I don't know if it is broken, but I do know, it is not doing what it is supposed to. A ten cent spread, does not, a stable coin make.
And @arcange, this is not a crack at you, because I know the funds are going to @hbdstabilizer, your name is simply the one on the current proposal. I still love you man 🤗.
But, what I, and probably about 2000 other people aren't loving right now, is the steady decline in the price of HBD. Why is it still going down? As I am writing this, it has dropped below $0.92 USD. To me, that doesn't seem very stable. What exactly does this stabilizer even do? It receives almost 4 times the funding as every other active passing proposal combined!
To the tune of 12,000 HBD a day. Not including the funds from the ten comment threads. In fact, the @hbdstabilizer account has over 350,000 staked HIVE. Why is it staked? Shouldn't it be unstaked entirely and added back to the DHF like the initial proposal said it would do? Questions, questions, don't worry, I'll ask the hard ones.
Here is a quick breakdown from @smooth's original proposal, which some people are voting for its current descendants. You can check my voting history, I've never put my name on it, because I've always felt it was unnecessary to try and manipulate the price of a thing.
However, I can't say it hasn't helped to a small degree, but I think the peg should be handled differently and I will get into that further on in the post. Here's the main four points the stabilizer makes:
- Examine the HBD price.
- If in range, send HBD back to the DHF.
- If price is high, buy HIVE with the HBD, and send to the DHF.
- If price is low, convert HBD to HIVE via 3.5 day internal conversion within the wallet, buy HBD with said HIVE, then send it back to the DHF.
Problem #1
 |  |
|---|
If you are going to try and create a stable coin, you have to have enough gumption to grow the balls to be in every market that it is available, and be the most active buyer/seller of your coin. Or, at least, pay someone to do it. Luckily, (and at the same time, sadly,) the only place to buy or sell HBD outside of the Hive ecosystem, is UpBit.
Problem #2
One would think, after almost 6 years in existence, that such a prominent chain would have itself on other major exchanges like Binance, Coinbase or even Kraken. To me, that is a bit of a problem. Why aren't we listing on major exchanges? Is it because of them being centralized entities? Are we hiding something? Is our pride too great that we won't pay a little fee, like every other major or minor cryptocurrency listed, to get us on there?
Something is off about that, I've been having trouble trying to grasp it since I plugged in to the financial side of this chain. And don't waste your time in the comments if you try to rattle off some bullshit about soft forks and nodes, because other blockchains do it consistently. Why aren't we?
Problem #3
This is the one that really makes no sense whatsoever to me. The 4th clause in the proposal that is supposed to stabilize HBD. How does 'converting' HBD into HIVE, then buying back the HBD with HIVE really do anything at all? Seriously, all you did was sell the HBD slowly for HIVE and then bought it right back. Hang on, I'll give you this paper dollar for 4 quarters and in 3 days, come buy back the quarters from me. The fuck.
You do realize, that the price of HIVE, is ported in from exchanges outside of the Hive ecosystem and is merely reflected in the wallets? Nowhere on Hive, will you find any kind of exchange that helps to dictate the price. Hive-Engine might have a very small impact, but nowhere near the true outer pressure. And, the same goes for HBD. The only reason it is worth just over ninety cents now, is because UpBit says so. Not Hive.
Problem #4
Which brings me to the final problem of the HBD stabilizer (barring the comment thread, which is a whole different beast), the staked HIVE in the account. As part of the proposal, ALL HIVE and HBD is supposed to be sent back to the DHF. So, why is there enough HIVE staked there to easily attack UpBit and correct the price? In fact, there is enough there (because of the low volume - just over $3500) to do it ten times over!
My Concern
What the fuck is the HBD stabilizer even doing other than pillaging the reward pool by 'taking' from real authors or creators with those comments every day? If it was a tighter spread on the price, I wouldn't care one bit and say it was working, but it's not. It's broken.
Beautiful thing about Hive, you can vote on whatever post or comment you want, you can even downvote them if you wish. You don't have to vote for a proposal or you can. You don't have to vote for a specific witness, or you can. At least 'Value Plan' was trying to get Hive in people's line of sight. I just don't see how this proposal really does anything. We should at least have a trusted representative on UpBit doing what needs to be done.
