I don't need a lecture and dumbed-down simplistic metaphors to understand this issue.
I understand this issue quite well.
DPOS is a governance structure. If you make the laws, it's pretty hard to prove that you are breaking the law, because obviously you're the one making them. Theft is defined by the governance structure that applies.
Clearly, you do not accept the sovereignty of Steem and you believe that the laws of another nation apply in this case. Perhaps this is because you are an imperialist pig. Perhaps it's because Steem is a centralized piece of shit and Steemit Inc is clearly in violation of securities law.
Consider that I understand this issue better than you do,
and I will do the same.
The thing to prove for the thought exercise to work is whether the same code applied to a new asset is theft.
But I agree there never was an "airdrop" beyond the term used in the announcement of hive's launch. The ledger backs there was no airdrop, only past wallet transactions. That could have been handled better but would have required more time and been a much more processing intense operation at the time of actual forking.
Why does everyone think this was an existing asset?
Because they kept the same branding "Steem"?
Every hardfork is a new asset.
It's very clear.
New code; new asset.
If this was not the case the Hive would also not be a "new asset", which it "obviously" is.
Think about the difference between Steem and Hive.
Calling Steem HF23 an "old asset" and Hive HF23 a "new asset" is ridiculous.
If anything, Steem is the new asset and Hive is the old asset.
Hive has 90%+ of the Layer 0 intact.
Think about it.
Why does everyone think this was an existing asset?
Because the people don’t really give much priority to understanding the nitty-gritty of backends. They just see that token is same in their wallet and on exchanges. Didn’t require to be listed again.
If analysed purely on the technicalities, then yes I totally agree. Blocktrades pre-hive post about forks also backs it. In a future with blockchain specialized courts this may be an important thing, but right now I don’t see any prosecutor reject the case because the understanding isn’t that far yet.
Also, while I understand the devil’s advocate part, is this really how we want to mainstream? I know it’s not how I imagine mainstraiming will (ever) happen.
Well what I actually think is that we WILL be able to have our cake and eat it too. We can "steal funds" and when a centralized attacker "steals funds" in return we can take them to court and win and they can't take us to court. Only centralized authorities can be regulated. And they will be. That's the crazy part.
It would appear you understand DPOS, great. Unfortunately code is only law until it meets a real judge in the real world at which point it most certainly is not law.
And what will you say when a crypto city-state pops up?
What will you say when Hive owns physical land and makes the laws?
You seem blind to where this is going.
The coming storm is going to knock most people on their ass.
Are you prepared for water shortage, famine, and war?
I'm not but I'm trying.
@brianoflondon & I actually live in a country that was (re)created by an idea and a group of people (many still alive) who fought to achieve it against the greatest of odds and at huge cost. Indeed it is considered by many to be miracle.
You have no idea what it takes to achieve sovereignty - it is extremely difficult and rarely comes without great bloodshed.
Neither Hive nor any other crypto project has even a fraction of the attributes of a sovereign entity.
If a crypto city-state pops up it will likely be very quickly crushed by whatever country's territory it pops up in.
A judge in what country?
These people are mafia.
Do you know how the mafia works?
Judges get bought.
Do you think Justin Sun gives a shit if Steemit Inc gets sued into bankruptcy?
He's hiding behind a Limited Liability Corporation.
Steemit Inc is broke and doesn't have any money.
If you win in court he doesn't owe dollars; he owes Steem.
Watch him dump Steem to sub one cent and then claim Steemit Inc was hacked and has $0.
He'll declare bankruptcy and get away scot free.
You guys don't know what the fuck you're talking about and this strategy is shit and can only hurt Hive.
You clearly don't even understand the difference between a criminal case (=jail) and a civil case (=$).
A LLC is no protection in a criminal conspiracy theft case.
A Judge in the US or UK cannot be bought by Justin Sun, a Chinese national, especially in such a clear cut theft case and especially in the current international environment.
