I am a pretty argumentative person from time to time and I tended to play Devil's Advocate a lot in my life. It isn't always a fun position to take but often, a necessary one considering that depending on situation, some very bad ideas can get the go ahead due to agendas and hopes.
For example, a company I was once in the management team of was planning to merge with another company to gain access to a client base they had. The deal presented by the owners was risky on paper considering the costs involved but doable.
However, after meeting with the other management team, I spoke up against the deal due to a few warning signs I got from the people involved. I stated my case, ran some scenarios and potential predictions as to how it was likely to turn out. I was literally shouted down because popular opinion was to go ahead.
The owners were quite arrogant people and other managers generally followed their lead so, it went ahead because the potential 'prize' made them blind to the warning signs I presented.The fact that this was their first deal of this type meant they really wanted it to work out, rather than cut their losses. It cost them dearly and they almost lost the company they had worked hard for.
In this particular case I was pretty much right but, Devil's Advocate doesn't actually require it as the role is to take alternative paths that are against popular opinion. There are advantages of listening to incorrect or unlikely information as, it can lead to a solidification of position but at the very least, it makes a person reconsider their held/favorable position, just to make sure. However, this is only possible when one is open and curious enough to listen, think and play in the unlikely.
Unfortunately, these people are becoming rarer in society as more move toward echo chambers and surround themselves with confirmation bias that makes them feel that their position is correct. When most people feel correct, they don't check if they are wrong because well, they feel correct. It doesn't mean they are of course because they very rarely factor in the blindness associated with wanting certain outcomes.
This is why so many people get scammed in chats, they are looking at the payoff and not paying attention to the scam, identical to the scenario I gave above with the owners. A type of greed blindness where the greed is in getting what one wants in the way they have envisaged it. However, they do not see it this way as they are in the middle of the situation with a preferred outcome believing that they are thinking and acting well.
As people get more emotionally insecure, it is getting less interesting to converse with them as rather than having a good discussion, one has to tiptoe around topics so as not to upset the rickety apple cart of their mind and risk bruising their often fragile egos. Rather than discuss at depth, nothing of consequence really gets touched upon so as to avoid outbursts and hurt feelings. Everyone wants to be in a safe zone.
This results in fragility of position as people, groups, cultures, nations end up in positions where there is no longer a Devil to present the alternative possibilities. The Devil Advocates are more and more being taught their lessons and being 'weeded out' of mainstream media, universities and public discourse. A vital resource is being lost.
Many people avoid listening to things they don't agree with because they feel it threatens their identity. What happens to a religious zealot who hears an argument that makes them no longer believers, or an atheist who is somehow convinced there is a god? Not many people enjoy being wrong, Even if they are better off for finding out better information. So, most avoid scenarios where they may hear they are wrong.
When most people read, watch or listen to information, they aren't looking to find out new, they are looking to see if either they are correct or, the source is wrong. People tend to want to feel smart and superior so will look for areas that are going to allow for this. When they come across a supportive argument, they clap and say "I agree!" And when they are confident that the source is wrong, they want to school them or mock them for their position.
These areas are relatively boring for the curios though as, what is the point? The more interesting conversations are in the areas of uncertainty, the times more questions are required, review, reflection, deeper thought and the best is when the other side shares the same curiosity. It isn't a competition to see who is right or a race to the correct answer, it is cooperation to find out and improve regardless of the starting points. Conceding 'defeat' in this type of discussion isn't a loss, it is a gain.
But it is the loss that people concern themselves with, the loss of their identity, their thoughts and feeling that what they know is who they are and once attached, they do not want to let go. I will end this with a quote I got in a comment not so long back which I think is a brilliant reflection.
For some reason, I AM my thoughts & feelings. When my thoughts change (and they always do because I'm a human) that ONE of me died... Each one of 'me' wants to be alive as long as possible. Even if he knows he's dragging all the other 'me' down, even himself. - @ahmadmanga
Do you see the fragmentation we as humans suffer, the conflict in our very selves? Do you understand why trying to avoid conflict in the world is a losing game? The solution is to be curious, question and work together to find solutions. At least from a human society perspective, there is likely nothing that is unsolvable given enough thought, trial and reflection.
The Devil's Advocates have their place too, including the ones we hold inside us; do not kill them all.
Taraz
[ a Steem original ]
Sadly, you're right about this.
I agree. ;)
An opinion is just an opinion with no weight until an action is connected to it.
There is no right or wrong opinion and people need to get over themselves as far as it needing to be defended. They seem to be confused between fact and opinion.
As long as people get their opinion from some else we will continue to go down this path. And people have to defend the opinion because it directly becomes obvious that they took the opinion of someone else and its not the opinion they are defending but their integrity.
I think that this is also why people are becoming less able to argue because for the most part, their arguments are shallow reiterations of other's words. they haven't thought about them enough themselves. If they had, they would be willing to think more to clarify further.
or god forbid alter their opinion.
