The tyranny of interstellar distances. A quote from one of the books in Dan Simmons's Hyperion Cantos where humans have populated a large part of our spiral arm of the galaxy, referring to the collapse of an interplanetary society after the sabotage of their versions of star-gates. Every planet suddenly in isolation, travelers marooned hundred of light years away from home with no means of returning.
As an unqualified cosmology enthusiast, this line has stuck with me since I first read the books in the 90s. I sometimes feel trapped on earth in spite of not having seen 99.9% of this beautiful rock, but more on this later.
I have often caught myself where it feels like the universe has some built-in mechanism to deliberately isolate and prevent possible civilizations from making contact. Thoughts like these are immediately quelled of course because there exists absolutely no evidence for it and it is impossible to prove.
The universe seems at times to be deterministic and to people with limited knowledge about the natural order of things, it is easiest to take this as an axiom. In fact, more than half the world's population believe it to be so.
But take a mathematical and scientific look and it is obviously random with no evidence of any outside directive. In fact, our universe does not allow for anything to enter or to leave. It is an isolated system, completely self-contained and its total energy is the same as it was a nanosecond after the Big Bang and will always be the same, even if protons started to decay after trillions of years, each spread far apart by the expansion of space.
Then there is entropy. A highly underrated physical law to the person on the street. To most, it is a synonym for disorder and decay. It is indeed, but it also drives and facilitates complexity. It allows for an isolated system such as the universe to consist of energy dense open subsystems with room to move, where it then acts like a power supply for amazing things to happen.
Take our sun; it is currently in quite an ordered state, but it's the slow death of our local star, the transition from order to disorder, which drives smaller systems of great complexity (life on earth comes to mind). We are powered by decay.
Regarding living systems, it's algorithms all the way down. We also have a host of other immutable laws and constants and weird uncertainties, but the big picture tells a story of a universe that is creative in and out of itself and by chance. If it was created with intent, it's definitely a set-and-forget project with no interference so far.
And that concludes my argument against a deterministic universe to those who are still reading. The distances between worlds is a result of us being tiny. And that stupid governor better known as the speed of light. And to make things even worse, The Hubble Constant where space is expanding and of course it doesn't end there because the expansion is actually accelerating!
I would really like to experience much more of the universe. The shit out there must be insane. Lifeforms adapted to completely different conditions. Even non-living systems. Imagine beholding the biggest star in the known universe?
How about visiting the relatively nearby Trappist system with its seven terrestrial planets. It's only 40 light-years away, yet impossible to ever reach. All sci-fi films and series employ the deus ex machina of the warp or jump drive. I don't see such technology to ever exist. Maybe in a century we can power a ship to 10% of the speed of light. That could come in handy within the confines of our own solar system, but would still take 400 years to get to Trappist. And if you get there, any communication with earth will have an 80 year delay.
But here I am, stuck as part of a very peculiar species. Evolved from the dirt of planet earth and adapted to it and it alone. I am grateful though for my human brain. It can take me anywhere when I'm in the right mood or engrossed in some hard speculative sci-fi.
Still a bummer to only experience an immeasurably small fraction of reality.
Mind blowing. Yet Something from nothing seems a little hard to swallow.
That is the big problem, right. No evidence for what caused it.
That is not true - E = MC^2
It was a massive conversion of energy into matter.
Atomic or nuclear explosions are the reverse of the big bang.
Atomic and nuclear explosions followed and governed by the law of thermodynamics - entropy will always increase in the physical world.
Thank you for your input @zeitlini. It's very hard to swallow. That's why it's open for discussion. I think my friend was just expressing his view to make clear his wonder at it all. Sometimes it's so mind blowing to really consider that. It feels good to talk about it. I don't think he was trying to start arguments over anything. And we'd both be receptive to any respectful conversation on varying viewpoints. That's what makes this existence even more beautiful. We all draw our own conclusions. We're so diverse. There's beauty in that. (That's how I see things.) I see good in us all. Your view is valid and I would never be so rude to tell you otherwise. It's personal.
