In today's sports you can have all the talent, but can still be hindered by situations. Look at Tom Brady, he got a start after Bledsoe got hurt, otherwise he was the back up. Now he is considered the greatest quarterback of all time. Then there is Jeff fisher.....
Here are some of his stats
Coached 22 years in NFl
Best season 13-3 he had 3 of them all with Tennessee
Over all winning percentage. .512 173 wins and 165 losses
I want to focus on his last years, or really the years I watched him. You start out with him getting Vince Young, and we all know how that turned out... A lot of people said it was young but not Fisher.... Lets see what you think after this, we will start with his next 4 quarterbacks. All of which made appearances as starters or a back up in this years playoffs, 3 of which are still in the Superbowl contention.
Sam Bradford, got hurt and had another surgery, but was a starter this year for the vikings, and now a backup.
Nick Foles, now the starter for the Eagles, and it is only after a bummer injury to possibly a top 3 quarterback in the league, but he played well, and showed he can be a starter and win playoff games.
Case Keenum, probably the biggest in your face to Jeff Fisher. This guy can straight ball this year. 11-3 as a starter 3547 yards 22 tds and o ya a average of 98.3 qb rating. He is also a man who has his priorities straight God, family, then football.
Then you have the luckiest one Goff, best thing that could of happend. Fisher getting fired, his crap 4-9 record team last year was a division winner with 11-4 and Had 3804 yards with 28 tds, and his offense lead the league in points. Huge turn around with the only difference being Fisher fired.
So I ask you did Vince Young really stink or is Fisher to blame. Stats don't lie and everyone he canned is no flying....
Sean McVay is the NFL coach of the year in my mind. The Rams were such a joke under Fisher, so laughable, and now look how awesome they are just a year later. I completely agree with you. I'm a die hard Bears fan (i know, right) and if I'm not mistaken he used to play for us in the 80's. I thank god that the Bears weren't considering him to replace Fox, it wouldve been such a Bears thing to do. Great post!
Man, I am glad you agree. I just can't believe he had a job this long, and it is crazy to see players that never really got a chance, throw the crap out of the ball.
On a side note, Marv Lewis kinda fits this mold too (although MUCH better coach than Fisher), how come he still has a job with Cincinatti for this long, they haven't really done anything the past 15 years.
They have made the playoffs, and then bam screw it up somehow. He has got a lot of bad apples on there for sure too.
Vince Young ended up on the Eagles for a bit and that guy was awful.
Like many of the QBs you mentioned, he is good because of the scheme. I can tell you that Nick Foles doesn't look great out there, but the play-calling and scheme from the coaching staff makes it so he can survive. Same goes for Bradford or Keenum.
Also, VY wasn't all that bright. I've always remembered 2 stories about him.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/609895-2011-nfl-draft-10-worst-wonderlic-scores-in-combine-history
"[Young] does believe he may have signed three pieces of paper that were notarized, but he was told they were banking instruments, that they needed his signature for some banking documents,'' Dolezal said.
The guy was a great college QB, but just didn't have what it took for the mental part of the game in the NFL.
As for Jeff Fisher, I haven't seen enough of his coaching career first hand to give a good perspective, but the podcasts I listen to (specifically Bill Simmons) really think the guy is an awful coach as well.
Quote from this article: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-adviser-says-vince-young-needed-300k-loan-for-birthday-party/
Ya scheme is everything, and if the coach isn't behind you, good luck. I would agree with foles, but Keenum is making good throws.
Young was a good QB. He won a lot of games and played well before Fisher designed the offense for him to fail. There are plenty of people who are overall dumb but good at doing a certain thing. Young proved what a competitor he was too.
And its BS people say that about him in Philly. I remember him having one good game, one bad game, and one ok game, but people who dont like him just want to remember it as him sucking when really he was ok overall. VY and Tebow got railroaded like no two QBs Ive ever seen.
I would agree with you that Jeff Fisher didn't exactly help him, but both he and Tebow were not necessarily good enough to be starters. As a result, these fall into maybe LOW end starters or a back-up QB.