My biggest concern is that the pride (and prejudice?) around here, is what will be the ultimate fall of Hive. How many women witnesses do you see in the top 20? 50? 100??? How many ethnicities? (I don't see a single street cred mutha fukka up there anywhere.)
Culture. It's almost like we're in ancient Egypt and the rest of the cryptoverse is riding hoverboards to El Salvador. So what is the underlying cause? Is it fear? Fear of losing control and a steady income? Greed does that too. Fear of being noticed and actually having hundreds of thousands of real people here, that might not agree with some antiquated ideologies or want to take Hive in a different direction? I mean, considering the history, If I was a 'big investor', I would bet on a different horse.
#rantover. I wouldn't bring any of this to light if I didn't love this place and care about its future. I mean, Hive as a whole. Not somebody's personal ambitions or what one or two large stakeholders have for a vision of this place. Just being me and doing what I do. As such, let me remind you to REMEMBER TO BE YOU! I always am, because someone has to be me.
For more amazing ideas and rants, simply comment below! Though, ideas aren't usually free. Which reminds me, I am still missing my payments for a few of those. Y'all need to square up and pay this piper.
because I can
So Can WE
Vote Witty
Is Voting #WITNESSES difficult?Let me do it for you!
Set Witty as your --->PROXY VOTER!<---
HBD has been pretty stablish on the internal market: https://hivedex.io/hbd-health
But isn't the price reflected from external markets?
No, you're confusing it with the price feed, which is used to calculate the HBD/HIVE conversion rate.
We’ve seen the internal price slip a dime also. Not as often as the main market cap average we see do so almost 90% of told be .95 on average, but as indeed saw internal market be off multiple times past months. The devs proclaim HBD will be the Bitcoin networks stable coin soon, it’s laughable. I love Hive but no HBD peg is not going to survive next couple years. Maybe the tiny volume helps us avoid a total collapse the way it usually does down but it is not very stable and the peg is not dependable long term. the way HBD is promoted by many here as a non risk soon to be largely used by many venders is ridiculous and laughable. It has had its place but these nonsensical fantasies while give us .069 cents and down 98% from its $3.35 high which we didn’t get close to this past cycle, is not in a good place and us who really love hive should be only admitting this so we can make changes, instead it’s just more “everything is great” 🙄
0_0 Wat?
And has been vigorously scammed, at least in Nigeria. Vendors aren't adopting a stablecoin that costs them money to turn into naira, yen, or dollars unless that decrease in margin is compensated by increased volume, and a platform with ~2k users isn't going to increase any vendors volume.
The staked HIVE is powered down at the maximum rate by the bot and then used for trading and returned to DHF.
I don't understand how it's built so much of a stake is all. even if I never powered down, I'd only have half that. Kinda jealous 😄
The stake comes from rewards on the daily hbd.funder comments. Half arrives as HP.
The 3.5 day delay strikes me as problematic for HBD peg maintenance. The fund should hold liquid HBD for that purpose, so it can react in a timely manner. Holding the HBD in an interest bearing account strikes me as revealing the true interests of the management of the fund, that getting some interest on the holdings is more important than taking action to maintain the peg which is what the fund is for, has to wait >3 days to unstake the HBD to react. It shows there's less concern over the peg than there is to rake in interest, and further centralize stake by keeping it away from creators.
The HBD funder comments are just a scam. There is no need for them, except to ease the maximization of curation rewards of the upvoters. It's insulting TBH, and really shows the level of concern for the strength of the platform of the voters on those comments to be negligible. The reason for curation rewards is stated in the original white paper to be to incentivize curation of quality content, and the HBDfunder comments enable maximizing curation rewards with no effort and no curation. Worst of all no creators are rewarded for their content, which directly reduces marketing that content does, devalues creation, and the very purpose of the platform.