So totally a bummer. I agree. We agree. It's real big-like, in'nit? Something I'll never fully understand and everything that I'm made up of and the reason I breathe. Yet, I'll forever be perplexed. And that's why we invoke a God. I get why anyone would. It's comforting. It's an answer to and excuse for intellectual laziness. It's just another thing that's entirely human of us to do. But - I rather like the questions and the wondering. I'd like the wandering even more. If we only ever could. But then, do we really want to do that? Hm. Might be the death of us, but I doubt that's really worth worrying about at this point since we seem to have already taken care of that problem. The human problem. Humans are a problem aren't we? What are we good for, afterall? Wondering...and then we die. Shall I share the song now? I think I will:
Totally not a cynic. That's a happy song.
And on listening (if you're still listening):
You see the problem here? If we're all working five jobs and raising little Einsteins and plugged into the matrix 24/7...how are we ever going to stop long enough to listen? We won't. So they do. I'm thankful for that. Not that hopeful, but you never know. And that's the point. We don't know -till we find out. Highly doubt we'll last long enough, but oh how amazing it all truly is. My awe is always followed by that feeling of angry sad at our damned and doomed reality, though. I miss Carl Sagan. He got it.
(Nice writing, btw. Totes worth my two, err, one cents. It makes cents. Your writing makes cents. Don't feel bad. That's a compliment.)
You get it. I wasn't trying to be clever. It was just a slightly bloated piece on what you are describing above. Never being able to know WTF is going on. The cosmic joke.
Elton John manages to elevate bleak futility into an ode to acceptance. Carl Sagan changed my world too.
That was genius gold and I smiled my first smile since last night. Just please note that it wasn't the resort man from the Virgin Islands who put me in this mood. I'm not petty like that. It's more a question of having been hit by a bus yesterday and while I'm lying in agony, a bee comes along and plants his ass in my nose.
I feel happy for anyone who comes along and views this post after all this. Turning out to be pretty funny. I think we've proven a point too. Ponder your existence and ye shall go mad. Join us? Anyone? That's when they all go running the other way.
I think its better for everyone if we focused on what we're good at. It is obviously not sciency stuff, even though my post was purely philosophical
Your post was wonderful. Wtf are doing taking it down? Criticism will come. It makes the post more interesting.
No one even cared to look at it and I'm in no mood for debates in the comment section. I'll restore it for what it's worth with some redactions. I made it clear that I'm unqualified to speak with authority, but the theories I invoked are the best ones we currently have, with the most convincing measurements and evidence.
There is also a lot of religious people on here who may take exception to the inherent nihilism of my post and that I could never reconcile this reality with the gods of men.
Have you ever heard the saying opinions are like assholes? They are, everyone has one and most of them stink. I think his points were valid. He was just rude about it. That last sentence you just wrote says it all, too. Any time you approach this subject there's going to be someone argue "scientifically" what's really just a ruse for their religious hope. I still liked your post. Do you know how many times I've second guessed myself from doing something because I was afraid it wasn't perfect? Way too many times. Don't be like that. You write better than I do and know more than I do too. I can tell you do.
You want me to delete my comments too? I can.
No, I'm just going through a rough patch. This article is about me being frustrated at being infinitesimally small and thwarted by the laws of the cosmos, preventing me from experiencing the whole thing. It was late and I was losing concentration and one paragraph came out a mess.
You communicated that very well. He was just looking to split hairs. Which is fine, but that wasn't your aim. I got that. I appreciated it for what it was. I'm no Stephen Hawking, either. None of us are. (And, fun fact, even Hawking says he doesn't quite know. He also says we're all doomed.) I think we plebeians should be allowed to discuss these things too. I've had an ivy league snot try to put me in my place on here too. Dealt with it all my life and probably always will considering I'm an autodidact and unashamedly so. Maybe that could be a subject of a post. Everyone blabbing about freedom on here. Freedom from class distinction in these subjects of debate, that would be revolutionary. But you see it follows...even here. Get back to work and wash my windshield, poor man. Don't let it get you down.
Have you ever had Spam? It looks like rancid bologna in a can with garbage juice inside.