When you look at back-up QBs in the NFL, there are two possible players:
Young / Tebow would fall into that last bucket and GMs doesn't didn't see the risk v reward.... plus the level of publicity both pulled, especially after their college days.
Don't get me wrong, I think both were phenomenal talents in their youth and had an other-worldly instinct for winning. Tebow even showed this in brief stints as a prob, but it all ultimately comes down to technique. These guys just didn't have it.
I am always open to a good sports debate!
You definitely make so good points, and sorry if I seemed defensive but I am just a big Vince Young fan and thought he got a raw deal. Im not saying VY or Tebow wouldve ever ended up being elite QBs, but I thought they were both definitely good enough to start for at least a few teams (especially Vince).
Honestly I think what hurt their careers more than anything was their unconventional styles (and the amount of attention Tebow drew didnt help either). VY had an unorthodox throwing motion, but I did believe he was fairly accurate. Mariota (the Titans current QB) actually reminds me of him in ways. I do think Young was best when the offense was kept simple, but IDK if thats due to a lack of intelligence or his playing style, which involves running around making plays without over thinking it.
Imagine him and CJ2K running the read option though.
I just think it was wrong that they were both out of the league so fast. I see more conventional QBs who arent very good at all who still have jobs like 10 years later and even end up getting to play from time to time, and I think that VY was clearly better than them. Like Matt Cassel still has a job, which baffles me, and even Dan Orlovsky of the 0-16 Lions from 2008.
Also on a Tebow note he had a winning record, and got bounced for people who never won games. I played sports all my life, and was better than a lot of people I played, but some people I played just knew how to win.
Agreed. Tebow really was someone who could just win even if he wasn't that great from a technical QB sense. Ultimately, teams just didn't want the media presence that came with him. Same goes for Colin Kaepernick now. That guy is WAY better than a lot of the crap quarterbacks that started this past year.
Ya, but after working to become a pocket passer, he was broken. He was not the same guy that had the playoff run. He looked awful and was not winning. Tebow looked awful and was wining.
Fisher is not the “worst” head coach. He is the most mediocre head coach of all time. 8-8 seasons like you would be believe. That being said he is still not good.
I hear mediocre is not a good fortune.
Excellent article, and youre right on the money @bigram13. Fisher was the ultimate quarterback saboteur. Young was offensive rookie of the year, and then cause Fisher didnt want him, he set out to sabotage him, and I think it cost the Titans a Super Bowl in 2008.
Also I remember thinking Case Keenum had potential as an NFL QB, that is until last year when he was playing under Fisher. And Goff looked even worse last year. It was so bad that I heard a lot of NFL GMs wouldnt trade anything about a 5th rd pick for him last off season.
And one year later Keenum and Goff have both had excellent years. Im so glad they both got away from Fisher before he drove them out of the league. Fisher could have been a good coach too if he wasnt such a control freak and didnt try to sabotage QBs for personal reasons.
He I think has a pride issue, and wanted all the attention.
I agree with you. More specifically, (even when he was having success) I always thought he was a big time control freak. Like he didnt want a team full of playmakers. He always wanted to have his hand in it every play. It was like he didnt even want too great of a WR. I think it cost him a SB in 2008 too (that and his devotion to Kerry Collins).
Ya he never let his guys talk much to the media either. You can 't even name many big players that played for him. Never developed any offense
Nah man, its not true he was bad but HE DRAFTED PRESENT RAMS BALLERS!!! Goff, Gurley, Donald
I wouldnt give him any credit for Goff for sure. Jeffy was the kind of guy who made it known when the front office drafted a player he didnt want, and in return he would try to sabotage that player's career. He did that to Goff and Vince Young. Im not saying he didnt have some strengths as a coach (more so earlier in his coaching career), but he had some real faults too.
Ya he was a terrible offensive coach. He benched Goff and made it know it was not his guy.
Great perspective. Jared Goff indeed had a huge turn around after Fisher was terminated. Another star that comes to mind, though, would be Todd Gurley. After such a great rookie year, his sophomore season was awful. It seems once he was saturated with Fisher's system, his ability to make plays was diminished. Awesome to see what he, along with Goff, were able to do this year under McVay.