HF28 made it even easier maximize curation rewards without curating a single post by reducing the number of votes to deplete VP to zero. Frankly, I am deeply dismayed by the raw avarice and lack of good faith revealed by the HBDfunder scam. Was it your idea?
There is no HDB in an interest bearing account having to do with the stabilizer. The stabilizer receives it, converts it if appropriate, uses it for trading if appropriate, and then sends it back when the price does not provide any opportunity to exchange or trade. Nothing is held.
Opinions obviously differ on the merits of voting for hbd.funder comments vs other posts. I'm not going to try to convince you. I don't think it was was my idea, but I don't entirely remember.
Well, it has been stated that there is. Enginewitty discussed it in the OP.
By 'trading if appropriate' are you referring here to maintaining the peg?
So the HBDfunder comments don't provide funds that are staked and currently exceed 380k Hive?
I agree opinions differ regarding the merits of excluding authors from the rewards pool and concentrating stake in the accounts of whales. We can observe from current practices that whales prefer to centralize stake in their wallets, and fuck everybody else, the platform, and the world can go to hell.
I don't think it will matter soon, since there won't be any people here at all, but only AI socks you guys will play against each other in a game to see who can extract the most tokens while maintaining the pretense Hive is still an actual social media platform. Good luck with that. I hope you win all the Hive tokens in the world and clutch them to your chest in adoring fervor, all alone in your bunker deep underground in complete solitude. What an amazing victory that will be for you!
People are vastly more valuable than tokens. Social media - people talking to one another - has become the largest sector in global financial markets in ~10 years. Not cryptocurrency. Not mining, manufacturing, or space. People talking. Hive had a chance to be the next step in advancing social media tech, but you guys are turning it into a token mine to play against a couple dozen others instead.
GG no re.
Yes, if the market HBD price is below $1, it will attempt to buy HBD or convert and if the price is above $1 it will attempt to sell HBD. If this can't be done, the tokens being held (whether HIVE or HBD) are returned.
As for interest, you seem to be confusing staked HIVE with HBD bearing interest (which would be a savings account). The stabilizer neither ever stakes HIVE nor ever places HBD into a savings account. Any staked HIVE which is received is powered down at the maximum possible rate, used for trading (peg maintenance) and returned.
Voted for visibility.
A bit more explanation and/or a post perhaps will be helpful @smooth
The old posts by me explain it.
The stabilizer doesn't do outside arbitrage, the internal price is near par.
Magi is gonna have to take us away, we will never moon by paying to be liquid on cex's.
Too many interests lined up against us, imo.
What crypto has mooned without one?
Probably none.
Nor without backing by the irl cabal.
Have we lost the plot?
Death to the banks?
Not sure that's in the whitepaper for Hive, but I like it. 😁 And by no means am I vouching for pure centralization of Hive. What I am leaning towards, is omelets and lemonade.
I think the main reason we won't moon anytime soon is because being a Whale on here is kind of lame right now.
Lots of current users could be whales on HIVE but they don’t want to power up. 🤷♂️
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Make Being a Whale Great Again is my platform. My platform is unique and the mantra was only inspired by my own genius 🤣
Why would they? Can get it a lot cheaper in 6 months or 12 months most likely based on the longterm trend. Not a 100% sure thing but definitely more likely based on this pattern we’ve seen for years now.
Just like deflation , why buy something if it will be cheaper in a year, makes more sense to wait if believed we’ll see another 50% dip next year & the longterm action points to this continuing.id say 80% plus solid chance we are 30% plus lower than .074 in 6-12 months. At least at a point during this period. If a person has 15K to buy, today they can buy approx 205K HP. But if they wait given trend it can go to 300K easily or 350K or 400K plus. Nothing is certain, but it’s such a strong possibility its a reason we aren’t seeing many people do this now.
You can buy hive, stockpile it, and not put it into HP. A good pump can double the profit rate obtained from curing throughout the year.
There has really never been much of ANY push for this chain to be anything other than the cash cow it is for a select few. The Leo side and a couple games are the only thing bringing outside eyes in. Otherwise it is just this echo chamber of a couple K lost souls banging our heads against the wall of "votes" hoping for one of those select few to ever so graciously give up a tiny bit of the large sums they rake in regularly. This is not new, look at the "witnesses" who tend to be the same exact ones recurrently and have done what? Honestly I'm here still just so my family can see my posts.