We have a product called Bully-Beef which I think is corned beef, whatever that means. Not great. I don't know the product Spam, but it seems to be a pinker version of Bully-Beef. The latter is pretty awful, but nothing good ever came from a pink meat product...
Parts of me might take offense to that, but such thoughts remind me...it's prolly past my bedtime. Butts gonna be shitty. Bully-Beef is a pretty apt name in this case. "Hey bully, you gotta beef with me?" Naw, just some spam. Proceeds to comment - bloviate - opinions.
Hahaha, you are revealing more and more of your amazing wit.
I must reserve a little mystery. Gotta keep my ass covered. Wouldn't want you to see how smart it is.
Hahaha. No, actually. I don't think I have. This wasn't spam. He's a great writer and he let that goofy guy make him feel bad. Help me kick his butt lol.
How I feel about it. Goodnight, and good luck.
What the hell, actual decent music still being produced today? I gave up some years back. This actually says something and with surprising technical twists in the production.
A fascinating article!
.
done.
Obviously it was not copied - because it is pure conjecture and flawed - no sh*t here.
The use of entropy is pure conjecture and contradictory:
"Some would argue that entropy is proof that life is some kind of supernatural miracle (it is in a way, but not supernatural) because life apparently "beats" entropy as it becomes more ordered and complex over time. What they fail to take into account is that the universe is still very ordered with fairly low entropy at this juncture and with trillions of pockets of highly concentrated energy such as galaxies and the stars they contain. All of these can be seen as entropy engines and multipliers of probability."
The time scale of what is observable and what is measurable are so vastly different - light-years apart!
Life on earth and the corresponding "beating" entropy (over 100 years for humans and a few thousand years of recorded human history) cannot possibly be compared with "universe is still very ordered with fairly low entropy" which is calculated to be billions of light-years away from the "big-bang" which is a mathematical calculation based on a whole lot of assumptions.
Just like the flat earth theory - it could very well turn out to be miscalculated.
.
The reach of our (human race and civilizations) sensors were very limited in the large distances and in the miniature scales - in astronomy and in microscopic scales.
We did not discover the outer space, the deep oceans floors, the bacteria, the molecules until recent years - recent w.r.t. the light years in "big bang" scale.
That's why I used flat earth - and use calculate as in "miscalculated" to explain my point.
I challenge anyone to show me the numbers and calculations to back up any theory!
"big bang" was a theory based on very complex calculations published for peer review.
However, it remains a theory because there is no way to prove it or even validate it.
BTW - only mathematics and logic can be proven - not science.
I am a scientist, an engineer as well as someone who have analyzed and applied mathematics and logic in real world computer applications, so, I welcome any debate based on facts and calculations, mathematics and or logic.
People who proposed that illnesses were caused by invisible and tiny organisms have been similarly called: "ridiculous hypothesis of the currently mentality deranged " until they were proven to be correct years later and often after they were dead. So, don't be so quick to call anyone "ridiculous hypothesis of the currently mentality deranged as it could very well apply to you and I wrongly!"
I love your comments. And I think they're logical points to be made, but I still second @nonsqtr's assertion that flat earth theory is total horse spit.
Thanks for the comment - although you and @nonsqtr totally missed the point!
No one can or should judge from a different place and or time - That is my point.
To further expand on that point, space includes scale - we cannot and should not judge creatures of different scale especially a scale that is beyond our sensory range - ants and bacteria or molecules. Have you or @nonsqtr been able to examine the atom? the electron clouds in atoms? the strings in the string theory? ah ha, we have all seen animations of them but they were all made up and fictional - renditions by artists.
Without applying mathematics and logic to any theory, they are all theories - flat earth or big bang.
So, whether you support them or ridicule them, I'll say:
"Show me the money - mathematics and logic" behind or underneath your position or conclusion.
I am a scientists and I have used this approach to refute many claims, including "global warming" and have no one reply with facts, mathematics and logic.
So, flat earth was "fact" back in the days but we know now it is not true - because? We are in a different time and space!
If I were to tell people in the past (via time travel) about airplanes, electricity, mobile phones, microwave ovens, etc. - what will they say or do to me? ha?
