehemently disagree with him about some things, mostly our views on financialization and it's impact on Hive, I have sought to only speak to him with respect he deserves, and only address our disagreement when it was immediately relevant, and that isn't often. We know each other's views on these matters, and belaboring him about it won't change that.
Anyway, it isn't directly financially rewarding to suppress abuse on Hive (except to HW), but for substantially staked accounts it is indirectly so, because the more stake an account has, the more rewards they can extract. Whales extract >90% of the rewards from the pool, and DVs send rewards that would go to other creators to the pool where whales extract most of them. This has the inevitable effect of centralizing stake, which further deranges governance, curation, marketing, and on and on.
No one that can do anything about it wants to hear it, so I don't often bring it up, but it's relevant to you because you're suppressing abuse and should well understand the downstream effects you have so that you can ensure the effects you are responsible for are things you honestly respect yourself for, or at least have that ability.
Frankly, I think that reaching out to KillerG is beyond respectable, it's compassionate. I have just pointed out to him in another comment that his treatment of you is outrageous, dehumanizing, and abusive, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and demonstrating to all and sundry that the flags on his abusive spam are justified. FFS, you even upvoted him for saying it was a waste of time to talk to you! It's hard to imagine anyone finding you at at fault here, or him justified.
This Whale Cabal thing has come up quite a bit. I do not know what that theory is based on but I think it would be better for me to write a blog post about it and see what people think.
I know what you are saying about downvotes can be used abusively. I try to avoid it.
But also, remember, whales are just people. Like we respond to incentives like everyone else.
If things happen that make people think there is a Cabal you are really wanting a change in the incentive structures to make us seem less coordinated. Most whales are in the similar position so it makes sense we do a lot of the same things.
I would also say, Whales treat me with respect and smaller accounts taunt me all the time. Seems like more often than not people want to instigate something or want to be the victim.
Just remember, this is the internet. People can fake who they are. I am a pretty real person so it is hard not to at least feal for where I am coming from. But I have had a lot of people steal from me on HIVE. None of them were whales. And I am not talking about Bro either. Exclude the bro token fiasco and a lot of people have stole money from me over the years. Usually I think that is out of the idea that I have too much and it is ok to steal because I do not deserve to have wealth while someone starves. If I gave money to every poor person I know I would be in debt in less than 24 hours. 🤷♂
~36 whales have maintained a bare majority of stake since Steem advented in 2016 (excluding the Founder's stake, that did not vote witnesses until Sun bought it) and governed the platform by choosing the witnesses. It seems unlikely that folks with substantial stake would just ignore their common interests, and the coordination of their actions is difficult to deny has produced mutually beneficial results. I am amazed at the maintenance of their majority in such a tight range, >50% and <51% of staked hive.
The takeover of Steem was a vivid example of the dilemma they face. Their control of governance of the platform derives from their majority of stake. It's a plutocracy, pure and simple. Because it's a plutocracy the only thing that is required to take over is more money, which is what happened to Steem. Hive is just as vulnerable as Steem. There are no mitigating metrics whatsoever.
The only thing that protects the whales from being replaced on Hive as they were on Steem is that investors aren't interested in unproductive investments, so they make the platform unproductive. Were this community to grow rapidly and the token price to rise quickly attention would be attracted from pockets deep enough to take control of the platform.
In early 2017 this was happening. Thousands of influential creators came and started bringing their audiences with them. This was a disastrous threat to the governing whales. Mass downvoting drove the new users off the platform, but even that didn't save Steem, and Sun took it over. So, downvoting folks until they leave has been continued, and today less than 1% of users that come here stay here. We have hit a sweet spot of ~5k users that is able to provide the maximum ROI for the whales, but doesn't threaten to attract outside investment that could replace them as plutocrats.
This can't continue forever, and the DHF is being mined as rapidly as possible. Too rapidly, causing the token price to crash, and threatening the whole platform. We'll see if BT reins it in, or if he just continues to bleed the DHF as fast as he can.
This is my understanding of the Cabal.
I exposed my keys once and lost 400 liquid Hive I had on hand, but Someguy helped me to recover my account and end the problem. I doubt that's what you're referring to. Taxation is theft - but you don't agree DV's are taxation, so you're not talking about DV's. I dunno how else people could steal on Hive.
You, like everyone else, have a duty to be prudent and manage your stake well. I'm sure a lot of people come with their hands out, and that it gets old. Because I have experienced thefts of my property IRL I have sought to manage goodwill instead of money, because goodwill can't be stolen, taxed, inflated away, or rot. So far I have succeeded beyond my expectations. It's less simple than I'd hoped, but it's been a very beneficial process. There's only one way for me to get goodwill and that's by doing good things for good people, and that has had a very good affect on me.
Sometimes it is good to let a good comment to just marinate in its own awesomeness 😊
This is a good comment so I will let it do it's thing.
Cheers!
I hope my cabal theory is useful to your understanding, as your comment expressed to me interest in why the subject comes up. I think the management of speech and stake is a natural outgrowth of the prudential diligence of folks managing substantial stake, whom perhaps at times do things just because they can more than from diabolical malevolence. We none of us have a Hive governance manual, but must fumble up our best guesses as we go.
Many folks take their financial circumstances very personally, ascribing to any and all that don't enrich them to the degree they seek as the darkest evil, but we don't all graduate, and some of us may have to repeat a class to well understand the material (pun intended).
Happy New Year!
Yea I actually experience this in real life all the time. Many people lose money in the stock market so they write it off it as a corrupt game. I will tell them I do pretty well but do not recommend people do what I do. Then the person I am talking to will usually tell me I am going to lose all my money one day or start telling me how to invest my money. Very strange lol