I like the diary effect it has, no lie. I'm often showing them my joy in their progress (my family) by putting them out there or on here or whatever. At least here, I know it'll be seen by a few and not ghosted by some stupid algorithm that only wants to show politics or tits. Can't say I don't like one of those though either !LOLZ !PIMP !UNI
The diary aspect is the main use case for this place for anyone who isn't trying to rape and pillage the chain. The lack of algo is about the only saving grace here.
It’s indeed by design!
!PIZZA !LADY
Does make one wonder...I just hope it's not the death knell it appears to be.
!PIMP
No death… cmc hbd price is no diagnosis at all…
Lot of unused funds in that DHF... !PIMP !UNI !WINE
So I upvoted this post not because I agree with you but I think it’s an interesting conversation.
The way HBD is setup, anyone can run their own mini versions. HBD is backed by HIVE which is not a stable cryptocurrency so I would not expect it to stay at $1 consistently.
I’m not sure the amount of hive in smooths wallet means anything. HIVE is so cheap it’s not that much money.
Stabilizer doesnt act on upbit only internally the real price of hbd is comparing how much you sell in here for example here i am selling for 0.093 hive right now in this moment and if i i go to an exchange like binance I will sell hive for usdt by 0.0932 the ratio gives me 0.997 $ … people need to forget about upbit price or coinmarketcap…
The internal market price has dipped many times past months. Just not as often.
Yea but now is a bit stabilized last week wqs crazy, maybe i will post about the numbers
For now? That’s not stabilized, that’s just its continued up and than down unstable self.
The amount I was pointing out was the staked HIVE on the stabilizer account, which is far more than would be needed to truly peg it at a dollar on UpBit. Didn't look at smoothies wallet !LOLZ, just the stabilizer routes.
Well I called it smooth's wallet because of this -
I would need to find the post but I believe smooth has encouraged other people to run their own versions of HBD Stabilizer in the past to try to decentralize HBD Stabilizer.
HBD Stabilizer is funded through the DHF. If we have a particular question, I’m guessing smooth would be receptive and answer the question if the question is concise.
I’m all for accountability but I’m just not sure what the goal is here.
Like do we want that HP out of that account? Do we want HBD to stay at $1 everywhere all the time?
It initially said all HIVE and HBD so technically, it should be returned. As for a dollar everywhere? Is that not what makes a stablecoin?
I looked at the wallet and I am not sure where that HP came from. Is that HP from the DHF or the reward pool?
2nd part -
I was under the impression HBD Stabilizer is just about holding the internal price to peg.
I would think if we want HBD Stabilizer to cover all exchanges that would cost more from DHF.
I agree with him. These are things I've been saying for years.
I’m not convinced a lot of the “problems” on HIVE are consistent. I’m also not convinced any of our problems are systemic.
It’s possible to change things here if people have a lot of HP and people don’t attack other people’s character.
To me, everything is contextual based on the current market and what people are doing on chain today.
These things are true. However, how stake is wielded is determined by what incentives are given stakeholders. The incentive to accumulate stake to impact governance is both positive and negative, depending on how much you can accumulate. If you can accumulate enough to become a potent factor in a majority stake coalition, you have strong incentive to acquire it because that coalition can manage code to benefit them. If you can't accumulate that much stake, you have a disincentive to maximize your stake because governance will be managed by a coalition of stakeholders that are managing the platform to benefit themselves.
I disagree with this. Incentive structures are good for predicting the average person. They are not good at predicting unique or eccentric people.
This is, of course, true, but financial incentives drive financial decisions, and Hive is a plutocracy that requires only 50.00001% of stake to completely control governance. Generally speaking, folks with the most substantial stake will be those that best attain it, and best manage it, and their decisions when granted unitary control of a financial asset can be counted on to exercise maximal prudence. The first rule of investing is to preserve your capital, and only then to seek to increase it. I observe that Hive management has been exercised to prevent control of governance from being acquired by more capital than extant management can bring to the table by means of presenting the aspect of a poorly performing asset. Being listed only on Upbit, a shrinking user base, and a token declining in value all discourage investment from deep pockets.