No one can or should judge from a different place and or time - That is my point.
All the best!
I know. You noticed that I said "I see your view". I got it. My friend @nonsqtr was just having a hard time last night. Emotionally, and probably otherwise. If you'll read through his other posts, you'll see where he mentions some pretty serious health issues he deals with. I think he was hoping to approach this from a philosophical angle and was struggling to find the right words. He just wasn't in the right frame of mind for a debate, I think. (I'm sure he can speak for himself.) And yeah, you're totally right on your quibblings here. Or rather, it's I who has quibbled. (I just wanted to use that word, quibble, heh.) And honestly, as a scientist, you and I both know that you're more educated on the matter than the rest of us here. I, personally, don't try to argue things I'm not very educated on, and this is one. But we can all agree that it's a mind boggling subject of wonder for us. I think that's all he was trying to say.
I love debate and I love a good critic. I like that we can all chime in and have our say on anything and everything. But you get it. Play nice. We play nice over on this playground. Or you take your toys and you go home. Idk, more like we might throw rocks at you, I guess, hahaha. Anyway, thanks for the comment. You did give me a good angle to think on.
quib·ble
noun
"the only quibble about this book is the price"
synonyms: criticism, objection, complaint, protest, argument, exception, grumble, grouse, cavil;
More archaic
verb
No one can or should judge from a different place and or time:
Ah ... the amazing creature - ants:
Proverbs 6:6-8
Go to the ant, O sluggard, Observe her ways and be wise,
Proverbs 30:24
Four things are small on the earth, But they are exceedingly wise:
Proverbs 30:25
The ants are not a strong people, But they prepare their food in the summer;
"Ants: Creatures with “Character”
by F. Jaco Viljoen
A closer look at the world of ants, and the book of Proverbs, reveals a wealth of meaning you can apply to your life.
They are fascinating to watch while dragging an object many times their own body weight. Or they can be a terrible nuisance when you find a seemingly unending line of black insects trailing the kitchen counter. But most often, you walk right by them—destroying their highways, or even squashing them without noticing as they march down sidewalks.
While ants are everywhere, we generally think little of them. Yet the Bible tells us to study and learn from these insects: “Go to the ant…consider her ways, and be wise”"
source: https://rcg.org/youth/proverbs/0903-acwc.html
You know, about missing the point... I think sometimes we get so caught up in our arguing over details that we do miss the larger point. The point he was trying to make here. We live in a damn beautiful, strange and wonderful and magnificent, and a lot of other pretty words for something beyond our wildest imagination and comprehension - universe. Let's all just sit back and marvel at it and feel how small we really are...together. Let's all shut up, don't argue about it, just admire. I wish we did that more. There's a place for science. Reality, I get that. But I think we were more trying to have some hippie church over here.
@nonsqtr -
29 comments, 36 views, and 1 vote.
Need I say more?
If you really want to show the world more of your pettiness. You are not in on our joke. You are it.
Did you just wake up and we were the first thing on your mind? I know how many comments my friend and I made as we spammed my own article.
Go fix your website little man.
@nonsqtr - I have had it with your bad manners and disrespectful of disagreeing views.
Good bye! You are out of my view - go talk to yourself.
Sir you, may be correct in your assessment that he's been rude to you. He was, I agree. He has his reasons, I'm sure, as have you, for being rude to him. But you have to realize you approached him with rudeness. With insults. You struck a nerve and angered him. And if we're as you see us (lost in a fallen world) wouldn't that be our natural response to anger pointed towards us? It would be. It's a natural human reaction to feeling attacked. He felt attacked by you, because you did exactly that. Please listen to my video shared with you. I'm speaking from my heart. This sort of communication over religious belief truly breaks my heart. I've seen a lot. A lot more than you realize. I hate the fighting. You have valid points and wisdom to share and you're unable to communicate it this way. And so do we. We are people with hearts and emotions and whole entire life stories that you know nothing about. We all live on this earth together. This fallen world as you see it. Please consider what I've said. I'm not angry at you. I'm sad. I'm sad over this.