Its going on 5 am. I started yesterday at 10 am with that voice chat in that Bangladesh discord. every one there has under 100 SP. They have great sprite with just a little more knowledge then I did when I started :) I have not read so much in years. I am going to fall out of this chair i just said I didn't have. I'll finish reading your post when I get up. Talk to you latter buddy
I agree with people being comfortable in echo chambers as I am guilty of that as well. I try to get differentire opinions, but people don't reciprocate so I just dropped it
Change the people you speak with.
Some people can't handle constructive criticism. And working in a company, both sides should be presented and heard. People had became emotionally vulnerable nowdays that if you say something they take it against you.
People avoid discussions to avoid having to put up with emotional people as it is too draining and pointless to converse.
It requires high self-esteem to accept conflict and be willing to change one’s thoughts. Few are able to reflect on how the change of their thoughts or feelings feels like. @ahmadmanga stated it wisely. Unlike him many people are unaware of how their thoughts and feelings contribute to their perceived Identities which make them resist change even if they proved wrong. On the other hand, People belive that their thoughts and opinions dectates how worthy they are, that is why they can’t accept them being wrong and remain in state of irrational self-righteousness.
Unlike him many people are unaware of how their thoughts and feelings contribute to their perceived Identities which make them resist change even if they proved wrong.
Many just double down and then behave badly hoping the other will walk away and they can feign victory.
The topic should be 'the extinction of the Devils advocate'. It is a crime in today's World to take an unpopular opinion among a group; it's the fastest way to be ostracized
I see you around quite a bit and I am more inclined then not to like your commentary. That said, this particular comment I find rather ironic considering how much time you spend on FP where people will cut people to shreds for opposing views.
What is FP?
Family Protection
Thanks. Thought it was short for FacePuke.
Hehehe. I imagine a lot of things that come to mind with an open ended meaning for FP
.....I've seen a couple articles written over there though that were so bad you could describe it that way. lol.
@sunlit7 am Sorry if my presence offends you.
We all have our views on issues, they remain just that - opinions
I have personally lost quite a few friends for my views
FP has a lot of actual experiences, you can understand if people get emotional over dissenting comments. I personally can tolerate people that don't agree with me, but I have come to understand that we're all made different
Morning friend
I wondered where all the people had gone...😂
...this explains it..
The trick is not to be an ostrich in the first place and join the group :D
You can't help which country you were born in...
And inevitably, the poor devils advocate will be straw manned, and accused by each of two opposing groups of belonging to the other.
Looking for the truth is a lonely pursuit. :(
And because of the general level of ability to pick the fallacy, the majority will support the fallacious argument.
This path doesn't lead anywhere good.
The dreamkillers keep us all on the ground but let us take the occasional leap. Without them, we float higher and fall further.
I think it is crushing many people's willingness to attempt to think differently as they know that to question is to take flack.
Fun fact: Did you know that some police forces use "gainsayers" (I don't know if that is the exact term they would use... but you get the drill). They are specifically added to criminal investigations to avoid tunnel vision by the investigative team. When it was introduced in the Netherlands, "gainsayers" were nervous that everyone would start hating them and they would become the outsiders soon. None of that happened. They have a special purpose and it is embraced. Ironically, "devil's advicates" that don't have an official job description as gainsayer will have a very hard time in those organisations.
Strange isn't it? The people who may be naturals at it are not allowed to practice it.
Why is it that people in power can't deal with criticism?
Because the people who put them there can't either.
We're doomed!
When you see the results of playing devils advocate, I have a seat here next to me that you can sit on, so we don't get lonely..
😂😂
I am guessing there are flames close by?
No need for central heating...
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Given our current political climate I have found what I consider to be the most solvable answer to those suffering from severe Trump Derangement Syndrome: this too will pass. They literally are tormenting themselves, there's nothing else you can really say to them that allows them a concrete solvable answer. What really kills me is when I am in a deep discussion with someone, (on another blog I blog on, things don't get to that depth here like a live active blog) and they respond back to me that they have presented their argument so there will be no need to respond back. If they didn't want to talk about it what are they doing on a blog. Of course I never pay any heed to them for all the reasons you have stated above.
So many are conflicted in their various positions that if you pay attention, you will see them realise while they are speaking that they are wrong. But, it doesn't stop them continuing.
Hi taraz. Information is key and is wise to have both sides in order to make an informative decision. One has to take emotion out of things to come to the correct decision. Very few can do this and the new generation of greedy individuals will test lots of companies.
It is going to be interesting to see if the new workforce will be innovative or rely on remakes of what has come before and expect to be paid as innovators.
You got a 31.99% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @tarazkp!
"Many people avoid listening to things they don't agree with because they feel it threatens their identity"
Unfortunately they only seek to confirm their prejudices not to make the effort to think for themselves and find the real.