They don't prevent unique individuals with significant assets from investing, as you exemplify, but they have to date discouraged investors that could easily buy all the Hive tokens being sold from doing so and seizing control of governance as Sun did Steem. Because the extant Hive management maintain control of governance solely because of their possession of a bare majority of stake there is not another mechanism that can prevent someone or group with more money than they have from taking over governance.
Perhaps there is some other factor I am missing. Can you think of anything else that prevents control of Hive from being purchased by someone or group with deeper pockets than extant management?
I really don’t think people need to discourage deep pockets from investing in HIVE. The genesis of HIVE was mostly because someone bought in without a large stake and without community support.
I think that’s the answer to your question.
HBD, as it is meant to be stabel should be integreated in as many ways as it is possible to be paying coin. Both inside and outside of the chain. We dont need to be on stocks (but it could be usefull) but we sure need badly to have many ways to use HBD to pay for real things.
There was a card someone was working on that I heard about on one of @buttcoins' shows, be curious to know what the progress is on that. THAT would be a game changer.
I believe you are referring to Hive Debit card.
Yes we used in our reception during the 3 month hive hub. Was working well. But just as the hive hub was ending my renter failed and it tossed my world into a tailspin. Spent the last 6 months getting everything back together.
Now the business is stabilized and I’m debating doing another trial with the hive debit card.
The hive debit card works though, and any hivean can utilize it if they have places that accept hive near them
This is a pointless project, and not a value to chain.
Interesting post! I would seem that DHF money could be better spent getting a listing like Coinbase instead of some of the initiatives we had in the past...
I would be interested in hearing some responses to the questions you raise.
Fingers crossed, eh? It might have to be a solo entity that does it, regardless what any consensus there is for it.
We can’t just throw money at exchanges to get listed. HIVE needs to meet their listing criteria.
The nature of HBD, its relationship to HIVE (HIVE debt), and its economy, are very problematic for me, and I very much appreciate you 'ranting' about some of these significantly glaring issues. I don't think that the Hive economy has been managed well at all. 😁🙏💚✨🤙
!ALIVE
!BBH
!PIZZA
!SLOTH
Depends what position you are in for the management !LOLZ Wouldn't an easy on/off ramp be widely accepted though? !PIMP !UNI
Well, yes, that's true. CEXes could potentially be a fair way to onboard, since they give crypto assets legitimacy in many people's eyes. Even having assets on sites like non-KYC.io can be very helpful, and also much more affordable. The most effective onboarding that I've seen has been via community-driven local initiatives that do community outreach, education, and onboarding of individuals and businesses, such as what @hivesucre accomplished in Venezuela. 😁🙏💚✨🤙
!ALIVE
!BBH
!LOLZ
!PIZZA
For whom?
Well, since we're all a part of this blockchain, for all of us I'd say. I'm talking about general economic sustainability and robustness over time. Things can't keep going in the direction that they've been going for much longer. At least having the HBD in the DHF removed from calculating the Hive Debt has seemingly helped a little bit, but the Hive Debt is still trending upward. 😁🙏💚✨🤙
Yes, that was one of the points I strove to make, that a principle common to institutions is that management undertakes to benefit themselves, and the institution and it's members tend to be less represented over time.
Yes, indeed, and I've seen that same pattern repeat with multitudes of examples. That is very much the feeling on Hive presently, even though I still love it, and I'm still here every day building and growing, both on my account, and for the We Are Alive Tribe. I just keep my eyes on the goal, regardless of the circumstances. 😁🙏💚✨🤙
HBD has never been stable (nor probably ever will be under the current paradigm). It should be pegged in the code...buy for $1 of HIVE, sell for $1 of HIVE, but nah, we let it float on the market and wonder why it fluctuates wildly. 🤷♂️ Perhaps it should just be done away with entirely...it has very little use other than to hodl for interest and it dilutes the market (the chain isn't really rolling in dough at this point other than what it prints out of thin air).