"peace and nihilism? What a joke!
They don't call it a circle jerk for nothing. We do what we want.
You have been muted.
Crocodile tears mate. Hail Satan
If not for me and my comments - will there be anyone reading this?
@intspekt - I would not put labels on anyone even when I disagree with an argument / theory - in a civil discourse, we could disagree without being disagreeable.
But regardless, I'll never put people down by ridiculing one's intelligence - even if it was factual.
We are not born with the same gifts or talents and some are smarter then others when they were born and some has their mental capacity diminished dues to circumstances whether they cause it themselves or not.
But, my basic point is:
Do not judge! and especially when time and space is so different.
I would not judge people in a different city, or in a different state ...
or even in the same city but under different times or circumstances.
So, saying what he said is a big no no in my book regardless who the insult is intended for.
So, he just became the 3rd person that I muted.
I realize that my sarcasm was unkind to you. But, I don't think it bears repeating, you entered into this conversation with rudeness and insults. I'll simply ask that you'd consider a more lighthearted approach next time. A more friendly approach. It would go such a long way. I think you were kind to me. I could tell you were being kind to me, and I appreciate that. I am sorry for any mocking comments I've made towards you. I did so in reaction to your antagonism. If you had not done that it all could've been averted. I really don't mind these kind of conversations when they're civil. And honestly, truly, I think in this instance you'd do well to reflect on your own behavior before admonishing others not to judge. I would've tried my best not to judge you. And I do always try with everyone I meet. You set me in a place of defense against you. I read and enjoyed my friends article purely from a philosophical standpoint and was not prepared to or interested in starting or responding to any pointed religious or scientific arguments about it. And if you noticed, even in his writing he wasn't swearing by or preaching a certain view. He was only stating the "secular" view that all non-religious people hold to be the most plausible. Notice I haven't said true I've said - the most plausible. That's all we know and all we can do. Now, if you believe you know more or better we'd surely be open to your convincing us of that. But when you're rattling off scientific facts to us at gunshot speed with precise aim at us who you view as your enemy it just doesn't work. And honestly, if you've noticed I stepped down immediately and I told you those are points where I'm not prepared to argue. I wasn't looking to argue at all. I don't wish to convince of any viewpoint of my own and the whole point of this post was not to preach any viewpoint at all. We were only expressing our particular views. And you're welcome to express your own so long as that's not expressed in the form of an attack. We may disagree on this, but I felt it came as an attack. I'm sorry if you meant well in what you were saying. I know you must mean well. And I am listening. Your comment about considering the ants, I did read and I will look at the source that you've quoted. There is much wisdom in the bible and I've not forgotten that. I wish this could've gone better. Maybe if we really could talk to each other in a disarming way it could. You have no idea who your approaching online or where they're coming from and we had no idea of who you were either. All we've seen is a seemingly very angry person out to disprove our stances presented. I hope I'm not coming across the wrong way. I really don't wish to fight. And I know my own shortcomings in these type of situations. I do resort to sarcasm, and I do apologize to you for that. It was wrong of me. I believe in this instance, as I've stated, my friend was simply in no mental state to take on an argument of the magnitude you've tried to present. And I believe his anger in general might in part be ascribed to being in a heavily medicated state that he requires for his existence. You're speaking to someone who is in a lot of chronic mental and physical pain. That's alters someone's behavior, and often in negative ways. We all would do good to empathize with one another and try to see the whole picture of one another's lives. That's so hard to do online. That's why I think you're probably a decent person, as I believe we try to be as well. Maybe some other time we can come back around and all try it again. I'd be open to that.
Thank you for the lengthy reply. However, none of my comments were directed or intended for you, @intspekt.
I have not taken offense from you and intended none at you.
Having said that, how have I been rude or insult? How have I attacked anyone?
My statement:
"Do not judge! and especially when time and space is so different.
I would not judge people in a different city, or in a different state ..."
Did I tell anyone to do that? If I had said that to anyone, then, the statement would have been self-contradictory.
Please do not take anything that I said as anything against you, @intspekt - none were.
