The use of entropy is pure conjecture and contradictory:
"Some would argue that entropy is proof that life is some kind of supernatural miracle (it is in a way, but not supernatural) because life apparently "beats" entropy as it becomes more ordered and complex over time. What they fail to take into account is that the universe is still very ordered with fairly low entropy at this juncture and with trillions of pockets of highly concentrated energy such as galaxies and the stars they contain. All of these can be seen as entropy engines and multipliers of probability."
The time scale of what is observable and what is measurable are so vastly different - light-years apart!
Life on earth and the corresponding "beating" entropy (over 100 years for humans and a few thousand years of recorded human history) cannot possibly be compared with "universe is still very ordered with fairly low entropy" which is calculated to be billions of light-years away from the "big-bang" which is a mathematical calculation based on a whole lot of assumptions.
Just like the flat earth theory - it could very well turn out to be miscalculated.
.
The reach of our (human race and civilizations) sensors were very limited in the large distances and in the miniature scales - in astronomy and in microscopic scales.
We did not discover the outer space, the deep oceans floors, the bacteria, the molecules until recent years - recent w.r.t. the light years in "big bang" scale.
That's why I used flat earth - and use calculate as in "miscalculated" to explain my point.
I challenge anyone to show me the numbers and calculations to back up any theory!
"big bang" was a theory based on very complex calculations published for peer review.
However, it remains a theory because there is no way to prove it or even validate it.
BTW - only mathematics and logic can be proven - not science.
I am a scientist, an engineer as well as someone who have analyzed and applied mathematics and logic in real world computer applications, so, I welcome any debate based on facts and calculations, mathematics and or logic.
People who proposed that illnesses were caused by invisible and tiny organisms have been similarly called: "ridiculous hypothesis of the currently mentality deranged " until they were proven to be correct years later and often after they were dead. So, don't be so quick to call anyone "ridiculous hypothesis of the currently mentality deranged as it could very well apply to you and I wrongly!"
I love your comments. And I think they're logical points to be made, but I still second @nonsqtr's assertion that flat earth theory is total horse spit.
Thanks for the comment - although you and @nonsqtr totally missed the point!
No one can or should judge from a different place and or time - That is my point.
To further expand on that point, space includes scale - we cannot and should not judge creatures of different scale especially a scale that is beyond our sensory range - ants and bacteria or molecules. Have you or @nonsqtr been able to examine the atom? the electron clouds in atoms? the strings in the string theory? ah ha, we have all seen animations of them but they were all made up and fictional - renditions by artists.
Without applying mathematics and logic to any theory, they are all theories - flat earth or big bang.
So, whether you support them or ridicule them, I'll say:
"Show me the money - mathematics and logic" behind or underneath your position or conclusion.
I am a scientists and I have used this approach to refute many claims, including "global warming" and have no one reply with facts, mathematics and logic.
So, flat earth was "fact" back in the days but we know now it is not true - because? We are in a different time and space!
If I were to tell people in the past (via time travel) about airplanes, electricity, mobile phones, microwave ovens, etc. - what will they say or do to me? ha?
No one can or should judge from a different place and or time - That is my point.
All the best!
I know. You noticed that I said "I see your view". I got it. My friend @nonsqtr was just having a hard time last night. Emotionally, and probably otherwise. If you'll read through his other posts, you'll see where he mentions some pretty serious health issues he deals with. I think he was hoping to approach this from a philosophical angle and was struggling to find the right words. He just wasn't in the right frame of mind for a debate, I think. (I'm sure he can speak for himself.) And yeah, you're totally right on your quibblings here. Or rather, it's I who has quibbled. (I just wanted to use that word, quibble, heh.) And honestly, as a scientist, you and I both know that you're more educated on the matter than the rest of us here. I, personally, don't try to argue things I'm not very educated on, and this is one. But we can all agree that it's a mind boggling subject of wonder for us. I think that's all he was trying to say.
I love debate and I love a good critic. I like that we can all chime in and have our say on anything and everything. But you get it. Play nice. We play nice over on this playground. Or you take your toys and you go home. Idk, more like we might throw rocks at you, I guess, hahaha. Anyway, thanks for the comment. You did give me a good angle to think on.
quib·ble
noun
"the only quibble about this book is the price"
synonyms: criticism, objection, complaint, protest, argument, exception, grumble, grouse, cavil;
More archaic
verb
I was using humor, self-depreciating humor on myself to show you kindness and levity. You seem to have missed that.