HBD is probably the only thing keeping HIVE from going to tenths of a dollar 😆 sad, but you're probably right. I think both of them should be listed in far more places, giving us the reach we're missing.
This suggests you know the answer to your question in the OP, regarding why we're not listed more widely. In fact, our history suggests Hive has deliberately been managed to avoid interest from outside investors with substantial non-hive stakes. 'We', the platform, as managed by the majority stakeholder(s) whom maintain the code by maintaining the consensus, don't manage the platform in order to attract the bright light of the Sun, but to benefit the majority of stake in Hive and it's holders. The Sun shining on Hive is the greatest threat to their continued enjoyment of their possession of control of the platform, as Steem demonstrated.
The fix for that is to deprive the majority stakeholders of their control, to introduce another metric for electing witnesses that prevents stake alone from enabling complete control of governance, because that defangs the power of external investors to simply buy complete control of governance. These incentives presently in the code produce the current paradigm of discouragement of bright light on Hive attracting investment, because that is the threat to extant majority stakeholders retaining complete control of the governance of the platform.
This is why the problem can't be fixed. The only solution to the threat the bright light of the Sun seizing unitary control of Hive as it did Steem is to eliminate the present unitary control of Hive possessed by the majority stakeholder(s) of Hive. This leaves Hive skulking in the shadows, where the Sun cannot shine, and that is what current management acts to maintain, because that is what maintains their ability to manage the platform for their benefit.
Interesting notion with the added governance layer. There are a lot of proxies to various accounts - my own even - of people that probably don't have as vetted an interest as you or I. Maybe have HP be worth half of a governing 'vote' (with a minimum of X staked to prove faith in the chain) and then maybe a minimum of X activity(ies) beyond only governance actions, to garner the other half of a vote giving everyone merely two halfs of 1 vote (30). I would even further that and drop it to 15 that people could vote for vs 30. I strongly feel that would shake things up and rearrange the place a bit too.
Residency requirements are entirely reasonable, and every US state used to have them for access to almost all welfare services, hunting and fishing licenses at the price for state residents, and etc. However, that alone might only delay the threat of complete unitary power over the witnesses until an attacker met the requirement. I think some other metric will be necessary to reflect the will of the Demos so that stake alone isn't able to seize unitary control of governance. Adding residency and activity requirements to witness voting can prevent the sudden seizure of governance by a well funded attacker, but wouldn't prevent the eventual seizure of power. As long as Hive remains a pure plutocracy all that is necessary to seize unitary control of governance is more money than 50% of the extant stake.
Some form of oracular verification a user/account is a unique human that votes a Hive stake must sort people and enable individuals to vote their preference - not only the weight of their wallet - is the only idea I can come up with that prevents nothing more than more than 50% of money voting for witnesses from taking - and keeping - totalitarian power over the platform.
Damn !PIMP speak on it!
#whatido
I hope you get some good answers to your questions here.
Sure would be nice, but then again, do we really want those answers?
I say yes. Sometimes the unknown is much worse than the dismal truth.
For me, it's the exchanges, why the hesitation?
Viva hbd
Are you fr??
Ok
An ai search told me listing on binance costs between 300k and a milion...
Exchange “fee” (commercial/marketing arrangements): ~$300K–$1M+
Liquidity + market maker services: ~$50K–$200K+
Legal & audit: ~$20K–$150K+
Token incentives/airdrops: Variable (can be significant)
Total comprehensive budget to successfully list and launch could therefore be over $1 million USD for many projects....
Which the DHF could easily fund to do.
Without significantly changing anything, except for the Rally car racing, and maybe some well-drilling. It is not the lack of funds to gain the listing, but the threat of listing attracting attention and nominal financial depth to wrest control of the platform from it's present management.
What else secures present management than the lack of competition?
You see clearly.
$PIZZA slices delivered:
tydynrain tipped enginewitty
@geneeverett(1/5) tipped @flemingfarm
Learn more at https://hive.pizza.