I don't take offense at all. This can be a really testy subject. It's a very personal subject. I've meant no disrespect to you either. Take care. Please if you can, watch the video I posted. It says a lot of what I wish I could say. It's really good for showing the best approach to debate. I really learned a lot when I saw it. I do wish you the best. This got silly, and that's not what I would've wanted. But we don't know each other. I'm sure if we did this in person it probably would've gone a lot simpler. But that's what happens when you're behind a computer screen. It's good and bad.
@intspekt - I have gained nothing from reading this post and regret that I even commented on it. There is nothing to gain or lean from the OP in my assessment and explained in my other comment.
I will stop wasting more time here.
All the best! @intspekt
Understood. Same to you! No hard feelings at all. If you do wish to discuss these things with me in particular anywhere. Please don't fear commenting. I won't attack you and I will listen. I was raised Southern Baptist, grew up Pentecostal, ended up Charismatic non-denominational. I can name every TV preacher there is, likely every published christian author there is. I attended the largest mega-church in my state from it's founding to the demise of it's pastor to scandal. (A man whom I still believe is a very good and honorable person.) I've lived in your world and I respect where you're coming from. I respect what you believe. Please understand that. I'm not responsible for things other people say or think. I'm responsible for me. And wherever I went wrong today, I am sorry. I feel like every time we engage like this that we learn. We learn a better way to approach it the next time. Maybe, at the very least, we can both come away with that.
@intspekt - Since I have muted the OP, I cannot see your comments that is under his comment. Hence, I reply to you dirrectly and not under that thread.
And, no, I did not pay much attention to this post after being insulted by OP.
I can not see this:
"I've fully read your reply and respect your engagement. But you know what's sad about this way of communicating that…"
nor this:
"I was using humor, self-depreciating humor on myself to show you kindness and levity. You seem to have missed that ..."
Nor this:
"Sir you, may be correct in your assessment that he's been rude to you. He was, I agree. He has his reasons, I'm sure…"
@intspekt - This post and the author has great conflicts and contradictions - talking about a complicated science topic - time and space - yet provided no references or grounding in any scientific theory or facts - scenarios or history!
it is just a waste of time to deal with someone's rant and disrespect.
I understand that's your viewpoint. I respect your viewpoint, but...
He wasn't ranting. If you read his original post and would've understood his intent. He was coming from a positive angle intending to state his feeling of awe at this universe we live in. He was not intending to engage in the pointed scientific or religious argument that you are insisting on having. I speak with him personally, and as I am aware, he was in a perfectly fine and positive mood until you came here and provoked him with insulting comments. Your disagreement of viewpoint is not what's caused anger. It's your tone and your approach. I feel like I've stated this clearly, and I've even humbled myself to apologize to you for my own actions that were less than kind. You seem very angry at the fact which you presume - that we do not believe the same things that you do. I understand this. But it's unnecessary and completely unproductive for you to try to persuade us in this way - with anger - with argument. I'm asking that you speak calmly and engage in a discussion, not a fight. I don't wish to fight. And I believe my friend, when not provoked, doesn't wish to fight with anyone either. These kind of arguments are so petty on a grand scale. We can all do so much better.
I also don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you. I take this formal tone when I'm trying to deescalate a situation. It's the only way I know how. I know you're not a robot. I know you're not stupid. I don't think I know 'better' than you do. I simply believe we likely hold opposing views. That doesn't mean that we as people have to oppose one another. I don't wish to oppose you. And when you oppose me (only speaking for myself, no one else) it makes me sad. You've made me cry today over this. I want to connect with people, not find reasons to build walls and fences and barriers to divide and keep others out. This is my true heart. I hope I've somehow conveyed that to you.
"insulting comments" - what "insulting comments" - I did not to anyone.
calling people "small man" is a "insulting comment" but it was not I that said it.
I only disagree with the idea or theory or arguments. "insulting comments" are directed at a person, not at an idea.
"anger. It's your tone" - how is that?
I am not going to continue this and not here.
All the best!
Please do not take it as offence, but, I do not even want to read anything here any more and have not read all that was written.
Sorry ...