You might like this video in some way. This man was a Christian now turned Atheist (he has Christian children who he raises that way because it's how they choose to believe) and he's made it his mission to make his life an outreach to bridge the gap between Atheists and Christians so they might better understand one another. It's a very good video and an example of the ideal "civil" discussion that I wish we could all have on these matters. It would take us so much further. And it would help your cause so much more. You instantly turn others off from anything you might say when you come at them from anger. You might be surprised how many of us irreligous people are quite open and curious about our existence and would be open to ideas of any kind. It's all in the way you present them. And the way you're doing it just won't work. You can't shame or beat someone into believing your way. It just doesn't work. I don't mean to embarrass you or show any hatred towards you. This world needs peace more than anything. Please work with me for that. Everyday in everything we do it should be our aim, no matter what we believe.
No one can or should judge from a different place and or time:
Ah ... the amazing creature - ants:
Proverbs 6:6-8
Go to the ant, O sluggard, Observe her ways and be wise,
Proverbs 30:24
Four things are small on the earth, But they are exceedingly wise:
Proverbs 30:25
The ants are not a strong people, But they prepare their food in the summer;
"Ants: Creatures with “Character”
by F. Jaco Viljoen
A closer look at the world of ants, and the book of Proverbs, reveals a wealth of meaning you can apply to your life.
They are fascinating to watch while dragging an object many times their own body weight. Or they can be a terrible nuisance when you find a seemingly unending line of black insects trailing the kitchen counter. But most often, you walk right by them—destroying their highways, or even squashing them without noticing as they march down sidewalks.
While ants are everywhere, we generally think little of them. Yet the Bible tells us to study and learn from these insects: “Go to the ant…consider her ways, and be wise”"
source: https://rcg.org/youth/proverbs/0903-acwc.html
I've fully read your reply and respect your engagement. But you know what's sad about this way of communicating that you're using. You're coming about it to us from a place of anger. I'm saying that from my heart to as another human being. I respect your beliefs and your right to believe it. (You may not believe this because you haven't bothered to speak to me on a deeper level so that you truly understand, but I was raised charismatic christian and through my life have run the gamut of Christian denominations, and likely have spent over half my life in a church pew. I've even gone on missions before.) But you didn't bother to speak to me enough to find that out. I do hope you'll consider this point I'm making. I know your viewpoint within some reason akin to your own, because I've believed it myself before. I've even preached it. I respect you and your views. The problem here, is that you've not shown proper respect to me. Cutting my "intelligence" down by throwing definitions at me will not work in your favor to convince me of anything, no matter your viewpoint. And once again, I fully respect your right to your beliefs and consider them wholly valid. And I have christian friends and relatives who I am very close to in my life. I volunteer at a church once a week on Wednesdays as well. I also work at the local homeless shelter on holidays to serve means, which is run by Christian people and preaches a religious message. I really do wish we could share in our humanity and see the humanity in one another when having these arguments. When we fail to do that these things make me very sad. Truly, they do. I use humor in my life because I've been through a lot of trauma and it helps me add levity to my life and it's a non-pill form of self medicating. I don't wish you any harm or ill will, but if you wish to speak to me and convince me of anything, you'll first have to approach me with some level of humility and respect. As I believe the bible does say..."do unto others as you would have them do unto you". It also says to "turn the other cheek" on those who persecute you. This is why I'm not going to retaliate towards you in the same manner. I may not agree with your viewpoints but I respect your moral foundations. It's such a pity you can't see that. I hope that in some way you would. Please be well and peace to you.
You know, about missing the point... I think sometimes we get so caught up in our arguing over details that we do miss the larger point. The point he was trying to make here. We live in a damn beautiful, strange and wonderful and magnificent, and a lot of other pretty words for something beyond our wildest imagination and comprehension - universe. Let's all just sit back and marvel at it and feel how small we really are...together. Let's all shut up, don't argue about it, just admire. I wish we did that more. There's a place for science. Reality, I get that. But I think we were more trying to have some hippie church over here.