I don't need a lecture and dumbed-down simplistic metaphors to understand this issue.
I understand this issue quite well.
DPOS is a governance structure. If you make the laws, it's pretty hard to prove that you are breaking the law, because obviously you're the one making them. Theft is defined by the governance structure that applies.
Clearly, you do not accept the sovereignty of Steem and you believe that the laws of another nation apply in this case. Perhaps this is because you are an imperialist pig. Perhaps it's because Steem is a centralized piece of shit and Steemit Inc is clearly in violation of securities law.
Consider that I understand this issue better than you do,
and I will do the same.
This is simply theft of an existing asset.
The thing to prove for the thought exercise to work is whether the same code applied to a new asset is theft.
But I agree there never was an "airdrop" beyond the term used in the announcement of hive's launch. The ledger backs there was no airdrop, only past wallet transactions. That could have been handled better but would have required more time and been a much more processing intense operation at the time of actual forking.
Why does everyone think this was an existing asset?
Because they kept the same branding "Steem"?
Every hardfork is a new asset.
It's very clear.
New code; new asset.
If this was not the case the Hive would also not be a "new asset", which it "obviously" is.
Think about the difference between Steem and Hive.
Calling Steem HF23 an "old asset" and Hive HF23 a "new asset" is ridiculous.
If anything, Steem is the new asset and Hive is the old asset.
Hive has 90%+ of the Layer 0 intact.
Think about it.
Because the people don’t really give much priority to understanding the nitty-gritty of backends. They just see that token is same in their wallet and on exchanges. Didn’t require to be listed again.
If analysed purely on the technicalities, then yes I totally agree. Blocktrades pre-hive post about forks also backs it. In a future with blockchain specialized courts this may be an important thing, but right now I don’t see any prosecutor reject the case because the understanding isn’t that far yet.
Also, while I understand the devil’s advocate part, is this really how we want to mainstream? I know it’s not how I imagine mainstraiming will (ever) happen.
Well what I actually think is that we WILL be able to have our cake and eat it too. We can "steal funds" and when a centralized attacker "steals funds" in return we can take them to court and win and they can't take us to court. Only centralized authorities can be regulated. And they will be. That's the crazy part.
It would appear you understand DPOS, great. Unfortunately code is only law until it meets a real judge in the real world at which point it most certainly is not law.
Steem and Hive aren't sovereign. Sorry.
And what will you say when a crypto city-state pops up?
What will you say when Hive owns physical land and makes the laws?
You seem blind to where this is going.
The coming storm is going to knock most people on their ass.
Are you prepared for water shortage, famine, and war?
I'm not but I'm trying.
@brianoflondon & I actually live in a country that was (re)created by an idea and a group of people (many still alive) who fought to achieve it against the greatest of odds and at huge cost. Indeed it is considered by many to be miracle.
You have no idea what it takes to achieve sovereignty - it is extremely difficult and rarely comes without great bloodshed.
Neither Hive nor any other crypto project has even a fraction of the attributes of a sovereign entity.
If a crypto city-state pops up it will likely be very quickly crushed by whatever country's territory it pops up in.
A judge in what country?
These people are mafia.
Do you know how the mafia works?
Judges get bought.
Do you think Justin Sun gives a shit if Steemit Inc gets sued into bankruptcy?
He's hiding behind a Limited Liability Corporation.
Steemit Inc is broke and doesn't have any money.
If you win in court he doesn't owe dollars; he owes Steem.
Watch him dump Steem to sub one cent and then claim Steemit Inc was hacked and has $0.
He'll declare bankruptcy and get away scot free.
You guys don't know what the fuck you're talking about and this strategy is shit and can only hurt Hive.
TILTED!
Apologies.
You clearly don't even understand the difference between a criminal case (=jail) and a civil case (=$).
A LLC is no protection in a criminal conspiracy theft case.
A Judge in the US or UK cannot be bought by Justin Sun, a Chinese national, especially in such a clear cut theft case and especially in the current international environment.